Adjusting aim when down on the shot without losing accuracy in alignment

Oikawa

Member
In a way a lot of us probably do a little of this 're-adjusting' without even knowing it. Small micro moves are one thing, big motions are a whole different proposition
Yes, what I am proposing lets you do even those bigger motions with no loss in accuracy, as long as you ensure that the important parts are aligned once you get ready to shoot (shot image, chin and head rotation), and feel comfortable in your stance and stroke. It simplifies things by not having to be super precise about your backhand, legs, torso etc.
 

Oikawa

Member
Didn't have time to read this and give it justice, but I think you have to have your chin on the cue for this to work. Is that right? Most don't play that way.
Yes, exactly. Consistent cue placement on the chin and consistent head rotation relative to the cue. It won't work without those.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes, what I am proposing lets you do even those bigger motions with no loss in accuracy, as long as you ensure that the important parts are aligned once you get ready to shoot (shot image, chin and head rotation), and feel comfortable in your stance and stroke. It simplifies things by not having to be super precise about your backhand, legs, torso etc.
I guess it's good that it works for you. I would never, ever suggest to a beginner to do all of their alignment and fiddling while already in shooting position.

Also, after practice, you don't have to be "super precise about your backhand, legs, torso etc." The movements and alignment happen automatically as you learn to play.

As you mentioned, this thread is in the wrong forum
 

Oikawa

Member
I guess it's good that it works for you. I would never, ever suggest to a beginner to do all of their alignment and fiddling while already in shooting position.

Also, after practice, you don't have to be "super precise about your backhand, legs, torso etc." The movements and alignment happen automatically as you learn to play.

As you mentioned, this thread is in the wrong forum
I agree with you. Wouldn't suggest this to a beginner. And even for non-beginners i'd be cautious as well, but worth trying if you know what you are doing and find it useful somehow. For me, it's too easy for something to go wrong, especially under pressure, using the traditional method in tougher pots. But I know this isn't a proof of my method being better, it merely reflects my own weaknesses and lack of experience/knowledge in using the traditional method at a high level of accuracy.

What would be the correct forum? And can someone move it there (if a mod is reading this)
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... What would be the correct forum? And can someone move it there (if a mod is reading this)
I suppose you could put it in the "Ask an Instructor" forum. Or even the main forum. But if you put it in the main forum, be very, very careful to not say it has anything to do with aiming.
 

Oikawa

Member
I suppose you could put it in the "Ask an Instructor" forum. Or even the main forum. But if you put it in the main forum, be very, very careful to not say it has anything to do with aiming.
Alright. A mod can move this if they want to, I assume I don't have permissions to do so myself.

Although, I'm not sure if it belongs here to not, it's in a gray area maybe. It doesn't directly talk about an aiming method, but it's still about doing your aiming method, whatever it is, in a different part of your shot process than where it is typically done. So maybe it still belongs here. Idk :)
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
One can use the bridge hand loop as the same kind of aimer, the advantage being it's far closer to the CB than the stroke hand.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think no one gets down along exactly the right line initially. I teach small adjustments in place. I teach to do them consciously.

You see a lot of players who do little twitchy things during the shot, like move their bridge mid-stroke or swerve the stick to the outside because they routinely aim too full. Their arm/hand has learned what's needed even though the idiot upstairs is oblivious. I think doing the small adjustments consciously keeps them out of the hands of the hands and promotes a straight, stable stroke.

Large adjustments, you better get back up.
Yes. Small adj are likely no more than 1mm to 2mm. Does that sound about right?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes. Small adj are likely no more than 1mm to 2mm. Does that sound about right?
Something like that. It might be a different line, different side spin, different follow/draw.

I suspect much larger alignment adjustments occur between the time the bridge hand first touches the cloth and the time the tip is first brought up to the "set" or "close address" position.
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
Something like that. It might be a different line, different side spin, different follow/draw.

I suspect much larger alignment adjustments occur between the time the bridge hand first touches the cloth and the time the tip is first brought up to the "set" or "close address" position.
I agree with you. Sometimes the adjustments come sooner than others.
 

Thresh

Active member
Yes, what I am proposing lets you do even those bigger motions with no loss in accuracy, as long as you ensure that the important parts are aligned once you get ready to shoot (shot image, chin and head rotation), and feel comfortable in your stance and stroke. It simplifies things by not having to be super precise about your backhand, legs, torso etc.
It would seem bridge length would play an important role. Longer the bridge, the more distance the backhand movements effect the tip "movement".

Small adjustments seem fine, natural.

Example; dead straight long stop shot. Hard to drop perfectly in line when getting down.

I think what is very important here is a cue tip near the cue ball, very long, 3-5 second pause no movement. If this alignment doesn't appear perfect, stand up (very difficult). I think during this pause your back hand might drift slightly to benefit your aim, subconsciously... Add it is meant to be.

Just my rant.
 

Oikawa

Member
It would seem bridge length would play an important role. Longer the bridge, the more distance the backhand movements effect the tip "movement".

Small adjustments seem fine, natural.

Example; dead straight long stop shot. Hard to drop perfectly in line when getting down.

I think what is very important here is a cue tip near the cue ball, very long, 3-5 second pause no movement. If this alignment doesn't appear perfect, stand up (very difficult). I think during this pause your back hand might drift slightly to benefit your aim, subconsciously... Add it is meant to be.

Just my rant.
Bridge length or head distance from the shot doesn't matter for this method to work. If you move your head 1cm to the left, it is indeed a bigger change to the shot line the closer your head is to the bridge or the shorter the bridge is, but if your cue touches your chin as is necessary for the method to work, the cue will "follow" wherever your head moves sideways by that same amount, always being on the line. Or in other words, you don't place the backhand on line yourself, the backhand position follows from head position due to keeping your cue touching it.

This process of having your backhand be automatically aligned to whar you see is the main benefit I have for this method. I personally find that especially for longer shots, even a slight error in backhand position makes you miss, and removing that possibility helps me be a more consistent shotmaker. It has it's weaknesses when heavily elevated (to keep the right head angle isn't as trivial), but it's possible to overcome those with practice. And heavy elevation is tough no matter the method.

If you use BHE/FHE, then the bridge length/head distance from shot does matter to have the right amount of compensation for english, but that is another issue entirely, and is the same whether you use this method or not.
 
Last edited:

Oikawa

Member
Slight update to this: I gave one more attempt at the "normal way" of aligning yourself (pick shot image when up, fall straight into line, stay completely still), figured out a few tricks and things to help me do it more consistently and now switched to using that for 99.9% of shots, instead of aiming while down. The only exception are jump shots, but maybe I'll switch that over too some day if I figure out a more consistent way.

This doesn't really invalidate any of my points, since I didn't claim that the aim-when-down method would be better if you are able to do the normal way well enough, which now clicked for me, and didn't before.

And I wouldn't say it was a complete waste for me, since I'm still a relatively new player (3 years), the journey of using both methods and and being able to play at a relatively good level (600-650 fargo) while aiming down definitely taught me a lot about how different parts of the body affect your consistency, and gave me a lot of knowledge about how and why various things work or don't. And I wasn't hitting a plateau either, I've been slowly but steadily improving, I just immediately found the whole "normal" process much faster, easier AND more accurate for most shots, when a few things finally clicked, and I figured out how to drop down into the shot consistently enough to not cause misses due to that if done properly.

So, all in all, just like I said originally, good gimmick if all else fails for you, but now I can say with even more confidence that you can and should do it the normal way, and I'm glad to have figured it out now instead of later, since this has improved my game a lot in just a few days. My previous record of consequent 9-ball break-and-runs in practice (no BIH or anything, if no ball drops in break the streak ends, so real deal) was 4 racks (once), and now I did a 6-pack which just felt overall more effortless than before. My shot selection and CB control is obviously the same, but being able to pot those semi tough cuts much more consistently was enough to get an immediate noticable result.

So, if someone has the same issue of not being able to get good results the normal way, get a coach. If it doesn't click for you and you know it's not just that you haven't put in the time with their suggestions, get another coach. I happened to figure this out on my own but you don't have to wait for that moment and surely a good coach or a few will be able to guide you to that same progression much faster and with less risk of incorporating suboptimal habits.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bbb

DeadStick

student of the game
Gold Member
Silver Member
Slight update to this: I gave one more attempt at the "normal way" of aligning yourself (pick shot image when up, fall straight into line, stay completely still), figured out a few tricks and things to help me do it more consistently and now switched to using that for 99.9% of shots, instead of aiming while down. The only exception are jump shots, but maybe I'll switch that over too some day if I figure out a more consistent way.

This doesn't really invalidate any of my points, since I didn't claim that the aim-when-down method would be better if you are able to do the normal way well enough, which now clicked for me, and didn't before.

And I wouldn't say it was a complete waste for me, since I'm still a relatively new player (3 years), the journey of using both methods and and being able to play at a relatively good level (600-650 fargo) while aiming down definitely taught me a lot about how different parts of the body affect your consistency, and gave me a lot of knowledge about how and why various things work or don't. And I wasn't hitting a plateau either, I've been slowly but steadily improving, I just immediately found the whole "normal" process much faster, easier AND more accurate for most shots, when a few things finally clicked, and I figured out how to drop down into the shot consistently enough to not cause misses due to that if done properly.

So, all in all, just like I said originally, good gimmick if all else fails for you, but now I can say with even more confidence that you can and should do it the normal way, and I'm glad to have figured it out now instead of later, since this has improved my game a lot in just a few days. My previous record of consequent 9-ball break-and-runs in practice (no BIH or anything, if no ball drops in break the streak ends, so real deal) was 4 racks (once), and now I did a 6-pack which just felt overall more effortless than before. My shot selection and CB control is obviously the same, but being able to pot those semi tough cuts much more consistently was enough to get an immediate noticable result.

So, if someone has the same issue of not being able to get good results the normal way, get a coach. If it doesn't click for you and you know it's not just that you haven't put in the time with their suggestions, get another coach. I happened to figure this out on my own but you don't have to wait for that moment and surely a good coach or a few will be able to guide you to that same progression much faster and with less risk of incorporating suboptimal habits.
You got to a 650 FR and ability to run 6 racks of 9-ball in 3 years? No other cuesports or banging around on a table before that?

If so, that’s quite an accomplishment. How old are you, and how many hours per day did you put in?
 

Oikawa

Member
You got to a 650 FR and ability to run 6 racks of 9-ball in 3 years? No other cuesports or banging around on a table before that?

If so, that’s quite an accomplishment. How old are you, and how many hours per day did you put in?
600-650 is an estimation, I don't have a real FR since I don't play in any big enough tourmaments that sumbit to Fargo. Could be 550, could be 700, I have no idea. That 600-650 comes from how well I do in a certain progressive rating drill (think it was by Dr. Dave?), and my runout percentages reflected against what I've seen people talk about online.

And that 6-pack was an one-off thing, I don't think I'd get it again now even if I tried for 50 hours in a row :) Although I do have a pretty strong and refined break on the table I always practice on. Leaves an easy layout most of the time. I'd say my current strength is being consistent at the super routine runouts (no clusters, 5-7 balls left on the table, easy shot on the first ball), e.g. I almost never miss the "easy" shots, but the semi tough shots that pros still make 90%+ of the time I might only make 50-60%.

I am in my early 20s, and practice around 4-6h a day on average. Was a quite weak player for a few years at the start but refining my technique to be compact and "robotic" helped a lot. I did play 8-ball pool and other pool video games before those 3 years, quite a lot, for many years, so maybe that helped a little in the brainy parts of the game, real pool is physical so can't really get a big benefit from those games.
 
Last edited:

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
600-650 is an estimation, I don't have a real FR since I don't play in any big enough tourmaments that sumbit to Fargo. Could be 550, could be 700, I have no idea. That 600-650 comes from how well I do in a certain progressive rating drill (think it was by Dr. Dave?), and my runout percentages reflected against what I've seen people talk about online.

And that 6-pack was an one-off thing, I don't think I'd get it again now even if I tried for 50 hours in a row :) Although I do have a pretty strong and refined break on the table I always practice on. Leaves an easy layout most of the time. I'd say my current strength is being consistent at the super routine runouts (no clusters, 5-7 balls left on the table, easy shot on the first ball), e.g. I almost never miss the "easy" shots, but the semi tough shots that pros still make 90%+ of the time I might only make 50-60%.

I am in my early 20s, and practice around 4-6h a day on average. Was a quite weak player for a few years at the start but refining my technique to be compact and "robotic" helped a lot. I did play 8-ball pool and other pool video games before those 3 years, quite a lot, for many years, so maybe that helped a little in the brainy parts of the game, real pool is physical so can't really get a big benefit from those games.
That's great progress. What size table are you playing on? That makes a big difference - bar box vs 9 foot, etc..
 
Top