Advice: Speed Kills

CTYankee

CTYankee

Mark Twain's Table
Silver Member
Let me qualify my question with my pool "status": I have only been playing regularly for about six months. I play and practice every day, and have seen some great improvement in that time. I am able to consistently park whitey on the break... can consistently pocket balls at medium power or less. Which leads me to my problem, despite all my practice, I have made very little progress on shots where power is needed. What are some of the common mistakes that are made when hitting with power? I feel like my stroke is the same when a put some "juice" on the ball, but I am obviously doing something differently as I am so inconsistent when I put muscle into it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Your stroke is more than likely not mechanically sound enough to be accurate when you add power. Shooting harder magnifies stroke flaws; whereas on a soft shot you might (just for example) correct a funny alignment problem by using some amount of elbow movement to keep the cue moving straight, on a hard shot your elbow has much less time to make this correction. At some speed threshold, you are beyond the limits of your coordination to make the stroke work like it does at slower speed.

The fix is to see an instructor about building a body position and cueing motion that don't require any feats of coordination to deliver the cue straight and accurately. A good alignment allows for a simple and efficient motion, and a simple motion will work equally well at slow and fast speeds. Also, the amount of power available to you, accuracy aside, will increase, since your new stroke will not involve muscles working against each other, but rather a fluid and powerful muscle contraction.

See a BCA instructor. They're all trained in how to identify and correct the flaws in your stroke. It's the shortest path to better accuracy, power, and consistency.

-Andrew
 
You also have to be aware that when you hit the balls harder the effects of cue ball deflection, throw, and swerve are greatly amplified. If you aren't familiar with these different effects you might want to do some research on them.
 
Caromsoft said:
You also have to be aware that when you hit the balls harder the effects of cue ball deflection, throw, and swerve are greatly amplified. If you aren't familiar with these different effects you might want to do some research on them.
Click to expand...

Well, really only one out of three. Deflection gets MUCH more noticeable the harder you hit the ball, but throw is greatly reduced, and any swerve will occur later with the harder hit, meaning it effects the CB's hit on the OB less.

-Andrew
 
While I'm sure an instructor could get you figured out in a matter of minutes, I think I'd recommend trying to figure this one out on your own first. The ability to find and correct problems yourself is something that, if developed, will bring you great satisfaction and confidence in your game. It would be different if you were never able to deliver the cue accurately under any circumstances, but the fact that you are able to squat your rock with some consistency is proof that you are, at least occasionally, capable of delivering a powerful and accurate stroke.

I would start by doing some more investigative work to narrow down the problem area: Is it only cut shots that cause problems, or do you have difficulty with straight-in's as well? If you do have problems with straight-in's, do you seem to always miss them on the same side of the pocket? Does it matter if you're applying english to the cueball, and, if so, what kind of english causes the worst inaccuracies? Also, the employment of a video camera for some comparative analysis could prove to be invaluable.

Even if you are not able to fix the problem yourself, at least you will have learned something about your mechanics, and, should you choose to speak to an instructor about your problem, you will be able to do so in very specific terms.

Good luck,
Aaron
 
CTYankee said:
Let me qualify my question with my pool "status": I have only been playing regularly for about six months. I play and practice every day, and have seen some great improvement in that time. I am able to consistently park whitey on the break... can consistently pocket balls at medium power or less. Which leads me to my problem, despite all my practice, I have made very little progress on shots where power is needed. What are some of the common mistakes that are made when hitting with power? I feel like my stroke is the same when a put some "juice" on the ball, but I am obviously doing something differently as I am so inconsistent when I put muscle into it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...


Yes, I have the same problem, although I am getting better!

Try this: if you have some extra peices of felt from your table, cut out some squares mesuring about 1x1 inch. Set up a shot that is difficult for you, place the felt under the balls so it will mark your place. Shoot the shot at hard, medium, and slow speed. Keep doing this shot until you have it down. The felt is there to mark where your balls were, so you can set up the shot exactly how it was before. Try tons of different shots with very fast speed, you will get a feel for it, and eventually you will adjust to those shots and incorporate them into your game! If you dont have felt, buy some at the store, its really cheap.

Good Luck to you!
 
Kyzyl said:
Yes, I have the same problem, although I am getting better!

Try this: if you have some extra peices of felt from your table, cut out some squares mesuring about 1x1 inch. Set up a shot that is difficult for you, place the felt under the balls so it will mark your place. Shoot the shot at hard, medium, and slow speed. Keep doing this shot until you have it down. The felt is there to mark where your balls were, so you can set up the shot exactly how it was before. Try tons of different shots with very fast speed, you will get a feel for it, and eventually you will adjust to those shots and incorporate them into your game! If you dont have felt, buy some at the store, its really cheap.

Good Luck to you!
Click to expand...
Instead of felt, you can use hole reinforcers to mark the position of the ball(s)... hole reinforcers are commonly used in 3-ring binders... I know... something archaic... but you should still be able to find 'em in a dime store.... what's that?... what's a dime store????... I give up. :D
 
I would say, try to focus on the CB and try to play soft. If you pot the ball, try to put a bit more power on your shot, etc.
 
cigardave said:
Instead of felt, you can use hole reinforcers to mark the position of the ball(s)... hole reinforcers are commonly used in 3-ring binders... I know... something archaic... but you should still be able to find 'em in a dime store.... what's that?... what's a dime store????... I give up. :D
Click to expand...


Yea, I've heard of doing that, but do you think the plastic would cause the cue ball to slip?? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I just had some extra felt lying all over the house.
 
Thanks for all the replies... the ideas sound good, and I will add them all to my practice routine.
 
You probably don't need all the power you are trying to put into the shot. You just need a consistent, smooth, full stroke. Also, the spin you use is worthless without friction. Think about it. If there were no friction, it wouldn't matter how much spin you put on the ball. If you put too much momentum into the ball trying to get more spin, it will want to stay straighter instead of letting the spin do it's job because of friction with the OB and the cloth and the rails. A slower, smoother, straighter stroke will allow you to get more spin on the balls without putting too much momentum. It will also lead to more consistency in your mechanics, allowing for better speed control.

Simply practice shots where your stroke is consistent ALL the way through your follow through, and use a complete follow through. If you get in this habit, the rest of your game will tend to correct itself. You can never improve if your approach isn't consistent.

That said, what you do before your shot and after your shot matter not 1 bit in this regard. It's true. Having fundamentally perfect mechanics and routine, staying dead still until the ball is pocketed, etc. will improve your form. However, it is a long arduous road for most players to correct the habits they've formed from the very first time they've held a cue. You can walk this road if you want, but just keep in mind during the process that your #1 stroke priority is to keep your approach consistent throughout the time where the tip is in contact with the object ball.

That said, pay a little more attention to the patterns pros select ant the speed they use for each shot. Rarely do they put themselves in the positions you describe. Granted, these situations are not always avoidable, but I bet you that you can improve your game at least 50% without even touching your stroke. Not saying you should neglect it at all, as a consistent stroke is generally what separates pro from amateur, but keep in mind that you need to always be doing encouraging things with your game in order to reap the benefits of your success.
 
Aaron_S said:
While I'm sure an instructor could get you figured out in a matter of minutes, I think I'd recommend trying to figure this one out on your own first. The ability to find and correct problems yourself is something that, if developed, will bring you great satisfaction and confidence in your game. It would be different if you were never able to deliver the cue accurately under any circumstances, but the fact that you are able to squat your rock with some consistency is proof that you are, at least occasionally, capable of delivering a powerful and accurate stroke.

I would start by doing some more investigative work to narrow down the problem area: Is it only cut shots that cause problems, or do you have difficulty with straight-in's as well? If you do have problems with straight-in's, do you seem to always miss them on the same side of the pocket? Does it matter if you're applying english to the cueball, and, if so, what kind of english causes the worst inaccuracies? Also, the employment of a video camera for some comparative analysis could prove to be invaluable.

Even if you are not able to fix the problem yourself, at least you will have learned something about your mechanics, and, should you choose to speak to an instructor about your problem, you will be able to do so in very specific terms.

Good luck,
Aaron
Click to expand...

I think the first thing he should do is see someone like Mark Wilson. In less than 10 minutes he had identified several problems in my stroke and devised a drill to correct the stroke. He told me to give his suggestions 7-10 days to kick in, and I'd see a big improvement. How right he was. Those 10 minutes were worth more than all the other lessons I'd taken previously put together.

Imagine, I thought having a loose stroke was a good thing, which it is. However he told me I was too loose, and needed to tighten the stroke up.

Kudos to Mark!

Here's his website: http://playgreatpool.com/

Cheers!

Flex
 
Kyzyl said:
Yea, I've heard of doing that, but do you think the plastic (hole reinforcers) would cause the cue ball to slip?? I don't know, maybe, maybe not.
Click to expand...

Not that I have noticed. The beauty of the hole reinforcers is that they facilitate replacing the ball(s) in exactly the same spot(s)... so you don't change the cut angle of the shot from shot to shot.
 
Andrew Manning said:
Well, really only one out of three. Deflection gets MUCH more noticeable the harder you hit the ball, but throw is greatly reduced, and any swerve will occur later with the harder hit, meaning it effects the CB's hit on the OB less.

-Andrew
Click to expand...
I figured someone would correct me if I was wrong! :)

It is possible that he has been compensating for throw without knowing it with his soft to medium shots and hasn't made the correct adjustment to his power stroke.
 
Flex said:
I think the first thing he should do is see someone like Mark Wilson. In less than 10 minutes he had identified several problems in my stroke and devised a drill to correct the stroke. He told me to give his suggestions 7-10 days to kick in, and I'd see a big improvement. How right he was. Those 10 minutes were worth more than all the other lessons I'd taken previously put together.

Imagine, I thought having a loose stroke was a good thing, which it is. However he told me I was too loose, and needed to tighten the stroke up.

Kudos to Mark!

Here's his website: http://playgreatpool.com/

Cheers!

Flex
Click to expand...

I certainly can't argue with that advice. I've referred a few people to him, and I have only heard positive things. The most recent guy I referred to him is absolutely ecstatic about the improvement he's seen in his game, and he credits Mark for that.

There's nothing like the feeling of finding and fixing a problem on your own, however; it is very empowering, IMO.

Good luck,
Aaron
 
Caromsoft said:
I figured someone would correct me if I was wrong! :)

It is possible that he has been compensating for throw without knowing it with his soft to medium shots and hasn't made the correct adjustment to his power stroke.
Click to expand...

True, that's quite possible, but I think the power magnifying his stroke flaws is a more likely explanation.

-Andrew
 
Do you use an open bridge yankee?

I've been using one for maybe 80% of my shots, it used to be like 95% and I came to realize that in order to really deliver a hard stroke to the exact point I wanted, I had to make a closed/loop bridge. It especially helped with making long draw shots. So if you're not using a closed bridge, I'd start there.

Also, caromsoft made a good point... a lot of players develop the bad habit of throwing in all their shots unconsciously.... they spin in all their cut shots with outside english, which means they're used to undercutting them... or they use soft speed to throw a cut forward a bit, so they get used to aiming to overcut it a bit. I know I struggled with this.

Generally, if you have these habits... then with firm speed, a shot will cut a little more sharply than you expect. Watch to see if you keep overcutting or undercutting a certain kind of cut when you hit it with speed. If it's always over or always under than you probably are throwing in all your shots.
 
Andrew Manning said:
The fix is to see an instructor about building a body position and cueing motion that don't require any feats of coordination to deliver the cue straight and accurately. A good alignment allows for a simple and efficient motion, and a simple motion will work equally well at slow and fast speeds. Also, the amount of power available to you, accuracy aside, will increase, since your new stroke will not involve muscles working against each other, but rather a fluid and powerful muscle contraction.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Great information here, and absolutely accurate. Being able to "occasionally" get a decent stroke on the CB is struggling and leads to frustration (which is a serious impediment to learning). Is that fun? NO! Does it lead to improvement? Not for most players...at least not for a long time. Why someone would want to 'try to figure it out themselves' is beyond me, when a quick, permanent solution is easily available...but many players choose this path. Afterall, a new cue is ALWAYS the answer! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
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