Aiming by feel: The rest of the story

[JoeyA]

I understand these claims and what they imply. What I don't understand are the basics of how the pivoting is done and how it is different for each of the three cut angles. In the end, the shot aim is determined by exactly where you place you bridge hand (assuming a center-ball hit). So something in the procedure must guide you as to where you place your bridge hand based on the required angle of the shot. Could you briefly explain how this works?

This is the first I have heard about the relation between the CTE line and the cut angle to the pocket. At what point is this taken into consideration, and how?

Thanks,
Dave

CTE (Center to Edge) is an ALIGNMENT SYSTEM. It is not an aiming system. This is purely my own personal opinion. One might consider it the beginning of an aiming or shooting system but it's primary purpose is for the shooter to have THE SAME precise alignment each and every shot.

The pivoting is part of the aiming system or shooting system and players go through different stages eventually eliminating the manual pivot.

Sorry I don't have more information for you.
JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

I know I probably should not have poked fun at something as emotional (and religious) as aiming systems, but I have put a lot and time and effort into to this and I have been quite frustrated by the lack of simple answers to simple questions.

Sorry,
Dave (without the "Dr." prefix)

PS: I do hope to spend time with Stan in the future.

You were making a funny? I thought you were serious. That's it. I'm not wasting my time with you any longer.
JoeyA

 

[dr_dave]

makin' funny

You were making a funny? I thought you were serious. That's it. I'm not wasting my time with you any longer.
JoeyA

Aren't I allowed to "make a funny" every once in a while?

Actually, I was serious about my level of frustration and with some of the points I was trying to make.

Regards,
Dave

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Its believers (including you) react emotionally when it's questioned and apparently can't explain it rationally. It has a prophet and apostles. You have to travel to The Mount and receive The Sermon to be admitted to the Congregation. Its followers believe they're saved and others are blind to The Truth.

Sounds familiar to me...

pj
chgo

Show me one time I ever got emotional in this thread? I've been quite relaxed, actually. I can explain it rationally and with great detail, I just choose not to. Others get emotional and resort to "mount/congregation" comments.

If you recall, PJ, I offered to pay for 1/2 your airline ticket for you to spend a day or two with me and you rejected. I don't think that's being emotional... I think that's me sending out an olive branch to work together. Instead, you and the doc post smart little snippets calling it a religion. For you guys, it always will be because no one is cluing you in on anything and you can't hack it.

 

[Justlovecues]

It's nothing emotional or religious. I have a good research project. Find me a small stipend and I'll teach a billiard 101 class to 5 random Colorado State University students and you do the same. After a semester, we should match our sections up to see whose students would give weight versus whose would need weight. It could be a measurable result and could be published. I'm spotting you a website, I won't need one.

- Dr. Spider

Spider, I rarely loose a bet. My money is on your 'students'!! Oh! I think you should give them 4 games on the wire in a race to 9.

 

[whitewolf]

Whitewolf, I have tried your idea and have concluded that one learns to visually adjust the position of the contact point because the throw is increased. What you suggest is the inclusion of additional variables to the base system.

Thanks for trying my system, but if what you concluded is all, then you are far too hopelessly left brained to EVER figure out any right brained stuff.

The inclusion of additional variables only serves to prove that an oversimplied system serves no purpose in the real world. Surely you must have learned this in psychology/experimentation.

 

[whitewolf]

Guilty as charged. I didn't start the CTE stuff, but I have pushed it. I apologize to Dr. Joe if he feels this was inappropriate in his thread. Don't worry ... I'm done.

After reading many hundreds of postings and e-mails concerning CTE, after talking with Stan, Hal, and others on the phone, and after trying (at my table) everything people have suggested, I still don't know how and why CTE works for the examples I have suggested (if it does). Maybe it is just too complicated for dunce-heads like me to understand. :frown:

I was going to start another thread and even write an article about CTE for BD, but I've decided not too because, after all of this effort, I still don't know how to describe or illustrate CTE in any way that makes real sense.

Dr. Dave, congratulations for achieving a little right brainedness!! There is hope for you yet.

 

[jasonlaus]

So how many of you don't miss balls? If your system works wouldn't you stop missing balls?

Got my riot gear on go ahead. JASON

 

[breakshot]

stop the madness- just relax and focus

Why do so many players try to quantify the aiming, ball control and stroke.
If you have decent fundamentals ( doesn't have to be perfect)and they relax and pay attention to what is happening on the table, in time you will receive enough feedback/data from the table and balls, to be able to play by feel/memory.

 

[stan shuffett]

CTE (Center to Edge) is an ALIGNMENT SYSTEM. It is not an aiming system.


Hi Joey,

Gotta disagree....just a little. PRO ONE (CTE) is an aiming sytem. Alignment is strong! The key aspect of alignment is VISUAL. The eyes see CTE....The eyes lead the body to the proper aim. In CTE you learn to make subtle adjustments with the body that can vary for some shots.

For sure, alignment during CTE trumps any other aiming system that I have ever been exposed to.

Perhaps we're saying the same thing.

Hope all is well your way.

Stan

 

[dr_dave]

I apologize for my lack of tact

you and the doc post smart little snippets calling it a religion. For you guys, it always will be because no one is cluing you in on anything and you can't hack it.

SpiderWebComm-Dave, Stan, Hal, and other CTE/Pro-One supporters (including the people I have communicated with recently via PM and e-mail). I sincerely apologize if I have offended any of you with my snide and tactless remarks. My frustration was no excuse for my childish postings making fun of CTE. I can see how people might consider the posts disrespectful. I have heard lots of good things about Stan, and he seems like a really nice guy on the phone, so I especially do not want to be disrespectful to him. I sincerely hope I get to spend time with him in person in the future so he can try to explain CTE and Pro-One to me in detail and show me how they really work.

Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone. That certainly wasn't my intention.

Respectfully,
Dave (feeling a little guilty)

 

[stan shuffett]

CTE (Center to Edge) is an ALIGNMENT SYSTEM. It is not an aiming system.


Hi Joey,

Gotta disagree....just a little. PRO ONE (CTE) is an aiming sytem. Alignment is strong! The key aspect of alignment is VISUAL. The eyes see CTE....The eyes lead the body to the proper aim. In CTE you learn to make subtle adjustments with the body that can vary for some shots.

For sure, alignment during CTE trumps any other aiming system that I have ever been exposed to.

Perhaps we're saying the same thing.

Hope all is well your way.

Stan

PRO ONE is an aiming system. It is systematic. There is a series of steps that take the player to a correct aim.

During the angle,speed and spin equation...the angle is always CTE.
During alignment the eyes see CTE....the body learns what to do.
During the guidedown to SET...the eyes are focused properly.
During the pivot( which can be very subtle) the eyes continue to focus properly and the cue turns to the vertical axis of the CB for the aimline. The pivot has a very specific requirement that is learned during training.

Yes, alignment is KEY to the process but there is so much more.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Dr. Dave,

I appreciate that post. Thanks very much.

Stan

 

[dr_dave]

Dr. Dave,

I appreciate that post. Thanks very much.

Stan

You're welcome very much.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Show me one time I ever got emotional in this thread?

You're getting better.

I can explain it rationally and with great detail, I just choose not to.

Yeah, sure.

It's OK though - I'm not really looking for an explanation of CTE; I'm pretty sure I understand it well enough for my purpose. I'm just using your inability to describe it (which you call unwillingness) to illustrate that it's feel-based like all "approximation" systems - trying to help others learn something about what these systems really are before they decide to go to The Mount and pay The Prophet.

I'm not saying they shouldn't go - just that they should know something about what they're getting before they go. Maybe it's what they're looking for; maybe it's not.

pj
chgo

 

[JoeyA]

SpiderWebComm-Dave, Stan, Hal, and other CTE/Pro-One supporters (including the people I have communicated with recently via PM and e-mail). I sincerely apologize if I have offended any of you with my snide and tactless remarks. My frustration was no excuse for my childish postings making fun of CTE. I can see how people might consider the posts disrespectful. I have heard lots of good things about Stan, and he seems like a really nice guy on the phone, so I especially do not want to be disrespectful to him. I sincerely hope I get to spend time with him in person in the future so he can try to explain CTE and Pro-One to me in detail and show me how they really work.

Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone. That certainly wasn't my intention.

Respectfully,
Dave (feeling a little guilty)

sniff....sniff..............Your act of contrition seems sincere. For your guilt; since you have repented and promise to mend your ways, I recommend a penance which includes you developing a new aiming system that will improve all of our games. The forum will discuss your aiming system to decide if further penance is needed.

"Father" JoeyA

 

[Patrick Johnson]

sniff....sniff..............Your act of contrition seems sincere. For your guilt; since you have repented and promise to mend your ways, I recommend a penance which includes you developing a new aiming system that will improve all of our games. The forum will discuss your aiming system to decide if further penance is needed.

"Father" JoeyA

LOL.

The ultimate aiming system has already been invented. It's the Center-to-Center system. Here's how it works:

1. Align the center of the cue ball with the center of the object ball for all shots. The advantage of this over Center-to-Edge is obvious: half as many decisions to make.

2. The next step is completely formulaic with no feel involved, but it's so subtle and advanced that it can't be put into words - you have to come to my ashram in Sri Lanka where I wifi it directly into your brain. If you don't want to take yor shoes off (or put your clothes on) my do-it-yourself brain implant surgery kit (with detailed instructions on CD) will be out soon on Amazon.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

The DAM system ... again

sniff....sniff..............Your act of contrition seems sincere. For your guilt; since you have repented and promise to mend your ways, I recommend a penance which includes you developing a new aiming system that will improve all of our games. The forum will discuss your aiming system to decide if further penance is needed.

"Father" JoeyA

Bless me father, for I have sinned. But didn't you see my DAM system already ... wasn't that penance enough? Woops. Bless me father, for I have sinned again by writing DAM, which looks like DAMN. Woops. There I go again. I better stop before I burn in hell even more than I expect.:frown:

I'm a recovering catholic, so I sometimes have a guilt complex. Sorry, I couldn't resist making fun again.

In case you missed my DAM system, here it is again, without the mocking sentences:

DAM ("Dave's Aiming Method"):The basics of the system are: you visualize the required "angle of the shot" and required line of aim, you then align your cue and vision with the line of aim as you drop into your stance, you then follow all of the recommended stroke "best practices," you maintain "quiet eyes" both at the "set" aiming position (checking the CB tip contact point and your aiming line) and when focusing on your OB target during the final forward stroke. If you are a good shooter and you maintain focus and don't do anything wrong during the entire DAM process, it works.

Regards,
Dave

 

[David Beck]

So how many of you don't miss balls? If your system works wouldn't you stop missing balls?

Got my riot gear on go ahead. JASON

My doctor prescribed CTE to me. I found I play much better and the game to be a tad bit easier once I stopped missing balls. Try not missing balls today and see if it works for you!

Warning, CTE may cause illusions of grandeur, pivoting, and knowing it is not your place to talk about the inner machinations of CTE and/or CTE-related systems.

 

[JoeyA]

Bless me father, for I have sinned. But didn't you see my DAM system already ... wasn't that penance enough? Woops. Bless me father, for I have sinned again by writing DAM, which looks like DAMN. Woops. There I go again. I better stop before I burn in hell even more than I expect.:frown:

I'm a recovering catholic, so I sometimes have a guilt complex. Sorry, I couldn't resist making fun again.

In case you missed my DAM system, here it is again, without the mocking sentences:


Regards,
Dave

My son, I saw the DAM system but wasn't that impressed. If you don't crank out a useful aiming system I am going to have to turn you over to the Monsignor and you really don't want to go there. His grant of absolution comes at a great price.

For the moment, you can chant the Latin mantra, "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa". Chant this until your tongue becomes too thick to make the sounds audible and then get back to work on the new aiming system.

"Father" JoeyA ( the good one )