Aiming IMPORTANT..REALLY

[Pushout]

He didn't teach Efren and Hal told me that he has never met Efren in his life. The only thing he told me was that about 4 or 5 filipinos came over to see him while he was in California and taught them the systems. These guys are younger than Efren so I don't know that Efren even uses one of Hal's systems.
Matter of fact I am on the phone with him right now.
Koop
My bad. Go ahead then. Sorry.

According to Hal, who I spoke to the day after the above quote, he did meet Efren sometime before he moved East. IIRC, Hal told me that since first meeting Efren, they have talked several times. He told me about the 4 or 5 guys who did visit him and one of them was Parica.

 

[JoeyInCali]

According to Hal, who I spoke to the day after the above quote, he did meet Efren sometime before he moved East. IIRC, Hal told me that since first meeting Efren, they have talked several times. He told me about the 4 or 5 guys who did visit him and one of them was Parica.

My bad.
So Efren and Parica use his system now?

 

[Curdog]

How ridiculous is this going to become. What we have is supposedly a great aiming system which has been shared with countless players by Mr. Houle himself. None of these people are willing or able to define the system because of their allegience to the instructor. I can honestly say that I have never seen this much honor amongst a group of pool players.
Obviously some of the fractional aiming has leaked out. Just as obviously, many shots have been identified where these fractional hits won't work. What's missing!
This is becoming as big as any conspiracy that I can remember. Maybe if we could find out who really assassinated Kennedy, he might be the missing link to the secret of aiming.
JMO

 

[Bigjohn]

Aiming threads have recently attracted hundreds of posts and certainly thousands in the past.

The interest is obviously valid because there are few, if any issues in the study of the game that are more important.

But when ONE thread draws hundreds of posts and thousands of views AND so much bitterness and condescension then hopefully this post regarding which I expect few replies...and ask for none...will be helpful in REDUCING both the number of the posts and the emotional content of them.

Aiming, by definition, requires vision and vision, like all senses, is imperfect.

If a person is astigmatic and doesn't know it, then he will swear that the picture on the wall isn't level and could pass a lie detector test to that effect.

But a person standing next to him who does not have an astigmatism will swear with equal fervor that the picture IS level and HE could pass a lie detector test.

That is one reason (not astigmatism but human perception in general) that "eye witnesses" are WELL KNOWN to provide among the least reliable testimony.

All aiming systems require vision and somes require the use of CB/OB parts that are offset from the center of the CB/OB AND from the middle of the shooters eye position.

In such instances "A" may actually see one image and "B" another and they will both swear to what they see...and they both will be telling the TRUTH.

My point is this. With respect to vision we all have our own realities. Some people will have identical realities and others will have different realities.

So, when people post here about how they go about the aiming process, with rare exceptions...there are pathological liars in the world and there are those who will sell a faulty product knowingly... but by and large, most of the posts here about aiming methodology come from people who are taking their time, for no economic reward, to share THEIR REALITIES with the community and there is MUCH to be praised about that and NOTHING to be dealt with in a belligerent, condescending or arrogant fashion.

The posters sees through his own eyes and no one elses and when the astigmatic guy is told that the picture is NOT crooked and that, by the way, you are an idiot for thinking it is...then nothing productive has been accomplished.

So, I am just offering the suggestion that on visual perception issues especially, some slack be cut to the proponents of a given method that might work quite well for HIM/HER and not to suggest that the method is worthless, or a waste of time or the meanderings of an utter fool.

Pointing out differences of opinion and in some cases facts...or at least things believed to be facts can HELP the person who might not have tested the theory as comprehensively as possible.

For if you conclude that the poster is well intentioned and merely trying to help by making a contribution...even if the views expressed are wrong, the posters motives should be respected and responded to in kind.

Clearly, doing so would cut down the number of posts by half if not substantially more and reduce the snotty exchanges that many...including me...find themselves drawn into from time to time.

Conversely, lunging in with "you have no clue" and doing so, for example, under the transparent guise of protecting the innocent and helpless among us, will only lead to a predictable and unfortunate result.

That's all. Thanks for reading this...both of you.
(I-:

A lot of people are trying to circumvent hours of practice with trigonometry and bogus methods. Practice and it will come...No Trigonometry needed!!!

 

[av84fun]

How ridiculous is this going to become. What we have is supposedly a great aiming system which has been shared with countless players by Mr. Houle himself. None of these people are willing or able to define the system because of their allegience to the instructor. I can honestly say that I have never seen this much honor amongst a group of pool players.
Obviously some of the fractional aiming has leaked out. Just as obviously, many shots have been identified where these fractional hits won't work. What's missing!
This is becoming as big as any conspiracy that I can remember. Maybe if we could find out who really assassinated Kennedy, he might be the missing link to the secret of aiming.
JMO

I have it on excellent authority, that it was ELVIS who shot Kennedy...which is why the CIA tried to assasinate him by spiking his food with massive quantities of fat globules and when that didn't work, they faked his death and put him into a version of the witness protection program...forced him to undergo gender change surgery and reincarnated him as Madonna.

(-:

 

[Curdog]

I have it on excellent authority, that it was ELVIS who shot Kennedy...which is why the CIA tried to assasinate him by spiking his food with massive quantities of fat globules and when that didn't work, they faked his death and put him into a version of the witness protection program...forced him to undergo gender change surgery and reincarnated him as Madonna.

(-:

My point exactly. Learn the game!

 

[av84fun]

Bigjohn..."A lot of people are trying to circumvent hours of practice with trigonometry and bogus methods. Practice and it will come...No Trigonometry needed!!!"

Sure...agreed. But give me a person "A" who takes up pool and refuses to pay attention to the incredible wealth of written instructional material and/or taking advice from strong players and another person "B" who DOES study instead of merely trying to figure out the game on their own...then "B" gives "A" the 5 out and robs him.

(-:

 

[Koop]

How ridiculous is this going to become. What we have is supposedly a great aiming system which has been shared with countless players by Mr. Houle himself. None of these people are willing or able to define the system because of their allegience to the instructor. I can honestly say that I have never seen this much honor amongst a group of pool players.
Obviously some of the fractional aiming has leaked out. Just as obviously, many shots have been identified where these fractional hits won't work. What's missing!
This is becoming as big as any conspiracy that I can remember. Maybe if we could find out who really assassinated Kennedy, he might be the missing link to the secret of aiming.
JMO

Hi Curdog,

I know that it seems ridiculous but the fact is, Hal does not wish people putting his systems out on the internet. His reasoning is two-fold and I can't argue with either. First, it's very easy to misunderstand what is written and, instead of helping players, actually hurting them. Second, he has been hammered so many times by people who were either A) unwilling to even try it, or B) too smart for their own good when it comes to applying math and equations to a game that is full of great players who probably can't even solve a basic Algebra equation.

Hope this helps, at least somewhat, to explain the reasoning.

Regards and happy holidays,
Koop

 

[JoeyInCali]

Bigjohn..."A lot of people are trying to circumvent hours of practice with trigonometry and bogus methods. Practice and it will come...No Trigonometry needed!!!"

Sure...agreed. But give me a person "A" who takes up pool and refuses to pay attention to the incredible wealth of written instructional material and/or taking advice from strong players and another person "B" who DOES study instead of merely trying to figure out the game on their own...then "B" gives "A" the 5 out and robs him.

(-:

Give me the 5-out.
Is it just me or what? Most of the really good players I know have not read one book in pool.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Give me the 5-out.
Is it just me or what? Most of the really good players I know have not read one book in pool.

Most of the really good players I know dropped out of junior high school. Maybe we all should.

pj
chgo

 

[olauzon]

aiming - important ? really ?

 

[Bigjohn]

Give me the 5-out.
Is it just me or what? Most of the really good players I know have not read one book in pool.

Bingo!...same with me... A lot of people are trying to make it a lot harder than it really is. The perfect system or formula... is practice! doin it over and over again.

 

[icem3n]

Bingo!...same with me... A lot of people are trying to make it a lot harder than it really is. The perfect system or formula... is practice! doin it over and over again.

Training over and over again will not get you perfect. You need a system and knowledge of the balls physical reaction to shoot sharp.

An architect will not have a perfect drawing without exact measurement nor will he draw a perfect straight line. He cannot draw a perfect straight line nor a perfect square without a system.

Like pool, this principal applies.

You need to know where you shooting. You should not target the whole object ball but pick the needle size point on the object ball.

It is better to have a point on the ball better than nothing at all, won't you agree?

A very good example of a player using this system is AMIT RUBILLEN (female) from the Philippine. Every shot is very systematic. She aim very shot the same way, no matter how easy the shot is. Psychological help her in the tough shot because she knows that her aiming system work everytime. I think Joey would agree with me on this.

 

[av84fun]

Give me the 5-out.
Is it just me or what? Most of the really good players I know have not read one book in pool.

No, you give ME the 5 out. I've read a LOT on the game and didn't drop out in the 5th grade so I must be at a disadvantage. Right???

5 bags...your place or mine!

(-:

 

[av84fun]

Training over and over again will not get you perfect. You need a system and knowledge of the balls physical reaction to shoot sharp.

An architect will not have a perfect drawing without exact measurement nor will he draw a perfect straight line. He cannot draw a perfect straight line nor a perfect square without a system.

Like pool, this principal applies.

You need to know where you shooting. You should not target the whole object ball but pick the needle size point on the object ball.

It is better to have a point on the ball better than nothing at all, won't you agree?

A very good example of a player using this system is AMIT RUBILLEN (female) from the Philippine. Every shot is very systematic. She aim very shot the same way, no matter how easy the shot is. Psychological help her in the tough shot because she knows that her aiming system work everytime. I think Joey would agree with me on this.

Right Johnny. And then there is Allison Fisher who has won more WPBA events than all other competitors COMBINED.

And she not only studies the game...she TEACHES the game and therefore, by observation, does not agree with anyone who thinks the best way to learn is to just go banging balls around until you get perfect.

LOL

 

[klockdoc]

icem3n
Training over and over again will not get you perfect. You need a system and knowledge of the balls physical reaction to shoot sharp.

I think everyone is on the right track here and everyone has made some valid points. So, I am going to insert my opinion.

Although you do not have to know a so-called system in order to play great pool, I think a system is beneficial for the majority of all the players in the arena.

The amount of people playing pool definitely outweigh the amount of really good players out there.

Whether you think you are using a system or not, you are using something in order to drive the object ball into the pocket. If you are using the contact point method, which most players use if they do not have a traditional book written system, IT IS A SYSTEM.

Those players who excel in pool by not learning a system, I believe, further improve their game later in life by finding out WHY the balls are going where they do by discovering that there is a reason this is happening.

In this forum, we are really discussing systems to help those that are NOT the best out there. We are trying to improve the D's, C's, B's and some the the A's that want the improvement.

Whether some believe that a system works or not, it can be a valuable learning/teaching tool for those that are not born with the "silver spoon" in their mouth.

I can give you an example. My daughter shoots very well. Has won many 1st places in the tournaments she attends. She is also a BCA National winner. She does not know any system except shooting the balls into the pockets. Could she be better by taking instruction? Yes.

Is she interested in taking lessons? No. She is back in college and trying to get her degree. Pool is only interesting when she needs the money. If she would find out why the balls go in for her and improve her safety game, she could be on the pro tour, IMO.

Let's put it this way, "IF I can learn ONE SHOT by reading a book, that I didn't know before, I consider myself a very informed, lucky person".

 

[kaznj]

Now that is a really well written, intelligent post. More than one professional player has told me that the reason some players point their stick at the bottom of the cue ball when they first start to aim, even if using extreme follow, is because they are finding the center of the ball. Many people cannot find horizontal center ball because their eyes see the ball differently. Find center ball this way and then move your stick up while trying not to take the cue off that line. It is just a particular persons perception of the ball.

 

[Koop]

Klokdoc,

Nice post and best of luck to your daughter and getting her degree. IMO there is nothing more important. Even pool

Koop

 

[Pushout]

Now that is a really well written, intelligent post. More than one professional player has told me that the reason some players point their stick at the bottom of the cue ball when they first start to aim, even if using extreme follow, is because they are finding the center of the ball. Many people cannot find horizontal center ball because their eyes see the ball differently. Find center ball this way and then move your stick up while trying not to take the cue off that line. It is just a particular persons perception of the ball.

This sounds similar to what Nick Varner and I talked about some years ago. He pointed his cue at the bottom of the cue ball. When I asked him about it, he said it was an aiming system that he was trying out. He didn't elaborate on it, unfortunately.
Personally, I agree that everyone uses some kind of system. But, when reaching the goal of dead stroke, or whatever it's called these days, most of us aren't aware of using a system or aiming at something consciously.
We just do it, and that's when the "feel" or sub-conscious aiming comes into play. Many people have hit so many balls that they don't consciously aim anymore, it's just automatic.

 

[kildegirl]

Efren & Bustamante Aiming System

That is my point in an important way. YOU have the ability to just SEE the shots and that is a big advantage.

You have noticed that on bank shots and/or kicks, some pros use their cue sticks to execute some system..others use the same system but are able to visualize the lines that others need the stick to help them with.

Still others have no system and can just imagine the path of the CB...sometimes over 3-4 rail distances. Bobby Pickle is an example of the latter and I know for a fact that he has never read a pool instructional book in his life!

Memorization is another skill that people possess in WILDLY varying degrees. Those complex kicking systems...Plus 2 or whatever they are called, give me a migraine headache just looking at the diagrams but I imagine that there are great players who can recite those systems in their sleep...and others, like Bobby who have never even seen the diagrams, let alone tried to memorize them.

Anyway, there is a limited number of World Champions and/or world reknowned instructors who post here..and God knows some of THEM disagree with each other so most of us would be wise to cool our jets and not be quite so adamant about our theories and be less inclined to tell people that what is working for them...isn't working for them.

LOL

And I point all but the last finger first...at myself...while pledging to be less inclined to respond in kind when disccussions erode into battles.

Regards,
Jim

JIM WHO [HIDING ] ????