Aiming Secrets of the Pros

[Stretch]

Good point, but I think that your aiming method is part of your alignment, or your alignment is part of your aiming method.... (Its the chicken or the egg theory) ..JMO

chicken or egg theory. You mean, which came first? Neither....it was the rooster

In terms of the aiming method, and alignment. This is what the psychologist call "being in agreement". You've computed all pertinent imformation about the shot, you know what you need to do with the cueball and how it must be struck. You've visualized the shot. Now when you settle behind the cueball you can FEEL if it's right, because the body position is in agreement with your minds conception of the shot. If your off in alignment, aim, commitment etc. You'll know that too. The hardest thing to do is catch yourself and reset when your not in agreement. But then....i always have my Mrs. to remind myself of that. LOL St

 

[Celtic]

Think for a second...just think...about what you said yesterday in the other thread about using outside english and throw. If you're using outside you can hit the OB fuller to get it to go into the pocket and if you're using center or inside you have to hit it increasingly thinner. OF COURSE...that is 100% correct. Now if we take those same factors into consideration, coupled with backhand english, you CAN aim center to edge and get the results. If you just aimed center to edge on every shot regardless of the angle with center alignment on the CB, who in their right mind could possibly think that it would work. IT DOESN'T. Now I'm not going to explain to you where you have to line the tip of your cue and how to pivot for backhand, that in fact is all over the CB...however, it is going to remain with me. But if YOU don't know about it or how to do it, that doesn't mean that it can't be done or exist. Can you tell me how much you factor in an aim differential for throw? NO...I didn't think so. That doesn't mean you're not doing it though. And if somebody new to the game couldn't understand how you could hit the OB fuller when doing it to pocket the ball and disputed it, what do you say to them?

So in effect you are saying "I know a mystery system that makes the game easy as pie, but I aint gonna share it on this message board, I am just going to taunt the members that may find use in it with the fact they cannot have it. I would feel wrong letting it out since Hal makes money with it, although Greenleaf originally taunt him the system sooo...."

I myself would not likely use the system, I have played this game too long and developed a game where I can play near pro pool as it is, starting over with some new system I would have to think about is not gonna happen. It is impossible to debate a system when you wont actually explain the system. Aiming center to edge on a cut to the left when I am playing right handed bottom wont make the shot, but for the mystery backhanded english that wont be explained, and if that is nothing more then pivoting the backhand and keeping the bridge hand in the same spot (such that the cue tip moves along the cueball to various areas and the aim changes with a similar natural adjustement to the english that will cause deflection) this is nothing new and it has flaws.

In the end it is like me saying "My buddy showed me a planet where there are intelligent aliens living. You can see the planet through a powerful telescope, you can see the buildings and the cities and the spacecraft flying around. I cannot tell you where the planet is though, but it does exist, we are not alone. The government knows of this planet, it is a major source of all the technological advances and inventions of today. Bill Gates knows of the planet, he is rich because of it, but the guy likes to tell people he invented his stuff himself because he does not want other people finding the planet and going into competition with him."

Its all talk, no proof. If you want to prove anything to me then send me a PM. If it is really more intricate then shifting the backhand while not moving the bridge hand and the cue therefore pivots and adjusts aim based on english then let me know. I doubt I will use it, I have seen alot of gimmicks, I know alot of pro's on a first name basis and have sat and chatted with them over beers and one thing I have learned is not everyone is doing the same thing. The pivot system is taught by Paul Potier, it is refuted by in large by Horsefall, and Mikkelsen does a thing where he aims every ball with center and at the last second puts the english on which may be what you speak of, but his stroke is one of the rarest you will ever see and no pro does it like him (and most simply could not for that matter)

I am all for debates DM, just give us something to talk about, not "I have a secret!". How is one supposed to discuss that? It becomes tiresom real fast when someone sits there and dangles a carrot, especially when you are not even that hungry and dont much like carrots. We dont need snake oil on this board though, prove Hal is selling more then that.

 

[drivermaker]

I would feel wrong letting it out since Hal makes money with it,

I myself would not likely use the system, I have played this game too long and developed a game where I can play near pro pool as it is,

I am all for debates DM, just give us something to talk about, not "I have a secret!". How is one supposed to discuss that? It becomes tiresom real fast We dont need snake oil on this board though, prove Hal is selling more then that.

First, it must be known to one and all that Hal DOES NOT make money with it. He charges no one for his knowledge of aiming systems. Not because they're not worth anything, quite the contrary, many a teacher/instructor has tried to pump him for the knowledge for their own financial gain but Hal is fully aware of the ulterior motive and gives them nothing. If Hal should choose to put it in writing or CD on his own, then I will respect his creative life efforts until that occurs. It's not mine and I WILL NOT discuss it. End of story on that for you or anyone else on these various boards! Hal decides in the end who he will and won't share the methods.

You stated that you've played this game too long and are near pro level.
In another thread floating around right now you stated that you were a junior in Vegas at the BCA or VNEA around 93 or so. You also said, "I was such a noob at the game back then".

Well according to my math that was only 11 years ago which makes you no older than 30, at most. More than likely still in your 20's. The question that I have is how did you go from "noob" only about a decade ago, to the world's most knowledgeable individual on aiming systems and other areas in such a short period of time? I can't say that I'm near pro level now, because like a number of guys on here when you start getting long in the tooth and other priorities take over throughout life, the game goes south somewhat. However, I too at one time was near pro level. I still play a damn good game of pool because I put time into practice and play, but I'm not going to delude myself about where I stand in the pecking order of excellence in play. I've been a student of this game for 44 years. Hal is 80 and learned from one of the all time greats in the game and was around many more great players after that. Who are you to discredit any of what he knows or has done? Basically, you're still a virtual neophyte in the knowledge stage. 20 years from now you'll look back on it and say what you just said about 11 years ago, that you were a noob. I have some other words, but I won't go into it.

The debate is over and there is NOTHING more to talk about because it all centered on aiming systems, which you said are hogwash and making balls comes from just making balls and experience, not a method.

Yet, you detailed various ways that you aim a shot and they're ALL KNOWN AIMING SYSTEMS. They exist, you just don't know what they're called or refuse to acknowledge that you're using something other than what you deem as pure instinct. Bullshit! They're aiming systems! Yes...we all use instinct and make adjustments based on english, throw, deflection, etc., but before doing that, we ALL use a method to determine where the OB must be struck beforehand.

You said, "The closest I could say I aim with a system is by aiming the cue through the cueball and to a point on or near the object ball. To make a straight shot you aim the cue at the center of the object ball through the CB on the follow through". (This is a cue stick aiming method coupled with a contact point aiming method.) (Contact point and contact point determination are all aiming systems).

You also stated, "To make the ultra thin 90 (or 89.5 in reality) degree cut you must aim the CB center exactly 1/2 a ball width off the OB as that will send the edge of the CB to the edge of the OB. Every other shot on the table is between these 2 extremes". (That is the GHOST BALL AIMING SYSTEM! You are aiming the center of the CB into space, where the center of a "GHOST BALL" would exist exactly 1/2 ball width from the OB) Is any of this registering on your brain yet?? THESE ARE TWO, ACTUALLY THREE, SEPARATE AIMING SYSTEMS SO FAR!

You stated later, "If I want to make a shot that is 22.5 degrees I am not going to try and break the OB into 4 quarters and try and then aim the cue through the 1/4 point, just ain't gonna happen. In the end I will shoot at the 1/4 point but it won't be a conscious thing wher I decipher the math, it will be me aiming the CB at a point on the OB I have learned by shooting thousands of shots just like that before, every overcut, every undercut, and every time I had made that shot reinforces my mind as to where THAT POINT is subconsciously".

(If you are aiming at the 1/4 point in the end, that is either considered a FRACTIONAL OR SECTIONAL AIMING METHOD. I don't give a rat's ass how many times you shot that shot in your lifetime and either missed or made it...consciously or subconsciously...if you're shooting to THAT POINT, THAT POINT IS AN AIMING SYSTEM THAT DOES EXIST. IT IS FRACTIONAL OR SECTIONAL AIMING SYSTEMS. HOW you came to determine it in a fraction of a second is irrelevant)

I don't know if you're getting this or not, actually I could give a shit less. The debate is over.

 

[chefjeff]

First, it must be known to one and all that Hal DOES NOT make money with it. He charges no one for his knowledge of aiming systems. Not because they're not worth anything, quite the contrary, many a teacher/instructor has tried to pump him for the knowledge for their own financial gain but Hal is fully aware of the ulterior motive and gives them nothing. If Hal should choose to put it in writing or CD on his own, then I will respect his creative life efforts until that occurs. It's not mine and I WILL NOT discuss it. End of story on that for you or anyone else on these various boards! Hal decides in the end who he will and won't share the methods.

Driver,

Hal once sent me an email with his aiming system described in detail. I've since thrown it away and don't have it on file.

I tried it and didn't like it, but I've seen its potential value.

Question: Can't anyone contact Hal and ask him politely for it? Wouldn't that solve this "discussion?"

His email address is (((HalHoule@aol.com)))

Jeff Livingston

 

[drivermaker]

Driver,

Hal once sent me an email with his aiming system described in detail. I've since thrown it away and don't have it on file.

I tried it and didn't like it, but I've seen its potential value.

Question: Can't anyone contact Hal and ask him politely for it? Wouldn't that solve this "discussion?"

His email address is (((HalHoule@aol.com)))

Jeff Livingston

Jeff...not to say that it didn't happen, but to my knowledge Hal has NEVER described his aiming systems in writing through an email. I could be wrong, but that's what the man said. He will do it verbally either over the phone or in person once he feels comfortable with the individual. And it must be done while at the table. Besides he doesn't have AN aiming system...he has about 20. Each is somewhat different in seeing or perceiving the shot along with cueing variations. If he ever decides to write a book and have it published that's about the only way it'll ever get into written form. Again, I'm not his agent or spokesperson, just a grateful and respectful recipient.

 

[Mungtor]

Driver,

Hal once sent me an email with his aiming system described in detail. I've since thrown it away and don't have it on file.

I tried it and didn't like it, but I've seen its potential value.

Question: Can't anyone contact Hal and ask him politely for it? Wouldn't that solve this "discussion?"

His email address is (((HalHoule@aol.com)))

Jeff Livingston

I tried this once, and I didn't get anywhere. Drivermaker said that Hal must not have liked my attitude.

There are various collections out there of forum postings that Hal, or people who have learned from him have made and I've read a great deal of them. I still can't tell you anything other than Hal has many systems, not one which can account for every shot.

If some/most of the systems use BHE tho, it could account for why Drivermaker can't be happy with a Predator shaft.

 

[drivermaker]

I tried this once, and I didn't get anywhere. Drivermaker said that Hal must not have liked my attitude.

There are various collections out there of forum postings that Hal, or people who have learned from him have made and I've read a great deal of them. I still can't tell you anything other than Hal has many systems, not one which can account for every shot.

If some/most of the systems use BHE tho, it could account for why Drivermaker can't be happy with a Predator shaft.

Mungie...You be 100% correct on this post, especially the last sentence.

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff...not to say that it didn't happen, but to my knowledge Hal has NEVER described his aiming systems in writing through an email. I could be wrong, but that's what the man said. He will do it verbally either over the phone or in person once he feels comfortable with the individual. And it must be done while at the table. Besides he doesn't have AN aiming system...he has about 20. Each is somewhat different in seeing or perceiving the shot along with cueing variations. If he ever decides to write a book and have it published that's about the only way it'll ever get into written form. Again, I'm not his agent or spokesperson, just a grateful and respectful recipient.

I found it! I dug out my old "Billiard" file and there it was. Here's the first part of it:

Subj: PROFESSIONAL AIMING SYSTEMS
Date: 97-08-31 14:38:07 EDT
From: POOL HAL
To: CheffJeff

THIS IS A FREEBIE. There only 3 angles for any shot, on any size table. this includes; caroms, single rail banks, double rail banks, 1, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks, and double kiss banks. Any table has a 2 to 1 ration; 3 1/2 x 7, 4 x 8, 4 1/2 x 9, 5 x 10, 6 x 12. It is always twice as long as it is wide. The table corners are 90 degree angles. <snip>

It's rather long and I'm not sure if I should copy it here if Hal is planning a book. But, the last sentence is:
For any questions, call me. Regards, POOLHAL
so if he's not responding to request, he must have changed his mind from 1997. And he said he was born in 1924, so age may be a factor, too.

He was going to come to Des Moines that year and see me, but he never let me know the exact date and I hadn't thought about or heard about him until I arrived here at AZ.

Should I post the rest of his system here?

Jeff Livingston

 

[drivermaker]

For any questions, call me. Regards, POOLHAL
so if he's not responding to request, he must have changed his mind from 1997. And he said he was born in 1924, so age may be a factor, too.

Should I post the rest of his system here?

Jeff Livingston

He's changed his mind from 1997. He's still sharp as a tack at 80.
I think the most important part of that message is "For any questions, call me." Regards, Hal. I don't post anything and I don't think you should either. However, since you've been in touch with him before, just call him again. PM me is you've lost his number.

 

[Celtic]

There are only 3 angles for any shot, on any size table. This includes;
caroms, single rail banks, double rail banks, 1, 2, 3, and 4 rail banks,
and double kiss banks. Any table has a 2 to 1 ratio; 3 1/2 x 7, 4 x 8, 4 1�2
x 9, 5 x 10, 6 x 12. It is always twice as long as it is wide. The table
corners are 90 degree angles. When you lay a cue from the side pocket to
the corner pocket, you are forming an angle of 45 degrees. When you lay a
cue from the side pocket to the middle diamond on the same end rail, you
are forming an angle of 30 degrees. When you lay a cue from the side
pocket to the first diamond on the same end rail, you are forming an angle
of 15 degrees. When you add up these 3 angles, they total 90 degrees, which
is the same angle formed by the table corners. The cue ball relation to
object ball relation shot angle is always 15, 30, or 45 degrees. The
solution is very simple. There are only 2 edges on the cue ball to aim
with, and they are always exactly in the same place on the cue ball. There
are only 3 exact spots on the object ball to aim to, and they are always
exactly in the same place on the object ball. So, 2 edges on the cue ball,
and 3 spots on the object ball; 2 x 3 = 6 which is the total number of
table pockets. This means that, depending upon how the cue ball and object
ball lie in relation to one another, you may either pocket the object ball
directly into a pocket or bank it into any one of the remaining 5 pockets.
Of course, the reverse is true. If the relationship of cue ball to object
ball can only be a bank, so be it. There is never a need to look at a
pocket or cushion while lining up the edge on the cue ball to the spot on
the object ball. You have only those 3 angles Your only requirement is to
recognize whether your shot is a 15, 30, or 45 degree angle. Recognizing
those 3 angles can be accomplished in an instant by aiming the edge of the
cue ball to one of the spots on the object ball. It will be obvious which
object ball spot is correct. There will be no doubt. Any time either one of
the 2 edges on the cue ball is aimed at any one of the 3 spots on the
object ball, that object ball must go to a pocket. Choose the correct spot
and the object ball will most certainly go to the chosen pocket. The top
professional players in the game have always known about this professional
aiming system, but they are a closed fraternity, and you are the enemy.
Interested in where those spots are located?
The 2 places on the cue
ball are the left edge of the cue ball when you are cutting the object ball
to the left; and the right edge of the cue ball when you are cutting the
object ball to the right. The 3 spots on the object ball are the quarters,
and the center. The quarters and center of the object ball face straight at
the edges of your cue ball, not facing toward the pocket. In other words,
if you were on a work-bench at home, there would be no pocket, so you would
just line up the edge of the cue ball straight to your target on the object
ball. When you cut to the left for 15 degrees, aim the left cue ball edge
at the object ball left quarter. When you cut to the left for 30 degrees,
aim the cue ball left edge at the object ball center. When you cut to the
left for 45 degrees, aim the cue ball left edge at the object ball right
quarter. When you cut to the right for 15 degrees, you aim the cue ball
right edge at the object ball right quarter. When you cut to the right for
30 degrees, you aim the cue ball right edge at the object center. When you
cut to the right for 45 degrees, you aim the right cue ball edge to the
object ball left quarter. If you'll just get down and aim your old way,
you'll be close to where you should be aiming. Look to see (without
changing your head or eye position) just where the cue ball edge is aiming
at the object ball. You'll see that on every shot that the cue ball edge is
always aiming at the same targets on the object ball. Remember, this system
is for any shot on the table; banks, caroms, combinations, and so forth.
The only shot remaining is the extreme cut for any shot over 45 degrees.
Aim the cue ball edge to the eighth of the object ball (which is half of
the quarter). Don't let the pocket influence you. Have a friend hold the
ball tray between the object ball and the pocket, so you cannot see the
pocket, and you'll see that those 3 angles will handle just about anything.
Of course, you would have chosen the 15, 30, or 45 degree angle before your
friend put the ball tray in place. It also makes it much more interesting
if you don't tell your friend how you are pocketing the ball without seeing
the pocket. Have some fun. For any questions, call me. Regards, POOL HAL"

There ya all go.

 

[drivermaker]

There ya all go.

That's nice...there are only 19 more that you have to post. Personally, I've never used this one although I know it. I use 3 or 4 other ones that are easier and far more deadly. Good luck in your search......

BTW Celtic...aside from your rock head when it comes to aiming systems which is way off base regarding your understanding of them, everything else that you post is quite good and we're on the same page. I couldn't agree with you more about another game other than 9ball that should be played to determine a true champion...or a predator...or the gremlin...and a few other areas. Where did you go wrong on this one? Maybe it's the Coriolis Force affecting the swirling of your brain fluids since you've gone down under.

 

[DoomCue]

So this is one of Hal's magical aiming systems? It must really be magic to take a game which involves an INFINITE number of cut angles and simplify it to just three....

-djb <-- Thinks maybe straight-in shots should be the 4th angle

 

[Celtic]

well

Drivermaker, as I said and you know, I am not big on aiming systems so I dont really mind if I dont lead the cutting edge of debate on them. The one long post I made with what I do on my shooting was my best attempt to deconstruct my game into a bunch of aiming systems, you cannot explain instinct, but you can try to figure out the steps your subconcious is taking and then explain them as aiming systems, that was my attempt, so I guess I succeeded as you said yourself they were all in fact aiming systems. Before making the post I had surfed around alot all over the boards and read up on stuff to see if a system was part of what I did naturally, some of them were similar to what I did so I used alot of their wording and that would explain them standing out to you as known aiming systems. There are only so many ways one can aim a cueball at a specific area of a object ball, I am not surprised I am not managing to do something 100% unique to pot balls, that is probably a good thing too because I would maybe need to reasses what I do.

The thing above by Hal was posted on another message board, RSB or something, I found it searching his name and considering Hal lambasted Johnny Archer for not being honest and telling the world his aiming secrets turn about is fair play. I am glad to hear you dont use the above one, it strikes me as alot of hooey but perhaps his other systems are better and make more sense. I searched for it to begin with because of Greenleaf, I would love to see what he had to say because he is kind of a hero of mine just from what I read about him. I would be inclined to read what Greenleaf had to say.

You agree with me most of the time because you are a smart guy and I am almost always right. And as far as my aiming system musings, well sometimes I just like to hear myself talk (metaphorically speaking of course).

 

[Ragin1]

Then you could chime in with your knowlege of a secret system that is "enlightening, thought provoking, interesting, beneficial, and valuable to one and all", but not post the goodies, cause that would be bad form.

 

[drivermaker]

Then you could chime in with your knowlege of a secret system that is "enlightening, thought provoking, interesting, beneficial, and valuable to one and all", but not post the goodies, cause that would be bad form.

And then you have to wonder where a dumbo like this with 8 whole posts of nothingness comes from out of the woodwork. Whose alias is this? The only thing that's appropriate is the name, which is all you're good for, to come "Ragin" on someone with nothing else to say. Where are YOUR threads and posts of interest... Ain't seen any at all...zero, nada, zilch

 

[Ragin1]

And then you have to wonder where a dumbo like this with 8 whole posts of nothingness comes from out of the woodwork. Whose alias is this? The only thing that's appropriate is the name, which is all you're good for, to come "Ragin" on someone with nothing else to say. Where are YOUR threads and posts of interest... Ain't seen any at all...zero, nada, zilch

Still waiting whilst holding my breath for that outstanding aiming system that now numbers 20, you leeched from hal.

 

[drivermaker]

Still waiting whilst holding my breath for that outstanding aiming system that now numbers 20, you leeched from hal.

In addition to having nothing to say, you have a reading comprehension problem. Go back into the thread and read what I said. If Hal doesn't want it explained by way of the written word to just anybody...then it's not my job to do it either, especially for a bonehead like you. Keep holding your breath...I cut an atomic bomb "stinky" just for you to gag on.

 

[Mungtor]

Still waiting whilst holding my breath for that outstanding aiming system that now numbers 20, you leeched from hal.

Don't pass out. Hal's students don't post the methods. There seem to be a few reasons for this. In no particular order they are:

1. Hal asks them not to.
2. The knowledge gives them an advantage that they are not willing to give up.
3. They don't understand why the system works.
4. Putting the systems into words would be a novel length undertaking and they don't have the time.

 

[drivermaker]

Don't pass out. Hal's students don't post the methods. There seem to be a few reasons for this. In no particular order they are:

1. Hal asks them not to.
2. The knowledge gives them an advantage that they are not willing to give up.
3. They don't understand why the system works.
4. Putting the systems into words would be a novel length undertaking and they don't have the time.

Mungtor...still on the outside looking in. Otherwise, you seem to be an OK guy.

 

[Ragin1]

Don't pass out. Hal's students don't post the methods. There seem to be a few reasons for this. In no particular order they are:

1. Hal asks them not to.
2. The knowledge gives them an advantage that they are not willing to give up.
3. They don't understand why the system works.
4. Putting the systems into words would be a novel length undertaking and they don't have the time.

And #5

Post teasers on a discussion forumn. Then communicate like a 12 yr old in a school yard.