Aiming system? Does Pros using "Ghost Ball" (1/4,1/2,3/4) Or Looking for Point ?!!!

[Hustlin-Felice]

Aiming system? Does Pros using "Ghost Ball" (1/4,1/2,3/4) Or Looking for Point ?!!!

Hi guys

I started my journey with pool-billiard like a 3,5 year ago, but mostly for all of that time I was playing on 6 or 7ft table with slate made of MDF and wide pockets (you could fit 2,25 of 57,2 mm balls). Basicly - SH!!!!T
So potting the balls was not a big deal (not as big as on 9ft with tight pocket).

I bought a new pro table, 9ft with tight pocket (you can fit 1,9 or hardly 1,95 of 57,2mm balls). So I started playing and in first few days everything was cool, I was potting balls, but sadly it suddenly changed.

I'm a type of a guy, when something doesn't work, I change it and I looking for something better.

Since I started playing I used quite a few types of aiming:

First one was: I was walking behind the Object ball straight to see the middle of the pocket. Then I was remembering the point on the OB and then I was coming back to the Cue ball with my eyes on that point and I was shooting without looking on the pocket. Was ok, but sometimes I was missing like a crazy..

Second one was: I was standing behind the CB and I was looking at the reference line from pocket to the ball, then I lean, looked at: OB - Middle of pocket - OB - M of P and then I was coming back with my eyes slowly on OB - then when I had I point I was shooting. Worked quite OK, but still sometimes shots were completly of the line, OR I was loosing the point (which was irritating).

Third one was: Reference line while I was standing behind the CB, then throwing my eyes from: Middle of the pocket - Point on OB - Middle of the pocket - Point on the OB - and then I was shooting.
Was good, for couple of days, and my eye were loosing the point on OB, or getting it wrong.

Now I watched Steve Davis on Youtube, while he was talking about Ghost ball and hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones.
But I can't really see Pros using that kind of system, because with the pocket so tight like in Diamond table, You have to perfecly know where to hit. Not just know the: hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones..


So my question is Are Pros using Ghostball system and hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones ? Or the aiming for I Point ?

Also, when I standing behind the CB, and I have got reference line which I lean according to her, what next I need to do ? Throw my eyes from pocket to OB, I coming back slowly ? Focus on the point on OB when I got it and do a pause, or just hit it ?
How to aim when I'm lean, behind CB ?

I've got my right eye dominated? Cue stick should be more to the right side, or center ?

 

[Wedge]

My Observation

It appears you are right eye dominate so take that into consideration when you are lining up the shot. Hope this helps. Also, during a recent TAR interview with Corey Duel and John Schmidt they said their aiming systems were shooting thousands of balls...I agree!!!


Wedge

 

[CJ Wiley]

.pool's just a miniature version of golf in many ways

Hi guys

I started my journey with pool-billiard like a 3,5 year ago, but mostly for all of that time I was playing on 6 or 7ft table with slate made of MDF and wide pockets (you could fit 2,25 of 57,2 mm balls). Basicly - SH!!!!T
So potting the balls was not a big deal (not as big as on 9ft with tight pocket).

I bought a new pro table, 9ft with tight pocket (you can fit 1,9 or hardly 1,95 of 57,2mm balls). So I started playing and in first few days everything was cool, I was potting balls, but sadly it suddenly changed.

I'm a type of a guy, when something doesn't work, I change it and I looking for something better.

Since I started playing I used quite a few types of aiming:

First one was: I was walking behind the Object ball straight to see the middle of the pocket. Then I was remembering the point on the OB and then I was coming back to the Cue ball with my eyes on that point and I was shooting without looking on the pocket. Was ok, but sometimes I was missing like a crazy..

Second one was: I was standing behind the CB and I was looking at the reference line from pocket to the ball, then I lean, looked at: OB - Middle of pocket - OB - M of P and then I was coming back with my eyes slowly on OB - then when I had I point I was shooting. Worked quite OK, but still sometimes shots were completly of the line, OR I was loosing the point (which was irritating).

Third one was: Reference line while I was standing behind the CB, then throwing my eyes from: Middle of the pocket - Point on OB - Middle of the pocket - Point on the OB - and then I was shooting.
Was good, for couple of days, and my eye were loosing the point on OB, or getting it wrong.

Now I watched Steve Davis on Youtube, while he was talking about Ghost ball and hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones.
But I can't really see Pros using that kind of system, because with the pocket so tight like in Diamond table, You have to perfecly know where to hit. Not just know the: hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones..


So my question is Are Pros using Ghostball system and hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones ? Or the aiming for I Point ?

Also, when I standing behind the CB, and I have got reference line which I lean according to her, what next I need to do ? Throw my eyes from pocket to OB, I coming back slowly ? Focus on the point on OB when I got it and do a pause, or just hit it ?
How to aim when I'm lean, behind CB ?

I've got my right eye dominated? Cue stick should be more to the right side, or center ?

Pro's don't use "Aiming Systems," they allow their sub conscious to create the angles. To do this their must be a consistent alignment between the cue ball and object ball. After this is done there's several ways to "Aim"

1)........the most challenging aspect of pool is to hit the cue ball straight and precise, not to "aim". This requires a structured "pre shot routine" that stresses feet/body alignment.

2).......pocket billiards is a miniature version of golf in many ways, it's not about aiming, it's about eliminating the misses to a point that they still go in the pocket. We guard against "The Big Miss"!!!

3).......'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[icem3n]

Hi guys
Second one was: I was standing behind the CB and I was looking at the reference line from pocket to the ball, then I lean, looked at: OB - Middle of pocket - OB - M of P and then I was coming back with my eyes slowly on OB - then when I had I point I was shooting. Worked quite OK, but still sometimes shots were completly of the line, OR I was loosing the point (which was irritating).
?

Cut shot induce throw. This is obvious if o/b is further away from the pocket. You might want to take that into account. So you need to aim to cut more for some cut shot.

Hi guys
Now I watched Steve Davis on Youtube, while he was talking about Ghost ball and hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones.
But I can't really see Pros using that kind of system, because with the pocket so tight like in Diamond table, You have to perfecly know where to hit. Not just know the: hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones..

So my question is Are Pros using Ghostball system and hitts like 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and thin ones ? Or the aiming for I Point ?

You need to understand and be able to recognise the type of angle if you want to use fractional aiming. Once you are able to recognise the different types of angles, adding fractional aiming to your arsenal can make you a awesome shooter on a pool table. There are only 5 angles that you need to master. :wink:

 

[icem3n]

One last thing, make sure your are shooting dead centre on the c/b (that is if you are not intending to play english).

 

[Hustlin-Felice]

Pro's don't use "Aiming Systems," they allow their sub conscious to create the angles. To do this their must be a consistent alignment between the cue ball and object ball. After this is done there's several ways to "Aim"

1)........the most challenging aspect of pool is to hit the cue ball straight and precise, not to "aim". This requires a structured "pre shot routine" that stresses feet/body alignment.

2).......pocket billiards is a miniature version of golf in many ways, it's not about aiming, it's about eliminating the misses to a point that they still go in the pocket. We guard against "The Big Miss"!!!

3).......'The Game is the Teacher'

Thank you CJ. I really appreciate that you respond to my question.

But when you said that Pros don't use Aiming system, I want to ask you how You see the shots when you playing.

When for example you have got a cut shot to execute.

Like them:

1.What are You doing? How you see or know where to exactly hit the OB ?
Do you know this while you standing behind the CB, or you alignment behind the OB to Middle of pocket.

2.When you already lean to the shot where you looking? Do you eyes stay still on the point on OB? They going from pocket to OB to check the shooting path ? During that what are you thinking about?

I agree that it is not finishing on the aiming, the most difficult is to shoot straight where you wanted.

I also got some issues with it some times.
Sometime I do feel that my right hand (the one which holds the cue) doesn't feel to move straight, or either its seems like... ymm, its shaking?

3. What can I do to help my store hit where I want to? Does the pause is necessary to do before the hit ?

4.The last move- the shooting stroke, sopouste to be like any other, or slower, sort of like pulling arrow ?

5. How long you staying leaning on the table?

I will really appreciate if you will find some time to answer my questions.

I know the game is a teacher, but my brain is a bursar.

 

[Pushout]

Running for popcorn!

 

[dr_dave]

Check out the DAM aiming system. I honestly believe that most pros use a form of DAM, even if they might not describe what they do using the same title or words (e.g., see the How the Pros Aim article), and even though they might say something totally different (either on purpose or just because they might have a difficult time trying to describe something they have always just done naturally most of the lives).

For more info, illustrations, analysis, and demonstrations dealing with various aiming systems, see the aiming systems resource page.

Enjoy DAM, and good luck with your game,
Dave

 

[Hustlin-Felice]

Check out the DAM aiming system. I honestly believe that most pros use a form of DAM, even if they might not describe what they do using the same title or words (e.g., see the How the Pros Aim article), and even though they might say something totally different (either on purpose or just because they might have a difficult time trying to describe something they have always just done naturally most of the lives).

For more info, illustrations, analysis, and demonstrations dealing with various aiming systems, see the aiming systems resource page.

Enjoy DAM, and good luck with your game,
Dave

Thank you Dr Dave I will definitely pay attention, and spend time studying this.
thank you

 

[duckie]

Why do you care what some else uses? They are not you. You are you and as such need to find what works for you, and not works for someone else.

This requires a lot of trail and error. Trying this and that, finding what is your style of play, what suits your style of play.

It could be a little of this for this type of shot, little of that for this other type of shot and so on.

You as well as all players need to devolp your system. This takes time and dedication.

The journey to excellence in pool is life long. Do not try to put a time frame on your devolpment. It will come over time. This is the hardest thing about pool, the time needed to become really, really good. Nowadays, must people want it now, that ain't gonna happen in pool.

Read, try different things, but the real devolpment will not start to happen until you find your style of play and then stick to it. It is not the system used but how well you use the system that matters.

Oh, others will try to use other sports to equate to how it's done in pool, don't fall for this. Executing a pool shot has nothing in common with any other sports. This view takes away the uniqueness of pool, well there is one thing in common and that's just mental aspect of performing well which is not the same as the physical aspects.

 

[Neil]

Why do you care what some else uses? They are not you. You are you and as such need to find what works for you, and not works for someone else.

This requires a lot of trail and error. Trying this and that, finding what is your style of play, what suits your style of play.

It could be a little of this for this type of shot, little of that for this other type of shot and so on.

You as well as all players need to devolp your system. This takes time and dedication.

The journey to excellence in pool is life long. Do not try to put a time frame on your devolpment. It will come over time. This is the hardest thing about pool, the time needed to become really, really good. Nowadays, must people want it now, that ain't gonna happen in pool.

Read, try different things, but the real devolpment will not start to happen until you find your style of play and then stick to it. It is not the system used but how well you use the system that matters.

Oh, others will try to use other sports to equate to how it's done in pool, don't fall for this. Executing a pool shot has nothing in common with any other sports. This view takes away the uniqueness of pool, well there is one thing in common and that's just mental aspect of performing well which is not the same as the physical aspects.

I do believe that is the best post you have made on here! Well said!

 

[nobcitypool]

I do believe that is the best post you have made on here! Well said!

Given it's the only sensible post he's ever made, that is a rhetorical statement.

 

[naji]

Pro's don't use "Aiming Systems," they allow their sub conscious to create the angles. To do this their must be a consistent alignment between the cue ball and object ball. After this is done there's several ways to "Aim"

1)........the most challenging aspect of pool is to hit the cue ball straight and precise, not to "aim". This requires a structured "pre shot routine" that stresses feet/body alignment.

2).......pocket billiards is a miniature version of golf in many ways, it's not about aiming, it's about eliminating the misses to a point that they still go in the pocket. We guard against "The Big Miss"!!!

3).......'The Game is the Teacher'

Thanks CJ, IMO, examples of sub conscious activities is knowing how to walk, or talk, or the instinct to stay a live and avoid danger, ability to see, hear, feel and so on, basically things we have no control over, our body is programmed no matter what, and one will be in big trouble if one of these activities fails. Playing pool in general, and position for a shot specifically is way far from sub conscious, it is in the 100% conscious mind, one have to think how to get to OBs 3 or 4 balls a head, at times positions of OBs so easy or multiple pockets available no thinking is needed.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Thanks CJ, IMO, examples of sub conscious activities is knowing how to walk, or talk, or the instinct to stay a live and avoid danger, ability to see, hear, feel and so on, basically things we have no control over, our body is programmed no matter what, and one will be in big trouble if one of these activities fails. Playing pool in general, and position for a shot specifically is way far from sub conscious, it is in the 100% conscious mind, one have to think how to get to OBs 3 or 4 balls a head, at times positions of OBs so easy or multiple pockets available no thinking is needed.

On every shot a player needs to use their conscious mind to determine what they are going to do but then they need to let the subconscious mind execute. Once you know your plan you then use the (SFT) process... See, Feel, Trust. After much practice the act of lining up the shot, dropping into the shot, and shooting with the correct speed and cueing is as much a subconscious act as walking is... It doesn't take much if any thought... you simply see it feel it and trust that you will do it.

This means if you are down on the ball and you begin to doubt if you are using the correct cueing or lined up right, you need to get back up and start over. If there is any overlap in your conscious analyzing and subconscious execution then you greatly lessen your chances for a successful outcome because you are executing at a conscious level and the conscious mind is not nearly as capable of calculating and coordinating all of the factors needed to perform the action you have pictured in your head.


P.S. If you learn this, or want to learn it, I will teach and/or test you... for a hefty fee... and you can become an official member of the family of SFT instructors. (Just joking of course)

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

IMHO Pro use expierence of a gazillion hour of table time, to shot the shoot.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Pro's don't use "Aiming Systems," they allow their sub conscious to create the angles. To do this their must be a consistent alignment between the cue ball and object ball. After this is done there's several ways to "Aim"
1)........the most challenging aspect of pool is to hit the cue ball straight and precise, not to "aim". This requires a structured "pre shot routine" that stresses feet/body alignment.
2).......pocket billiards is a miniature version of golf in many ways, it's not about aiming, it's about eliminating the misses to a point that they still go in the pocket. We guard against "The Big Miss"!!!
3).......'The Game is the Teacher'

Where were you during the big aiming war, a few years back? Thousands of lives were lost and countless more were severely injured. I myself was twice wounded.
Us anti-aimers could have used you. :smile:

By-the-way, if you come through Springfield, Mo, stop in at Billiards, and I'll buy you a Hustler Club.

 

[fish on]

position can be taught+ speed by practice then that will make shots easier
maybe that is where we can get better easier!

just a thought

 

[CJ Wiley]

At the highest levels playing pool is much like driving a car

Thanks CJ, IMO, examples of sub conscious activities is knowing how to walk, or talk, or the instinct to stay a live and avoid danger, ability to see, hear, feel and so on, basically things we have no control over, our body is programmed no matter what, and one will be in big trouble if one of these activities fails. Playing pool in general, and position for a shot specifically is way far from sub conscious, it is in the 100% conscious mind, one have to think how to get to OBs 3 or 4 balls a head, at times positions of OBs so easy or multiple pockets available no thinking is needed.

At first pool is totally conscious, and as you get progress it becomes more and more subconscious. We can actually perform at our best without being aware of the "thought process". I once won 17 straight games in the finals of a tournament and only remember one shot, and I missed it.

At the highest levels playing pool is much like driving a car, it takes time and practice to develop the various skills, and once they develop it's best to "allow" them to flow into driving performance rather than thinking about breaking, accelerating, shifting, etc.

When I'm playing a lot I develop the ability to go into a "zone" or "trance" like state and will not remember many shots during the course of a match. Sometimes for hours all the "shot" run together ... almost like they were part of a dream.

These techniques are described in 'Zen in the Art of Archery' and 'The Inner Game of Tennis' if anyone wants to pursue more on this subject.

This takes dedicated practice and an understanding of how to "bridge" the conscious with the subconscious mind.......and the bridge is usually developed through breathing and some form of meditation. 'The Game Becomes Our Teacher'

 

[CJ Wiley]

.I only use relative points that can be seen.....not imagined.

Thank you CJ. I really appreciate that you respond to my question.

But when you said that Pros don't use Aiming system, I want to ask you how You see the shots when you playing.

When for example you have got a cut shot to execute.

Like them:

1.What are You doing? How you see or know where to exactly hit the OB ?
Do you know this while you standing behind the CB, or you alignment behind the OB to Middle of pocket.

2.When you already lean to the shot where you looking? Do you eyes stay still on the point on OB? They going from pocket to OB to check the shooting path ? During that what are you thinking about?

I agree that it is not finishing on the aiming, the most difficult is to shoot straight where you wanted.

I also got some issues with it some times.
Sometime I do feel that my right hand (the one which holds the cue) doesn't feel to move straight, or either its seems like... ymm, its shaking?

3. What can I do to help my store hit where I want to? Does the pause is necessary to do before the hit ?

4.The last move- the shooting stroke, sopouste to be like any other, or slower, sort of like pulling arrow ?

5. How long you staying leaning on the table?

I will really appreciate if you will find some time to answer my questions.

I know the game is a teacher, but my brain is a bursar.

We do use personalized "aiming systems," however, it's different than just "point and click" because there's several variables.

First there's the connection you visually create between the cue ball and the object ball.....this must be consistent every shot no matter what the angle you're creating.

Second, there's the target you're aiming at on the cue ball, this effects how the cue ball with react or move between the tip and the object ball's conact.

Third, there's the speed you hit the shot that will also effect how much the cue ball moves off line.

I try to keep these three factors as closely related and consistent on each shot as possible. This creates a foundation that I can use to make ALL the shots and treat them as if they're all the same.

I explain my Ultimate Aiming System in my Ultimate Pool Secrets Video and get more advanced in my 'Touch of Inside' and 'TIPS' Banking Secrets.....they are all showing how to create angles without "contact points" or "ghost balls".....I only use relative points that can be seen.....not imagined.

I would address your examples more specifically, but some of these things MUST be experienced, not "figured out"......I gave you the basic guidelines that I use, and the videos go into more detail in explanation and demonstration {on the table}.

 

[Jaden]

You have to use trial and error with a purpose...

Why do you care what some else uses? They are not you. You are you and as such need to find what works for you, and not works for someone else.

This requires a lot of trail and error. Trying this and that, finding what is your style of play, what suits your style of play.

It could be a little of this for this type of shot, little of that for this other type of shot and so on.

You as well as all players need to devolp your system. This takes time and dedication.

The journey to excellence in pool is life long. Do not try to put a time frame on your devolpment. It will come over time. This is the hardest thing about pool, the time needed to become really, really good. Nowadays, must people want it now, that ain't gonna happen in pool.

Read, try different things, but the real devolpment will not start to happen until you find your style of play and then stick to it. It is not the system used but how well you use the system that matters.

Oh, others will try to use other sports to equate to how it's done in pool, don't fall for this. Executing a pool shot has nothing in common with any other sports. This view takes away the uniqueness of pool, well there is one thing in common and that's just mental aspect of performing well which is not the same as the physical aspects.

Dr Dave is right... Today is the first time I've read about DAM... I love the intro, so hilarious and true...


Now some points to make regarding DAM...

1) when most people talk about aiming systems, they are referring to just and ONLY that... AIMING... DAM actually addresses what most people are ACTUALLY looking for when looking for an aiming system... accurately potting balls.

2) Unfortunately, while perfectly accurate in it's statements, DAM actually doesn't address the requisite steps in getting to the realization that is required for DAM to work consistently for someone.

Greatness in pool is achieved in incremental epiphanies. Over time, with practice and "attained knowledge" You'll have little epiphanies of understanding that will cause your understanding and therefore, your execution in the game to jump.

The amount of time and practice that is required in order to achieve these epiphanies varies from person to person and can be shortened by learning from those who already have achieved these epiphanies.

The problem with trying to shorten the time is that different people are at different levels of knowledge and understanding and some of the epiphanies are actually wrong in the stages of development when compared to later stages. In other words, at one stage of development in understanding, you may be right to think a certain thing is happening, while at a later stage you realize that it was entirely wrong.

This is where you have different people who are at a high level disagreeing with each other so adamantly.

When I teach, what I teach is either generalized for all stages of development or it is catered to the individuals current stage.

I'll teach beginners ghost ball aiming methods, and intermediate and advanced players how to find both contact points or intersect to edge aiming etc.

The ultimate stage is having so much knowledge and so much CORRECT experience that you don't have to use any systems during actual play and you just see and know what you have to do and it is this stage that DAM most accurately addresses.

That doesn't mean that the other stages are meaningless or can't be used effectively or aren't even necessary for most people in order to advance.

As far as the claims of some of the aiming systems proponents goes, you have to take over commercialization of something with a grain of salt, but who knows, that could be the thing that allows you to hit that final epiphany and get to the final stage or "THE ZONE"...

Have fun

Jaden

p.s. there is no SHORT CUT. The best players have a combination of good hand eye, excellent visual spacial skills and LOTS AND LOTS OF PRACTICE... The emphasis being on the last of those three...