Aiming system? Does Pros using "Ghost Ball" (1/4,1/2,3/4) Or Looking for Point ?!!!

[Hustlin-Felice]

We do use personalized "aiming systems," however, it's different than just "point and click" because there's several variables.

First there's the connection you visually create between the cue ball and the object ball.....this must be consistent every shot no matter what the angle you're creating.

Second, there's the target you're aiming at on the cue ball, this effects how the cue ball with react or move between the tip and the object ball's conact.

Third, there's the speed you hit the shot that will also effect how much the cue ball moves off line.

I try to keep these three factors as closely related and consistent on each shot as possible. This creates a foundation that I can use to make ALL the shots and treat them as if they're all the same.

I explain my Ultimate Aiming System in my Ultimate Pool Secrets Video and get more advanced in my 'Touch of Inside' and 'TIPS' Banking Secrets.....they are all showing how to create angles without "contact points" or "ghost balls".....I only use relative points that can be seen.....not imagined.

I would address your examples more specifically, but some of these things MUST be experienced, not "figured out"......I gave you the basic guidelines that I use, and the videos go into more detail in explanation and demonstration {on the table}.

At the highest levels playing pool is much like driving a car, it takes time and practice to develop the various skills, and once they develop it's best to "allow" them to flow into driving performance rather than thinking about breaking, accelerating, shifting, etc.

Thank you CJ, I see what you mean now.
I have to say that for most of the time I was just monitoring the path between the OB and pocket, without checking the route CB-OB.
Plus I think I was thinking, and checking to much, just like bursar. I could do so natural, but I was holding my instincts. Which I see now was a quite big mistake.

I will definitely bring this to the table, and study, Ultimate Aiming System, 'Touch of Inside', 'TIPS' Banking Secrets.

Really appreciate you help.

Thanks

 

[Vahmurka]

this thread is into second page already and still not in an Aiming forum section

 

[CreeDo]

A few pros do use aiming systems, I was surprised recently to find out Brandon Shuff advocates CTE/Pro1
but has only been working with it a short while. If you find one that works for you, go for it.

I believe pool is mostly a visual game. You see two spheres overlapping (cue ball and object ball)
and they're different sizes (further object balls appear smaller).
Your brain is just constantly comparing those two balls, from previous shots it remembers.
And it will also use the rails and other clues to help recall.

So what happens when your experience is limited and you have a shot
you've only seen 20 times instead of 1,000 times?
There are many ways you can still make this type of shot, despite the lack of experience.

• Your brain lumps it together with a similar shot.

• You use a visualization trick to help you guess the correct aiming line... for example, imagining a line
passing from the pocket out the back of the ball. Or a ghost ball.

• You use an aiming system that is geometrically accurate. For example you know this shot in front of you
is about 30 degrees and the aiming system says that's a half-ball hit. I believe most aiming systems
aren't perfect in geometry but they help you in another way:

• You use an aiming system that helps you "tap into" the visualization tricks, or tap into your brain's
memory of the 20 times you shot the ball in the past. Maybe the system gets you close and your
small amount of experience takes care of the rest on an unusual cut shot. The system may also
give you confidence, a lot of shots are missed from fear causing a little hitch
in your stroke. I call it the 'fear steer'.

--

As my game has gotten better, I am becoming a bigger and bigger fan of "visualization tricks".
It's 100% fine to use different tricks for different shots. And even mix some aiming systems
and other things. After 10 years of pool you know where to aim most cuts.
Aiming systems and visualization tricks can help unlock that info.
You still need to deliver the cue ball straight though and to be honest that's the hardest part.

A few visualization tricks that helped me a lot:

I used to miss this short but thin cut into the corner, shot A. I'd never miss shot B in a million years.
But they're the same shot, same angle, same distance... just different pockets.
So I pretend the corner pocket is a side pocket.
Technically the corner is smaller, but I don't worry about it and make the shot.

Long thin cuts with object ball near the head rail:
I imagine getting the edges of the balls to barely overlap. But often this would undercut.
I was scared of overcutting and whiffing the ball entirely (resulting in ball in hand possibly).
So I learned to shoot it with a touch of inside. I deflect the cue ball a little, causing a thinner hit.
At the same time I know that with inside spin, if I overcut the ball (whiffing entirely) I won't give up
ball in hand because the cue ball will spin towards the object ball off the rail.
Without the fear of overcut, I make the ball more.

Most cuts I imagine a vertical line dividing the object ball into undercut and overcut sides.
The overcut side is darker in my imagination for some reason.
I aim to make the cue ball hit right on the line, not touching either "half" of the ball.

And here's the laser thing. The red line exits the back of the OB, that's my contact point.
I imagine being able to see through the cue ball, and making a similar contact point
on the cue ball touch the contact point on the OB.

 

[dr_dave]

Check out the DAM aiming system. I honestly believe that most pros use a form of DAM, even if they might not describe what they do using the same title or words (e.g., see the How the Pros Aim article), and even though they might say something totally different (either on purpose or just because they might have a difficult time trying to describe something they have always just done naturally most of the lives).

For more info, illustrations, analysis, and demonstrations dealing with various aiming systems, see the aiming systems resource page.

Enjoy DAM, and good luck with your game,
Dave

Dr Dave is right... Today is the first time I've read about DAM... I love the intro, so hilarious and true...

Now some points to make regarding DAM...

1) when most people talk about aiming systems, they are referring to just and ONLY that... AIMING... DAM actually addresses what most people are ACTUALLY looking for when looking for an aiming system... accurately potting balls.

2) Unfortunately, while perfectly accurate in it's statements, DAM actually doesn't address the requisite steps in getting to the realization that is required for DAM to work consistently for someone.

Greatness in pool is achieved in incremental epiphanies. Over time, with practice and "attained knowledge" You'll have little epiphanies of understanding that will cause your understanding and therefore, your execution in the game to jump.

The amount of time and practice that is required in order to achieve these epiphanies varies from person to person and can be shortened by learning from those who already have achieved these epiphanies.

The problem with trying to shorten the time is that different people are at different levels of knowledge and understanding and some of the epiphanies are actually wrong in the stages of development when compared to later stages. In other words, at one stage of development in understanding, you may be right to think a certain thing is happening, while at a later stage you realize that it was entirely wrong.

This is where you have different people who are at a high level disagreeing with each other so adamantly.

When I teach, what I teach is either generalized for all stages of development or it is catered to the individuals current stage.

I'll teach beginners ghost ball aiming methods, and intermediate and advanced players how to find both contact points or intersect to edge aiming etc.

The ultimate stage is having so much knowledge and so much CORRECT experience that you don't have to use any systems during actual play and you just see and know what you have to do and it is this stage that DAM most accurately addresses.

That doesn't mean that the other stages are meaningless or can't be used effectively or aren't even necessary for most people in order to advance.

As far as the claims of some of the aiming systems proponents goes, you have to take over commercialization of something with a grain of salt, but who knows, that could be the thing that allows you to hit that final epiphany and get to the final stage or "THE ZONE"...

Have fun

Jaden

p.s. there is no SHORT CUT. The best players have a combination of good hand eye, excellent visual spacial skills and LOTS AND LOTS OF PRACTICE... The emphasis being on the last of those three...

Excellent post! I agree 100%. Maybe its time to revise and improve DAM a little.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Wybrook]

The problem with "aiming systems" is that they don't really work.

The issue lies with incidental english when the CB hits the OB at any angle, and when you apply english to the CB.

Even though you think you have the correct spot picked out to shoot for, there are almost infinite amount of spots to actually strike the OB depending on speed, english, etc. There are also different spots to actually point the CB depending on speed, spin, etc.

All you have to do is shoot every shot a zillion times, really..(that's what i did)

There is methodology you can use to systematically practice shots and get used to variations, but it takes time. No easy answer...

 

[Hustlin-Felice]

A few pros do use aiming systems, I was surprised recently to find out Brandon Shuff advocates CTE/Pro1
but has only been working with it a short while. If you find one that works for you, go for it.

I believe pool is mostly a visual game. You see two spheres overlapping (cue ball and object ball)
and they're different sizes (further object balls appear smaller).
Your brain is just constantly comparing those two balls, from previous shots it remembers.
And it will also use the rails and other clues to help recall.

So what happens when your experience is limited and you have a shot
you've only seen 20 times instead of 1,000 times?
There are many ways you can still make this type of shot, despite the lack of experience.

• Your brain lumps it together with a similar shot.

• You use a visualization trick to help you guess the correct aiming line... for example, imagining a line
passing from the pocket out the back of the ball. Or a ghost ball.

• You use an aiming system that is geometrically accurate. For example you know this shot in front of you
is about 30 degrees and the aiming system says that's a half-ball hit. I believe most aiming systems
aren't perfect in geometry but they help you in another way:

• You use an aiming system that helps you "tap into" the visualization tricks, or tap into your brain's
memory of the 20 times you shot the ball in the past. Maybe the system gets you close and your
small amount of experience takes care of the rest on an unusual cut shot. The system may also
give you confidence, a lot of shots are missed from fear causing a little hitch
in your stroke. I call it the 'fear steer'.

--

As my game has gotten better, I am becoming a bigger and bigger fan of "visualization tricks".
It's 100% fine to use different tricks for different shots. And even mix some aiming systems
and other things. After 10 years of pool you know where to aim most cuts.
Aiming systems and visualization tricks can help unlock that info.
You still need to deliver the cue ball straight though and to be honest that's the hardest part.

A few visualization tricks that helped me a lot:

I used to miss this short but thin cut into the corner, shot A. I'd never miss shot B in a million years.
But they're the same shot, same angle, same distance... just different pockets.
So I pretend the corner pocket is a side pocket.
Technically the corner is smaller, but I don't worry about it and make the shot.

Long thin cuts with object ball near the head rail:
I imagine getting the edges of the balls to barely overlap. But often this would undercut.
I was scared of overcutting and whiffing the ball entirely (resulting in ball in hand possibly).
So I learned to shoot it with a touch of inside. I deflect the cue ball a little, causing a thinner hit.
At the same time I know that with inside spin, if I overcut the ball (whiffing entirely) I won't give up
ball in hand because the cue ball will spin towards the object ball off the rail.
Without the fear of overcut, I make the ball more.

Most cuts I imagine a vertical line dividing the object ball into undercut and overcut sides.
The overcut side is darker in my imagination for some reason.
I aim to make the cue ball hit right on the line, not touching either "half" of the ball.

And here's the laser thing. The red line exits the back of the OB, that's my contact point.
I imagine being able to see through the cue ball, and making a similar contact point
on the cue ball touch the contact point on the OB.

Thanks CreeDo, that is very intresting post. I Was actually doing similar thing which you with "laser thing", being able to see through.



But, today I was watching Ronnie O'Sullivan on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jydw-f3JJzk

And what I spotted was that Ronie before he lean to the shot (1.)looks from pocket to -> the OB.
(2.) Then knowing the point or area, he leans to the shot.
(3.) And then he looks at: Point(or Area) on OB --> CB --> Point(or Area) on OB --> Then he shot.
Step 3 In let's say 90% of he's shots, taking [Point(or Area) on OB --> CB --> Point(or Area) on OB -->] - 1 full stroke, and then 2 - it is a shot.

I tried this out today, and my result were pretty nice I have to say :smile: But I have to say that before, I was never ever checking the path between CB and OB, (just Pocket and OB). Plus I was doing like 3/4 sometimes 5 storke for executing the shot. Which I starting to believe was I mistake cause it when you lean for too long you are not so comfortable, your arms and back doesn't like this plus when you looking too much at The OB your eyes getting tried and loosing The Point (or area). Plus the uncertainty breaks into.


You can read that from his eyes, but you need to focus because the makes shots very quickly. It is well shown when camera is next to him, and he makes cut shots. After he lean on table he does not look at the pocket anymore.

 

[Godfather]

You also have to consider the thing that is much more difficult than knowing where to aim. If you take a long distance straight in ball, you can aim for the bottom, where it touches the felt, and be guaranteed to be aiming correctly. Not a lot of guys make it really consistently. I think that learning how to aim is the least of your worries and that people get that mostly down in the first couple months. Not to mention all the variables previously mentioned with speed, english, etc. When you can make a length of the table straight in a hundred times in a row on a 9 footer, but can't make other shots, go ahead and learn how to aim. Until then, you've got more important problems.

 

[mohrt]

The problem with "aiming systems" is that they don't really work.

The issue lies with incidental english when the CB hits the OB at any angle, and when you apply english to the CB.

Even though you think you have the correct spot picked out to shoot for, there are almost infinite amount of spots to actually strike the OB depending on speed, english, etc. There are also different spots to actually point the CB depending on speed, spin, etc.

All you have to do is shoot every shot a zillion times, really..(that's what i did)

There is methodology you can use to systematically practice shots and get used to variations, but it takes time. No easy answer...

Of course they work, but only as intended. That is, they give you a geometric point of reference to work from. If you can always start with center pocket, that gives you maximum wiggle room for all the nuances of pool outside of just the aim. Good thing the pockets are quite a bit wider than the balls.

You always have to apply your experience along with the aim to make everything come together. ie. pocket the ball and get the cueball where you want it. These nuances are typically minimized to unconscious effort through experience hitting the shot. That goes for aiming too. Aiming systems are not a substitute for experience and practice, however they can shorten the path to ball pocketing proficiency. They are a means to an end.

 

[randyg]

Of course they work, but only as intended. That is, they give you a geometric point of reference to work from. If you can always start with center pocket, that gives you maximum wiggle room for all the nuances of pool outside of just the aim. Good thing the pockets are quite a bit wider than the balls.

You always have to apply your experience along with the aim to make everything come together. ie. pocket the ball and get the cueball where you want it. These nuances are typically minimized to unconscious effort through experience hitting the shot. That goes for aiming too. Aiming systems are not a substitute for experience and practice, however they can shorten the path to ball pocketing proficiency. They are a means to an end.

AMEN!

randyg

 

[Ralph Kramden]

The problem with "aiming systems" is that they don't really work.

The issue lies with incidental english when the CB hits the OB at any angle, and when you apply english to the CB.

Even though you think you have the correct spot picked out to shoot for, there are almost infinite amount of spots to actually strike the OB depending on speed, english, etc. There are also different spots to actually point the CB depending on speed, spin, etc.

All you have to do is shoot every shot a zillion times, really..(that's what i did)

There is methodology you can use to systematically practice shots and get used to variations, but it takes time. No easy answer...

To be a fast player, hit a million balls. Think I've only hit about 1/2 million.. 'cause they say I'm a half fast player.

 

[duckie]

What is commonly overlooked is there are two categories of shots that a aiming system......rather aiming visualization methods must support. They are direct and indirect shots.

Direct is when the cb path to the OB is completely clear, direct. Indirect is when the cb path to the ob iis not completely clear, indirect.

Direct shots are common place. They are what most people experience playing 8/9 ball.

A bank falls between direct/indirect. Direct in hat the cb/OB path is clear, but the OB path to the pocket is not direct, it hits a rail first.

Indirect shots are the cb going rail first then hitting the cb, a combo, carom.

The value of a aiming visualization method is how well indirect shots are supported. Does the method used provide a clear picture of where to put the cb?

Safety play is indirect shots. In 14.1 and 1 pocket, sometimes the purpose of the shot is not to pocket a ball, but to put balls in a certain position as not the leave a shot. How can a center pocket system be used?

How can fractional (cb/OB overlapping discs) be used when the cb hits the first then the OB or when you must go two rails to hit a OB as is the case in 9 ball safet play at times.

Consider these things when evaluating a visualization method, try these indirect shots, experience how well it works.

Ghostball can be applied to both indirect and direct shots. There is another truism in shot making, there is only one spot on the table that will make the cb go center pocket regardless of the cb angle to the OB.

Using Babe Cranfields arrow, this can be demonstrated. The point of the arrow represents that one spot on the table that makes the OB go where you want, that spot is the Ghostball contact patch.

In achieving pool execellance, the end is when you quit. In others words, there is no end to trying to play your best.....therefore no " system" can be a means to a end, ie playing your best. It's practice, practice, practice......I'll add structured practice and not willy nilly , just hit the balls type.

Example, I put one OB on the table, go two rails with the cb then hit the OB. To this day, I've never seen anyone else do this. This knowledge had come in handy play 9 ball. I'll play a two rail safe on the person, 9 times out of 10, I get BIH. And they quickly learn, I'm pretty deadly on going two rails in reply to a safety.

This is what I meant in my earlier post about your style go play...I'm deadly at one rail banks, not because of using Ghostball, but because I spent hours hitting one rail banks, I love combos, but I practice them. One practice drill I do is called bank, carom or combo. These are the only shots allowed during the practice session. Doing this drill will help you to start seeing these shots more, as you practice them and get better, your confidence in executing them will go up and before players will start calling you bank master or hear "damn I thought I had you hooked" when you perform a carom.

Again, I never seen anyone else do the bank, carom combo drill, yet these same people wonder how I can be so consistent in executing those shots.

It's my style, my visualization skills, practice regime, my long hours at the table and away, I just took 5 months off, that made my game what it is, not Ghostball.

Until the simple fact that how well you can play pool is on you and not the system, you will only get so far. It really jusy boils down to just you, hard thing for some people to accept.

When you missed, what failed, the system or you? Some will say the system, these types are excuse makers.

If you say you failed, you got potential. Accepting the results of poor execution and then doing something about it is how you grow in pool and life really.

Playing best is not beating the local hot stick, but pushing your skill level past those around you. Problem with this, they'll stop playing you.

 

[mohrt]

What is commonly overlooked is there are two categories of shots that a aiming system......rather aiming visualization methods must support. They are direct and indirect shots.

Direct is when the cb path to the OB is completely clear, direct. Indirect is when the cb path to the ob iis not completely clear, indirect.

Direct shots are common place. They are what most people experience playing 8/9 ball.

A bank falls between direct/indirect. Direct in hat the cb/OB path is clear, but the OB path to the pocket is not direct, it hits a rail first.

Indirect shots are the cb going rail first then hitting the cb, a combo, carom.

The value of a aiming visualization method is how well indirect shots are supported. Does the method used provide a clear picture of where to put the cb?

Safety play is indirect shots. In 14.1 and 1 pocket, sometimes the purpose of the shot is not to pocket a ball, but to put balls in a certain position as not the leave a shot. How can a center pocket system be used?

How can fractional (cb/OB overlapping discs) be used when the cb hits the first then the OB or when you must go two rails to hit a OB as is the case in 9 ball safet play at times.

Consider these things when evaluating a visualization method, try these indirect shots, experience how well it works.

Ghostball can be applied to both indirect and direct shots. There is another truism in shot making, there is only one spot on the table that will make the cb go center pocket regardless of the cb angle to the OB.

Using Babe Cranfields arrow, this can be demonstrated. The point of the arrow represents that one spot on the table that makes the OB go where you want, that spot is the Ghostball contact patch.

In achieving pool execellance, the end is when you quit. In others words, there is no end to trying to play your best.....therefore no " system" can be a means to a end, ie playing your best. It's practice, practice, practice......I'll add structured practice and not willy nilly , just hit the balls type.

Example, I put one OB on the table, go two rails with the cb then hit the OB. To this day, I've never seen anyone else do this. This knowledge had come in handy play 9 ball. I'll play a two rail safe on the person, 9 times out of 10, I get BIH. And they quickly learn, I'm pretty deadly on going two rails in reply to a safety.

This is what I meant in my earlier post about your style go play...I'm deadly at one rail banks, not because of using Ghostball, but because I spent hours hitting one rail banks, I love combos, but I practice them. One practice drill I do is called bank, carom or combo. These are the only shots allowed during the practice session. Doing this drill will help you to start seeing these shots more, as you practice them and get better, your confidence in executing them will go up and before players will start calling you bank master or hear "damn I thought I had you hooked" when you perform a carom.

Again, I never seen anyone else do the bank, carom combo drill, yet these same people wonder how I can be so consistent in executing those shots.

It's my style, my visualization skills, practice regime, my long hours at the table and away, I just took 5 months off, that made my game what it is, not Ghostball.

Until the simple fact that how well you can play pool is on you and not the system, you will only get so far. It really jusy boils down to just you, hard thing for some people to accept.

When you missed, what failed, the system or you? Some will say the system, these types are excuse makers.

If you say you failed, you got potential. Accepting the results of poor execution and then doing something about it is how you grow in pool and life really.

Playing best is not beating the local hot stick, but pushing your skill level past those around you. Problem with this, they'll stop playing you.

I'm not really sure what your point is. An aiming system covers a very specific aspect of the game, and usually its about putting an object ball into a pocket. Topics outside of that (including kicks, combos, caroms, safes, mental game, etc) have their own helpful systems and strategies.

Means to and end just means that at some point this stuff moves from the conscious to the subconscious. ie. you don't have to think about "aiming". You can get there hitting a million balls or with another system, whatever you choose. Of course there is always room for improvement, "means to an end" does not equate to "done learning"

I'd like to see some videos of your amazing bank and kick skills too, it should be enlightening to see the master at work!

 

[Neil]

Duckie, I have to assume that you meant something other than what you wrote....are you really saying you have never seen anyone do two rail kick shots?

If that's what you meant to say, there are plenty of videos with kick shots in them in the Billiard University thread. Maybe it's something you would like to attempt some time. Also, you can google "kick shots", and there are many you-tube videos with kick shots in them.

 

[AtLarge]

Duckie, I have to assume that you meant something other than what you wrote....are you really saying you have never seen anyone do two rail kick shots?

If that's what you meant to say, there are plenty of videos with kick shots in them in the Billiard University thread. Maybe it's something you would like to attempt some time. Also, you can google "kick shots", and there are many you-tube videos with kick shots in them.

I imagine he just means he hasn't seen anyone else doing a practice routine of 2-rail kick shots over and over (for an unstated length of time).

 

[SpiderWebComm]

What is commonly overlooked is there are two categories of shots that a aiming system......rather aiming visualization methods must support. They are direct and indirect shots.

Direct is when the cb path to the OB is completely clear, direct. Indirect is when the cb path to the ob iis not completely clear, indirect.

Direct shots are common place. They are what most people experience playing 8/9 ball.

A bank falls between direct/indirect. Direct in hat the cb/OB path is clear, but the OB path to the pocket is not direct, it hits a rail first.

Indirect shots are the cb going rail first then hitting the cb, a combo, carom.

The value of a aiming visualization method is how well indirect shots are supported. Does the method used provide a clear picture of where to put the cb?

Safety play is indirect shots. In 14.1 and 1 pocket, sometimes the purpose of the shot is not to pocket a ball, but to put balls in a certain position as not the leave a shot. How can a center pocket system be used?

How can fractional (cb/OB overlapping discs) be used when the cb hits the first then the OB or when you must go two rails to hit a OB as is the case in 9 ball safet play at times.

Consider these things when evaluating a visualization method, try these indirect shots, experience how well it works.

Ghostball can be applied to both indirect and direct shots. There is another truism in shot making, there is only one spot on the table that will make the cb go center pocket regardless of the cb angle to the OB.

Using Babe Cranfields arrow, this can be demonstrated. The point of the arrow represents that one spot on the table that makes the OB go where you want, that spot is the Ghostball contact patch.

In achieving pool execellance, the end is when you quit. In others words, there is no end to trying to play your best.....therefore no " system" can be a means to a end, ie playing your best. It's practice, practice, practice......I'll add structured practice and not willy nilly , just hit the balls type.

Example, I put one OB on the table, go two rails with the cb then hit the OB. To this day, I've never seen anyone else do this. This knowledge had come in handy play 9 ball. I'll play a two rail safe on the person, 9 times out of 10, I get BIH. And they quickly learn, I'm pretty deadly on going two rails in reply to a safety.

This is what I meant in my earlier post about your style go play...I'm deadly at one rail banks, not because of using Ghostball, but because I spent hours hitting one rail banks, I love combos, but I practice them. One practice drill I do is called bank, carom or combo. These are the only shots allowed during the practice session. Doing this drill will help you to start seeing these shots more, as you practice them and get better, your confidence in executing them will go up and before players will start calling you bank master or hear "damn I thought I had you hooked" when you perform a carom.

Again, I never seen anyone else do the bank, carom combo drill, yet these same people wonder how I can be so consistent in executing those shots.

It's my style, my visualization skills, practice regime, my long hours at the table and away, I just took 5 months off, that made my game what it is, not Ghostball.

Until the simple fact that how well you can play pool is on you and not the system, you will only get so far. It really jusy boils down to just you, hard thing for some people to accept.

When you missed, what failed, the system or you? Some will say the system, these types are excuse makers.

If you say you failed, you got potential. Accepting the results of poor execution and then doing something about it is how you grow in pool and life really.

Playing best is not beating the local hot stick, but pushing your skill level past those around you. Problem with this, they'll stop playing you.

This isn't overlooked. Any of these systems can be used for any of your examples...you've been told this many times.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BeiberLvr]

Duckie

I'll play you some one pocket, and you can use your precious arrow on every shot.

 

[Ratta]

Of course they work, but only as intended. That is, they give you a geometric point of reference to work from. If you can always start with center pocket, that gives you maximum wiggle room for all the nuances of pool outside of just the aim. Good thing the pockets are quite a bit wider than the balls.

You always have to apply your experience along with the aim to make everything come together. ie. pocket the ball and get the cueball where you want it. These nuances are typically minimized to unconscious effort through experience hitting the shot. That goes for aiming too. Aiming systems are not a substitute for experience and practice, however they can shorten the path to ball pocketing proficiency. They are a means to an end.

Very well chosen words- excellent posting Sir

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Duckie-

Explain how your arrow makes kicking any easier than any other said method on planet earth?

For instance, on a 1 rail kick, a player has a million methods: spot on the wall, using the diamonds, mirroring, etc. Any of these are visual and also just a starting point -- none are exact on 100% of the tables as there are a bazillion factors that can affect the outcome. NONE of these would benefit from using your arrow....zero....stress ZERO.

For 2 rail kicks...same thing. Let's say you find the midpoint between the balls and the line from there to the pocket and parallel over to find your entrance to the hitting solution.... what good is your arrow? Where on earth are you placing your arrow?

Let's move-on to caroms because the kicking w/ the arrow concept is out the window. How on earth are you going to incorporate that concept during real play??

If the carom target is way forward of the 1st ball, I can insta-aim to a spot on the back of the cb and apply a lot of follow.

Or, if it's closer to the stun line, but still forward, you use CTE and pivot towards the pocket ensuring there's stun english -- this brings the CB to scratch in that pocket. From there, you use a tip of follow or draw per diamond until you hit the target.

If the target is on the same plane or behind, you split the difference and draw into it.

So again... where does your arrow provide any benefit to anything that you're describing? You keep saying how a ball pocketing system is weak because you can't kick and carom with it. You can still aim a CB quarter at the 1st rail point and pivot to center to get the most accurate (illusion-free) path to that point... but why the arrow? HOW w/ the arrow? Are you pointing your little arrow at that point?? Really????

That arrow is the weakest thing Babe ever spit out of his mouth. With thinner cuts, that contact patch concept looks the same from one angle to the next -- it gets farther away with super minute side movement.

In conclusion, your post is like me saying: "If your arrow can't shape your tip -- what good is it?" It's totally unrelated and has zero bearing on the discussion. Nobody's using an arrow (or that concept) to kick/carom EVER.

 

[Frii]

D.W. "Diamond Dave" Thayer, has 6 books out called Hotshotsplus that kinda like 1/4,1/2,3/4 aiming.

I'm not that good a pool and don't play alot but I do like books about aiming and trying them out on video pool.

This have nothing to do with hotshotplus. When I'm aiming on video pool I aim at an imaginary dot made by the mental line drawing between the object ball and the pocket. Standing behind the cue ball I mentally picture the cue ball impacting the object ball and try to figure out what point of the round surface will hit first. Then move that spot over to first imaginary dot. I'm still working it out some time because of collision induced throw it hit the side of the pocket.