Aiming System revisted
- Thread starter TheConArtist
- Start date
Koop said:
Koop, I made a mistake in my post -
"What matters is the final delivery and yes a proper stance helps and so many other things also, but it is delivery of the cue tip to the point intended that makes the difference."
Sould be delivery of the CB. This may have cause confusion. I believe that the CB is an extension of the player just as the cue stick is.
Koop said:
Nah, you misunderstand me. You were saying that the only thing that mattered was delivering the cue ball to the target. I agree with that, up to a point, but I definately feel that setup, stance and body position are a factor in doing that correctly and a tremendous aid. That's why about 99% of the top snooker players all look identical over the ball. That doesn't mean that it's not possible to play to a high standard with a different stance, but I would consider that an uphill battle.
Pete's analogy to golf is spot on, and I think illustrates what I'm trying to say. It's possible to approach a golf shot any way you want and hit the ball straight towards the target, but having proper fundamentals in your stance, grip, shoulder, and hip position is going to make that process a whole lot easier.
jsp said:
That must be why I failed geometry in school!
I have read somewhere that the half ball hit has the largest margin of error because the object ball will depart at pretty much the same angle for the widest range of possible hits. I guess this has something to do with collision dynamics, friction, and the behaviour of rolling objects. I can't do the math to prove it, although it does seem to match what I see at the table.
The maximum amount of english transfer occurs on very full hits. Straight shots can easily be missed because of this. It's often a good idea to use a little follow or draw to cancel unintentional side-spin. But you are right, this is a cueing error, not an aiming error.
im on the side of the fence with koop on this one lol. It seems to me we are talking 2 different things here. You guys are talking about how lining up to hit the ball ie stance, stroke, etc.......is important to making the ball, which i wholeheartedly agree with.....but i dont think that takes the place of or precludes you from using an aiming system, the 2 can operate separately. I can have a perfect robotic stroke that i deliver time and again, to precisely the same point on the cueball, delivering it to the same point on the object ball everytime, but if i havent selected the proper point on the object ball to hit, i wont make the shot. I dont know all the different aiming systems out there, I use the SAM system which is based on Hal Houles system. The SAM system is supereasy to use.......i look at the relations of the object ball to the pocket and to the cueball......i get my aiming point, then i hit that point with the cueball. I use the cuestick to help me aim and hit, but i suppose it could be done with the cueball as well.gromulan said:
Maybe i am misunderstanding some of the posts, but to me stance and stroke have nothing to do with where i aim.
I think you're confusing totally different principles. I think the "largest margin of error" pertaining to half-ball hits revolves around the 30 degree rule. The 30 degree rule focuses on where the CB goes after collision with the OB...it has nothing to do with pocketing the OB. It's true that you'll have a wide margin of error if you want to carom the CB off the OB at approximately 30 degrees (this only deals with a naturally rolling CB). I defer to Dr. Dave...Omar said:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/april04.pdf
If you go to Diagram 3 on page 3...you'll find the "bell curve" you were talking about.
Koop said:Thanks for the thumbs down. I guess the agreeable part is out the window.
You stand by your theory and I'll stick to mine.
In the case of stance, I still say it is meaningless. It is just however comfortable you are at the table. If stance was that important then every good player would look the same at the table and they do not.
The two things they have in common are: knowing where to aim and delivering the cueball to the point of contact. Other than those two things, in my opinion, well, it's like a dress on a pig
But you are basically saying the same thing he is. No two peoples stances are going to look exactly the same, or reach some ideal published in some book. The important thing is that it is repeatable. And that's where amateurs drop the ball. People have thrown out Bustamonte's behind the back shot as evidence that stance is not important. If that's true, why doesn't he shoot every shot that way?
The mecahnics of all good players share some important characteristics. You go to the U.S. Open this year and look at different players, and I guarantee you will see a lot less deviation than you do at your local pool hall tournament.
I think you are 100% correct about a good pre shot routine and having a good true stroke through the cue ball. Of course you have to aim at the correct spot and allow for any deflection your cue may have using english. I aim using a slightly modified version of CJ Whiley's aiming system that he explains on one of his tapes. I played all my life without an aiming system and I have to say my game has improved and also my confidence is better using a system to aim instead of just feel like I used to do.Omar said:
SCCues
Or look in Byrne's "Advanced Technique" book or pretty much any book from the UK written before 1970. The natural follow angle for a half-ball hit is something that every player should know but few seem to grasp, even if they have read about it.jsp said:
Yes, when using low side english. High sidespin is more difficult, you have to really blast a long shot to keep the curve out, so I avoid it unless very close to the object ball.mnShooter said:
But often for slower shots you must shoot slow enough through the cueball to let it curve while it's on the tip, before release. What I mean is the "grab" grabs immediately, your stick is very loose and slow at impact, the cueball tries to curve immediately, but cannot because the full slow follow through prevents it from curving back in front of the tip, so it rolls straight parallel to the stick down the table. You can do this with high, but you won't get much sidespin. This is the opposite of trying to use 1/2 tip of english and not deflect the ball. I use more english, hit the shot softer to let the english move the cueball, and deflect the ball fully.
unknownpro
I do this also, but for every shot english or no, and double it by linking the last practice stroke with no pause to the final stroke hitting the ball. I started that as a kid and revived it when I saw Efren doing the same thing. Ralph ???pete lafond said:
unknownpro
Ralf Souquet is who he means.unknownpro said:
scottycoyote said:
Great discussions guys i must say, and ScottyCoyote i have always wanted to know more on S.A.M i have read tons of pages on CCB and there were some explanations of it there but not really detailed and you say it is super easy to use but it must be really hard to explain as in any other system LOL unless you are showing it on the table itself. I got into alot with trying to put my stance and body into the proper alignment of the shot making it easy to pot the ball but i couldn't do it and just figured if i get down the same way each time its the best i could do there all i have to do is find the best aiming systems there is see that i say aiming systems as i know DM for instant uses two to three not just one so what i use is Shish Ka Bob and Small Ball with along with center to edge. I would like to know more about S.A.M if you don't mind with a PM or what not if not its kewl bro, but i do have a question for those who use Small Ball when aiming the middle half of the center to the edge of the cueball to either the edge and center should one always line up the cue to the center of the cueball this way you always have the same exact space to aim or could you be applying english on the cueball and still aim whats left of the rest of the cueball to either the edge or center. Thanks
after reading your post on with no pause to the final stroke i tested it out and i find it works well rather then my normal stroking technique as from there its a GO. Thanks .unknownpro said: