"Aiming Systems" are Junk, DO the Work!

[BC21]

Shane: "Every shot is different -- every spin, every aim. I do not have the same aiming system for every shot."

Archer: uses HAMB, "I've hit a million balls, so..."

Archer says that Moore loves CTE Pro1 and the most important thing is that CTE has caused his confidence to be high.

snip



Well then we're on two different universes. Technically, yes, EVERYTHING is an aiming system, including HAMB. But that's not what we're talking about. I know you are aware of the Billiards Digest article on aiming from years back where they asked a lot of pros (who were not selling anything) how they aimed. The vast majority of them said they just knew where to hit it after playing so long (HAMB). Efren did say something about aiming in some way similar to CTE. There was a lot of discussion on this in this forum.

If you think about it, it is kind of silly to think that pro players need some 1,2,3 sequence of steps to tell them where to aim the cue ball. Maybe on some difficult situations they have a trick here or there, but for the most part they just know. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that things like what Shane does are an afterthought. Meaning, when he gets down on the shot he already knows what it looks like then the shot is on. Whatever he does with his ferrule is an afterthought. Kind of like he is putting the left edge of the ferrule on the shot line that he already knows is correct. He is NOT FINDING the correct aim line by using the ferrule and some part of the object ball. Maybe it is part of his pre-shot routine, rather than necessary for finding the aim line.

I think aiming systems are good for speeding up the end goal, which ironically is to not need to use the aiming system at all. You just see the cue ball, the object ball and the pocket and your subconscious makes aiming automatic.

Good post, and very factual. I have that Billiards Digest article. It's funny that some people actually believe these pro players were lying about how they aim, and that the article is total bs.

I've listened to SVB talk about aiming, and how every shot is different so he doesn't use the same method on every ball. And that makes sense, because using the shaft edge in conjunction with the contact point only works on certain angles.

The exact OB contact point is always halfway between center OB (from the CB perspective) and the exact fractional hit needed to create the appropriate shot angle. Aiming your shaft edge at the contact point while stroking center CB would be perfect for about a 15° cut, give or take a tenth of a degree due to varying shaft diameters. But if the shot angle needs to be 7°, using the shaft edge will cause a slightly thicker hit than needed. If the shot needs to be struck at 30°, the same method would slighty over-cut the ball. But it's probably very workable on shots that are less than 30°. It must be if Shane does it. Either that or he has mastered the tweaks to make it work for him. Interesting stuff.

 

[Bobkitty]

It doesn't cost $400 to gas up a car on what I assume is primarily highway driving from Salem, Oregon to San Diego which was clocked at 1,100 miles one way or 2,200 total. It's about 1/2 the cost and maybe less.

A Tesla costs between $68,000 to $135,000 brand new. (not the new 3 model introduced this year which is $35,000 with a 1 year waiting period if on the list)

A new 2017 Lexus ES 350 or new Genesis G80 can be purchased currently on season closeouts from between $38,000 to $45,000. The Lexus 300 Hybrid gets 40 mpg average. All 3 of these cars are luxury models. The G80 is incredibly loaded and luxurious. I've driven all 3 and have friends who own them.

How many years of fuel savings would it take in gas vs. electricity to make up the difference in the purchase price of either the Lexus or Genesis compared to a Tesla? Electricity isn't free either...not to speak of the hassle and time on long trips.

That having been said, would I like to drive one? Absolutely! Own one? What you posted above as well as the development of new and better batteries.
(God help me, we may agree on something)

I was accounting on 20 MPG for the typical car at $4.00 per gallon in Calif. That equates to $220 per trip plus the round trip would amount for about 1/3 of an oil change (my son's Audi costs $500 for that). I bought a used 2014 Tesla Model S is absolutely perfect condition for about what you list the cars above. all Superchargers are free! IMO, the best used car on the market! The battery and electric motor are guaranteed for 8 years and unlimited miles from the factory. And, there is nothing else; no radiator, no transmission, no maintenance, etc. etc. Taxi cabs in Portland have over 300K miles on them and they are still going strong with 95% of their battery left. Just my two cents.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I was accounting on 20 MPG for the typical car at $4.00 per gallon in Calif. That equates to $220 per trip. I bought a used 2014 Tesla Model S is absolutely perfect condition for about what you list the cars above. all Superchargers are free! IMO, the best used car on the market! The battery and electric motor are guaranteed for 8 years and unlimited miles from the factory. And, there is nothing else; no radiator, no transmission, no maintenance, etc. etc. Taxi cabs in Portland have over 300K miles on them and they are still going strong with 95% of their battery left. Just my two cents.

The price of gas in January of this year in CA when the trip was made was around
$2.80 per gallon, not $4,00. The Lexus hybrid would cost $154 round trip.
The other ones about $250,

Here's the California gas price average this year: (Go to 9 month)
http://www.californiagasprices.com/Retail_Price_Chart.aspx

The highway (especially) as well as average mpg of the 3 cars I listed are higher than 20 mpg.
Lexus ES 350: EPA Gas mileage is 30 hwy/21 city/24 avg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38110.shtml

The Hybrid model gets an average of 40mpg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38111.shtml

Genesis G80 - EPA Gas mileage is 28 hwy/18 city/22 avg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2017_Genesis_G80.shtml

One thing I have noticed is the Tesla had a great depreciation in value from the original price to a year or two later. Sounds like a good purchase.

 

[BC21]

I've only said that all complex by the book, DVD, "aiming systems" only account for 60% of the OB aiming points. I think Dr. Dave came up with that conclusion some years ago. I don't see his evidence posted here anymore.... That (60%) is the case, then why learn the aiming concept if you've got to learn another simpler one to manage the other 40% to move the OB where it wants to go? I think Willie Mosconi, if he had CTE, SAMBA, pivots, etc. would go right back to his; "hit the back (180 degrees) of the ball where you want it to go". That covers all 100 % of the OB.

The same is said about ghostball...if you can visualize the gb it covers 100% of shots. I've never read the "60%" theory, and it surely doesn't apply to all aiming systems nowadays. CTE apparently covers all shots once you figure out how to come in on CCB directly on the appropriate aim line.

My system provides aiming for shots as thin as a 1/8 hit. If you divide the ob into 64th aim points, from straight-in to 8/64 aim (1/8), my system covers 89% of shot angles. That's pretty strong, especially when the remaining 11% of shots are very thin cuts that most often should be passed over in favor of playing a smart safety. So I don't understand this 60% figure. Maybe it applies to some systems, but surely not all.

 

[Bobkitty]

The price of gas in January of this year in CA when the trip was made was around
$2.80 per gallon, not $4,00. The Lexus hybrid would cost $154 round trip.
The other ones about $250,

Here's the California gas price average this year:
http://www.californiagasprices.com/Retail_Price_Chart.aspx

The highway (especially) as well as average mpg of the 3 cars I listed are higher than 20 mpg.
Lexus ES 350: EPA Gas mileage is 30 hwy/21 city/24 avg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38110.shtml

The Hybrid model gets an average of 40mpg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38111.shtml

EPA Gas mileage is 28 hwy/18 city/22 avg. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2017_Genesis_G80.shtml

Okay, $200 for the trip. My 4 hours of time is worth $50 per hour as I'm retired and do not need to make it a fast trip. I don't check gas stations but I know most of those cars require premium gas, at least my brother's BMW does, and my son's Audi. I love the Tesla Model S. If someone buys one from the Tesla.com resell, the factory will give them the new guarantee of 4 years/ 50K miles for everything. 8 years of battery and motor for everyone.

 

[Bobkitty]

The same is said about ghostball...if you can visualize the gb it covers 100% of shots. I've never read the "60%" theory, and it surely doesn't apply to all aiming systems nowadays. CTE apparently covers all shots once you figure out how to come in on CCB directly on the appropriate aim line.

My system provides aiming for shots as thin as a 1/8 hit. If you divide the ob into 64th aim points, from straight-in to 8/64 aim (1/8), my system covers 89% of shot angles. That's pretty strong, especially when the remaining 11% of shots are very thin cuts that most often should be passed over in favor of playing a smart safety. So I don't understand this 60% figure. Maybe it applies to some systems, but surely not all.

In your 89%, You are compensating that the pool player can discriminate how to put the OB into fractions by his CB. I can determine 1/2 ball hit for the 30 degree angle but I can't determine 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, etc. That is another skill.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Okay, $200 for the trip. My 4 hours of time is worth $50 per hour as I'm retired and do not need to make it a fast trip. I don't check gas stations but I know most of those cars require premium gas, at least my brother's BMW does, and my son's Audi. I love the Tesla Model S. If someone buys one from the Tesla.com resell, the factory will give them the new guarantee of 4 years/ 50K miles for everything. 8 years of battery and motor for everyone.

Both Lexus models and the Genesis G80 take regular, not premium.

Hey, I'm intrigued by the Tesla and would love to drive one. I'd like to see more total miles between fueling and more stations. Let's face it, not even close to convenient or fast as gas stations which are everywhere. Maybe they'll make great strides in the near future. Or another manufacturer will.

 

[Renegade_56]

In your 89%, You are compensating that the pool player can discriminate how to put the OB into fractions by his CB. I can determine 1/2 ball hit for the 30 degree angle but I can't determine 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, etc. That is another skill.

This is exactly the problem I have with any fractional aiming system, and honestly is also the part of aiming that makes me miss longer shots with Pro 1. I've seen all the illustrations of ball overlap showing the different fractions and they are quite simple, however there is no way to actually get that visual over a shot, since your eyes must be aligned properly with the line of your stroke to be consistent, and therefore must be at some height above the cue, cue ball, and object ball.

 

[stan shuffett]

This is exactly the problem I have with any fractional aiming system, and honestly is also the part of aiming that makes me miss longer shots with Pro 1. I've seen all the illustrations of ball overlap showing the different fractions and they are quite simple, however there is no way to actually get that visual over a shot, since your eyes must be aligned properly with the line of your stroke to be consistent, and therefore must be at some height above the cue, cue ball, and object ball.

In CTE you don't want your eyes aligned with the line of your stroke. If you do that the visuals and the shot line can not be properly viewed.

Stan Shuffett

 

[BC21]

In your 89%, You are compensating that the pool player can discriminate how to put the OB into fractions by his CB. I can determine 1/2 ball hit for the 30 degree angle but I can't determine 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, etc. That is another skill.

That's called "Doing the work". Lol. And it's simple work because you keep the fractions in workable, simple numbers. 64th aim points is precision overkill, unless most every ob you shoot is 7 or 8 feet from the pocket. The majority of shots can easily be pocketed by using 1/8 aim intervals, fine tuning thicker or thinner as needed, developing a feel so eventually your brain automatically puts your stroke in line without the need for any fractional thinking. But until then, you have to do the work. You can spend a few minutes a day recognizing and hitting 1/4 ball shots, 3/4, 5/8, 1/8, etc... Or you could spend several hours a day just shooting balls close to the pocket until you eventually get good at hitting the pocket. Some people spend years doing this and wonder why they never get better. It's because they are learning by trial and error, which takes a long time.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Here it is!! The famous BD article from the pros on how they aim!

There are some that say it's "feel". But MOST PROS talk about what THEY USE.

There are far MORE using an aiming system than those who say FEEL.

It ranges from Contact Points and Ghost Ball (the majority), to Fractions, to Edges, and other ways.

I can identify and list each and every member beforehand on this forum who will selectively pick out the ones who say they play by FEEL and disregard the majority who specify what they use.

I won't need to because they'll be jumping in here like Mexican Jumping Beans to make their absurd claims and you'll see for yourself who they are.

http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/PnB_aiming.pdf

This article was also before Hal revealed anything on the internet regarding CTE and his other systems.

 

[Bobkitty]

Both Lexus models and the Genesis G80 take regular, not premium.

Hey, I'm intrigued by the Tesla and would love to drive one. I'd like to see more total miles between fueling and more stations. Let's face it, not even close to convenient or fast as gas stations which are everywhere. Maybe they'll make great strides in the near future. Or another manufacturer will.

Well, everyone that owns a Tesla, has an electric charger at home, a 220VAC welder outlet. I plug it in every time I pull into my garage. I can go 240 miles without another charger. 99.9% of the time, my home charger is enough.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Well, everyone that owns a Tesla, has an electric charger at home, a 220VAC welder outlet.

How much did it cost to have an electrician install the 220VAC outlet?

I plug it in every time I pull into my garage. I can go 240 miles without another charger. 99.9% of the time, my home charger is enough.

For around town and short trips, I think it's super. It would really piss me off if some moron blasted their door into it and put a huge ding, scratch, or paint chip.

But then again, that applies to any new car.

 

[Bobkitty]

For around town and short trips, I think it's super. It would really piss me off if some moron blasted their door into it and put a huge ding, scratch, or paint chip.

But then again, that applies to any new car.

I did it my self. $20 for cable, $20 for outlet plug. Takes 50 amp service. Electrician might charge $200?

 

[BC21]

This is exactly the problem I have with any fractional aiming system, and honestly is also the part of aiming that makes me miss longer shots with Pro 1. I've seen all the illustrations of ball overlap showing the different fractions and they are quite simple, however there is no way to actually get that visual over a shot, since your eyes must be aligned properly with the line of your stroke to be consistent, and therefore must be at some height above the cue, cue ball, and object ball.

That was my trouble when I first developed this fractional system, so I understand completely. I had never aimed for any particular aim point or fractional view, etc... but once I started paying attention I found out it's easy to just aim at the aim point, stroking right through the CB to a particular vertical split on the ob, not trying to imagine some sort of eclipse, but connecting my stroke with this vertical line on or just outside the outer surface of the OB. Like this...(I mention vertical lines at 1:10)

https://youtu.be/RjpWka6v3Ao

 

[BC21]

Here it is!! The famous BD article from the pros on how they aim!

There are some that say it's "feel". But MOST PROS talk about what THEY USE.

There are far MORE using an aiming system than those who say FEEL.

It ranges from Contact Points and Ghost Ball (the majority), to Fractions, to Edges, and other ways.

I can identify and list each and every member beforehand on this forum who will selectively pick out the ones who say they play by FEEL and disregard the majority who specify what they use.

I won't need to because they'll be jumping in here like Mexican Jumping Beans to make their absurd claims and you'll see for yourself who they are.

http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/PnB_aiming.pdf

This article was also before Hal revealed anything on the internet regarding CTE and his other systems.

I come up with 11 of the 30 that say they don't really aim, but just see or feel where to shoot the ball. They look and then shoot. 19 describe using gb or fractions or edges or contact points. A few of these 19 go on to say that they don't use any system process much anymore because they've hit so many balls they are basically pocketing balls automatically without thinking or visualizing anything.

I'd venture a guess that most of the 11 non-system users actually first learned by using one or more of the common systems. But they are so far removed from those systems now that playing by feel/instinct is a more precise explanation to explain what they do. A better question for these players back then would've been to ask how they first learned to start pocketing balls, not how they currently go about it.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I come up with 11 of the 30 that say they don't really aim, but just see or feel where to shoot the ball. They look and then shoot. 19 describe using gb or fractions or edges or contact points. A few of these 19 go on to say that they don't use any system process much anymore because they've hit so many balls they are basically pocketing balls automatically without thinking or visualizing anything.

They might not be thinking very much but it all starts with the EYES for SEEING. (instead of the word visualizing) All of us have to see something that determines how we set our body, head, bridge hand, angled to the impact of the CB and OB for starters. Then what do we see or visualize, especially the ones who say they play 100% by feel? The eyes still dictate and control where the CB has to go, correct?

I'd venture a guess that most of the 11 non-system users actually first learned by using one or more of the common systems.

And I'd venture to say that's a totally accurate guess. We all start out clueless and helpless with a wobbly stroke since perfect strokes aren't handed out at birth.

But they are so far removed from those systems now that playing by feel/instinct is a more precise explanation to explain what they do.

Possibly but they still have to SEE something that sets it all off.


A better question for these players back then would've been to ask how they first learned to start pocketing balls, not how they currently go about it.

That would have been an excellent question.

There have been many on here who have been playing the game longer than I have which is 25 years in my case. I SEE everything much differently now since CTE but I did have a life playing pool prior to learning about it from Hal and could play very sporty at times.

I have no idea what others SEE but when I got into the zone back then and felt like I could never miss a shot again for the rest of my life, what I saw was the pocket, OB, and IMPACT. I just knew what impact of the CB looked like on the OB in relationship to the angle and then shot the CB to complete the picture.

I didn't see a contact point on either balls, a vertical line or a fraction, it wasn't ghost ball which had the center of the CB outside of the OB or the edge of the CB located at a point on the OB except when it was close to a 90 degree cut angle. Then it was edge to edge as razor thin as could be.

It was just impact, knowing what it should look like and getting the CB there.
Is THAT feel? It was for me. When I was on, I was really on. When I wasn't on with the stroke linked to the visual of impact the % of pocketed balls went down with a struggle to get it back as well as losing.

What do YOU SEE when you think you're playing by feel? Putting a blindfold on will really prove something about FEEL and making balls without some sort of visuals for guidance.

 

[BC21]

I think aiming systems are excellent tools to help program the mind and body to work as one unit when shooting pool. We use our eyes to see the CB and OB, the angle to the pocket, the desired direction we want the CB going after striking the OB. Our eyes provide images to our brain. These images trigger the program that executes the standard body movements needed to pocket the ball....the stance, the alignment, the stroke, etc...it all becomes automatic.

The FEEL portion involves the multitude of spin and speed options available for us to tap into with our muscle memory and creative thinking. We feel how much left or right spin is needed, if any. We feel how firm or how soft to stroke the shot in order to create desired results. The basic motor skills for pocketing balls is hardwired, but this fine tuning creative part of playing pool, the FEEL of playing pool, is much more intricate than the simple mechanics of sending OB's into pockets.

The trick is to reach a point where you no longer have to think about or follow strict mechanical processes in order to pocket a ball. When that process becomes automatic your brain will be able to free-wheel. It will send balls to the pockets based on programmed mechanics, and it'll be free to allow the feel of creativity to start flowing. That's being in the zone.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I think aiming systems are excellent tools to help program the mind and body to work as one unit when shooting pool. We use our eyes to see the CB and OB, the angle to the pocket, the desired direction we want the CB going after striking the OB. Our eyes provide images to our brain. These images trigger the program that executes the standard body movements needed to pocket the ball....the stance, the alignment, the stroke, etc...it all becomes automatic.

The FEEL portion involves the multitude of spin and speed options available for us to tap into with our muscle memory and creative thinking. We feel how much left or right spin is needed, if any. We feel how firm or how soft to stroke the shot in order to create desired results. The basic motor skills for pocketing balls is hardwired, but this fine tuning creative part of playing pool, the FEEL of playing pool, is much more intricate than the simple mechanics of sending OB's into pockets.

The trick is to reach a point where you no longer have to think about or follow strict mechanical processes in order to pocket a ball. When that process becomes automatic your brain will be able to free-wheel. It will send balls to the pockets based on programmed mechanics, and it'll be free to allow the feel of creativity to start flowing. That's being in the zone.

And all of the above happens when a high level of play is attained to begin with and the time on the table is almost every day for months and months on end.

Joe Schmo part time player ain't gonna get there.

 

[Straightpool_99]

As I continue to practice and doing the work, I'm super convinced that you guys looking for an "aiming system" are trying to NOT do the work. You are looking for the EASY deal. I know a guy that grew up on the pool table and was a hustler. He tells me, he knows there are 75 spots on the OB to hit the shot. For one simple example: He could be at the other end of the table, with a foot apart between OB and CB, a 20-50 degree cut and hit the corners of the pockets at the other end of the table to make his "missed" shot look correct to his opponent. He says that 40% of the OB can NOT be measured using fractions, CTE, etc. etc. aiming systems. I have seen him do it time after time so don't tell me how phony he is, IF you were there, he'd show you too.... so don't try to tell me he's full of it. WHAT kind of aiming system can do that?

Playing pool well takes a great deal of experience. You gradually learn which shot is correct, what speed to play it at, and where to aim the shot (in the pocket) to maximize your chances. An aiming system is just a starting point for learning, and an optional one at that.

Even the players who claim aiming system "X" has all the answers, admit that it takes time before you can use it to it's full potential. This is because you need the experience to make the small adjustments and correct choices for the situation at hand. For instance shooting into a particular part of a pocket, taking nap into account, shooting very slowly etc.

By far the most time consuming task is learning to play with english. Backhand english is only a part of the answer, because on modern tables, you frequently need to hit the shot at an "off" speed that will have some curve and throw to it. You cant slam in every shot with straight draw...

Then there are the times when you need to partially jump a ball or are very close to a severe cut that needs a lot of top and power (like a straight pool break shot). Many people do not account for the fact that the cueball jumps in these cases and will overcut the ball slightly, etc. Most people are completely unaware that they are making these adjustments, but this is why good pool takes time.