I was trying to imply that in my post, but thank you for stating it more clearly.
Regards,
Dave
Aiming Systems - The End Justifies the Means
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Regards,
Dave
So you can teach someone how to use a slip stroke? I'd like to see that in person sometime.
I certainly wouldn't want to "teach" the "slip stroke" to anybody, but I certainly know enough about it to help somebody "learn" it if they wanted to.
If people are curious about the "slip stroke" and want to try to learn it on their own, the following article by Bob Jewett explains it fairly well:
Although, it's one thing to learn it, and another thing entirely to master it. IMO, it would be difficult to "teach" somebody how to "master" a slip stroke to the point to where they can use it effectively (especially if they haven't tried it before).
Regards,
Dave
I emphasize a loose, relaxed grip, for my own play. Sometimes, I get too relaxed, and find myself executing the 'stroke slip', as Bob J. called it in the article you referenced.
As long as my stroke is pure, this has little effect on the shot outcome (in fact, I would be worried if it did, because it would mean something else is wrong with my stroke). Nevertheless, this is not something I would normally try to execute. When it happens, I know that I have gone a little overboard on keeping a light grip.
As long as my stroke is pure, this has little effect on the shot outcome (in fact, I would be worried if it did, because it would mean something else is wrong with my stroke). Nevertheless, this is not something I would normally try to execute. When it happens, I know that I have gone a little overboard on keeping a light grip.
Do you consider yourself a master of the slipstroke?
I think everyone may have passed away that used it. There's a "new age".
It's not dead quite yet.. I played with a slipstroke for a number of years and still can fall into it very easily...
I have long since deleted the PMs but at least 2 AZers were working on perfecting it and I attempted to explain the nuances of the technique as best as I could...
I guess it would be no surprise based on the slipstroke fact that I employ a wrist twist technique for a decent percentage of the banks I shoot...
I do agree that there are no shots that can only be accomplished using these 2 techniques but I will say in certain instances my percentages go way up using them.....
Bugs Rucker used his wrist to twist banks in too.
Yeah, I've heard through the years a lot of bank pool and one pocket players talk about "twisting" the banks in....Robert Lebanc was just talking about that last week as a matter of fact.
Bugs Rucker used his wrist to twist banks in too. The twisting motion does something, like it does in certain martial arts strikes....it certainly generates power in ways unlike any other that I'm familiar with.
Yeah, I've heard through the years a lot of bank pool and one pocket players talk about "twisting" the banks in....Robert Lebanc was just talking about that last week as a matter of fact.
Bugs Rucker used his wrist to twist banks in too. The twisting motion does something, like it does in certain martial arts strikes....it certainly generates power in ways unlike any other that I'm familiar with.
Those are completely different "twisting" motions.
pj
chgo
I can play with slip stroke , and very strong.
Many years ago, i wanted to copy mosconi, so i learned his slip stroke. ( i saw him 3 times in person)
I don't use it, because it has too much power, (good in 9 ball), but not enough finesse, (that i need in 14.1). It's really very easy to do, but not on a wrapless cue. The right hand will be too sticky on a wrapless cue.
Many years ago, i wanted to copy mosconi, so i learned his slip stroke. ( i saw him 3 times in person)
I don't use it, because it has too much power, (good in 9 ball), but not enough finesse, (that i need in 14.1). It's really very easy to do, but not on a wrapless cue. The right hand will be too sticky on a wrapless cue.
Speaking of copying I was listening to an interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger and the interviewer asked him about a signature move that Arnold was famous for.
The Governator answered that he COPIED it from his idol at the time. He said clearly that he didn't invent it but that he copied it and worked on it until he had it down cold.
I don't really understand all this nonsense where people often say that you have to be completely original to succeed. No, you don't and often the most completely "orginal" people around are homeless people you consider to be crazy.
What you have to do to succeed is to try whatever you can and run with what works to put the balls in the holes more than the other guys. As Buddy said you only have two choices when you step to the table, shoot or duck and you had better know HOW to do either of them.
We're all standing on each others shoulders to reach higher levels
We're all standing on each others shoulders to reach higher levels. They say the wise can learn things from the ignorant, but the ignorant already think they know it all. I'm not learning a lot about pool, but I'm learning a lot about life and human nature. For me that's very valuable indeed.
I always used the word "model" rather than "copy", but it all comes down to the same principles you spoke of.
We're all standing on each others shoulders to reach higher levels. They say the wise can learn things from the ignorant, but the ignorant already think they know it all. I'm not learning a lot about pool, but I'm learning a lot about life and human nature. For me that's very valuable indeed.
I always used the word "model" rather than "copy", but it all comes down to the same principles you spoke of.
keep it compact and remove unneeded movement
yeah, maybe on a 5/10 with slow cloth, but not on current equipment....it's better to keep it compact and remove unneeded movement. imho
yeah, maybe on a 5/10 with slow cloth, but not on current equipment....it's better to keep it compact and remove unneeded movement. imho
I agree.... less movement is better
the slip stroke is a feeling of power, but not always of control. So yes, on these lightning fast diamonds, and new cloth ,,, a more controlled technique is more likely to succeed.
the slip stroke is a feeling of power, but not always of control. So yes, on these lightning fast diamonds, and new cloth ,,, a more controlled technique is more likely to succeed.
Wrist twist is not required to "twist" banks in. The term "twist" is often used to describe "changing the rebound angle with transferred spin." Wrist twist is not required (or generally recommended) to transfer spin to the object ball. FYI, many examples (including some video demonstrations) of spin-transfer (AKA "tiwst") bank shots can be found here:
Regards,
Dave
I play (and have played) lots of banks with lots of banks players - many of whom only play banks - and I've never heard the term "twist" used to mean "wrist twist". It always just means using OB spin to change the bank angle (usually to widen the angle). This is usually done by putting sidespin on the CB, but that's rarely done by twisting the wrist.
However, one way that wrist-twisting might help is to limit the amount of sidespin put on the CB. Putting too much spin on the CB actually reduces the amount of spin transferred to the OB (too much "slippage"), and a wrist twist might be an unconscious way of applying a smaller amount for maximum transfer. As with all these unorthodox methods, the same thing can be accomplished with a more traditional and controllable stroke.
pj
chgo
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The wrist twist is just a way of pivoting the cue. Stan mentioned a number of great players who incorporate that technique.
Glen Rogers and Truman Hogue each incorporate the wrist twist while banking. Each of whom do so intentionally and with purpose. I think one would find that the cue's angle of attack into the face of the CB would resemble that of BHE (post-pivot).
I have a hunch if you'd ask either of them why they twist their wrist, you'd likely get an answer like "Because it works better than otherwise."
So, when it's said "Twisting is not generally recommended" --- what is that based on and not generally recommended by whom? If it's not generally recommended to beginners, I'd tend to agree. If it's used as a blanket statement -- it's just flat wrong.
Ignacio Chavez is another player who turns his wrist through the ball to apply english and pocket balls. He turns his knuckles up for left english and down for right.
There is quite a collection of elite players who incorporate this technique, and it's not because they were never given a lesson and have poor fundamentals.
P.S. Is Piggy still in Chicago? If so, PJ, you should track him down and ask him. He made a Billiards Digest (May 2004) article on banking and I believe he mentioned wrist twists in that article.
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Of course.
It's easily demonstrated that nothing can be done with a wrist twist that can't be done more simply and reliably with a straight stroke. So the better question is why would a wrist twist be recommended?
pj
chgo
Although you're technically correct, you might ask yourself why bother pivoting for english when you can adjust your sight and shoot with a straight cue? Of course, you can do ANYTHING with a straight cue; however that doesn't mean shooting with a straight cue provides an easier or more repeatable technique.
Obviously, guys like who I mentioned in my previous post have experimented with straight cue shots first and foremost and ended up someplace else for reasons only they can say.
When I watch these guys do it, it's a slight swiping BHE motion with the added knuckle roll (and that knuckle roll is slight as well).
If anyone out there has that May 2004 BD article that Piggy wrote, read it and report back. It's been 8 years since I laid eyes on it and I vaguely remember he discusses this technique. If memory serves, he says something like "I twist to make it easier to manipulate the bank angle." Something like that.
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