Almost frozen

[BRussell]

I can find a lot of material on frozen balls: throw effects and the like by Bob Jewett, Dr. Dave, et al. But I'm looking for advice on when there is a small gap between CB and OB. I'm not talking about foul vs. good hit, I'm talking about throw vs. cut.

Say you have a CB-OB close together and lined up about 10 degrees or so to the left of a corner pocket that is several feet away. You can shoot "toward the pocket" to the right to throw the OB in, perhaps with left English, or you could shoot "away from the pocket" to the left to cut the ball in. It seems to me that if the balls are very close you should try the throw but if they're further apart you should cut, but I get inconsistent results.

 

[SloMoHolic]

Great question.

It seems to me that if the balls are frozen, you'd use throw, but if they are not frozen, you would have to cut the shot. It's amazing what a difference a tiny gap makes.

Hopefully, we'll both get a good, solid answer to this question.

Dr. Dave! We need you!

-Blake

 

[3andstop]

I might try to throw them if it is a 16th or less. Much more I think I'd try to turn it in. But even when trying to throw it I might put a touch of outside on the CB as I shoot toward the pocket.

This effect works much more consistently if you are shooting the CB at a combination shot that is just short of kissing rather than shooting the CB into the OB. You are much less likely to over do it. At least that's how I feel about it.

 

[dr_dave]

I can find a lot of material on frozen balls: throw effects and the like by Bob Jewett, Dr. Dave, et al. But I'm looking for advice on when there is a small gap between CB and OB. I'm not talking about foul vs. good hit, I'm talking about throw vs. cut.

Say you have a CB-OB close together and lined up about 10 degrees or so to the left of a corner pocket that is several feet away. You can shoot "toward the pocket" to the right to throw the OB in, perhaps with left English, or you could shoot "away from the pocket" to the left to cut the ball in. It seems to me that if the balls are very close you should try the throw but if they're further apart you should cut, but I get inconsistent results.

To get the most throw, use slow-speed stun (no top or bottom spin) with about a 1/2-ball hit (or slightly thicker). The most throw you can get with typical conditions is about 5 degrees; so if the angle you need is more than this, your only option is to cut the ball. If you are not consistent with your speed or stun, or if the balls are not new and clean, the amount of throw can vary a lot.

The larger the gap size, the less you can do with throw. The cut off is about 1/3 inch. Close to this gap size, the final OB direction will be fairly consistent for a fairly wide range of CB angles (between a full-ball and 1/2-ball hit).

I've done a fairly detailed analysis of this, but it isn't presentable yet. I was going to finish and post it when I write an article on this topic (probably early next year).

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[CreeDo]

I believe there was a thread a little while on this but can't find it, or maybe it got brought up in an unrelated thread.

Near frozen balls definely seem to be 'extra' throwable in my experience, but I can't say why they'd act any different than balls with a full 1 foot gap.

Total guess: Maybe it's because they have no time to pick up any roll, or accidental sidespin. At most cut angles outside decreases collision induced throw, at large cut angles inside can decrease CIT. And I think topspin does too.

So in situations with a tiny gap you can get a truly dead sliding cue ball that hasn't had the chance to start revolving with sidespin or rolling with topspin, so all those throw-decreasing effects are nullified.

 

[dr_dave]

Near frozen balls definely seem to be 'extra' throwable in my experience, but I can't say why they'd act any different than balls with a full 1 foot gap.

Total guess: Maybe it's because they have no time to pick up any roll, or accidental sidespin. At most cut angles outside decreases collision induced throw, at large cut angles inside can decrease CIT. And I think topspin does too.

So in situations with a tiny gap you can get a truly dead sliding cue ball that hasn't had the chance to start revolving with sidespin or rolling with topspin, so all those throw-decreasing effects are nullified.

That is correct. Maximum throw occurs with slow-speed stun, and stun is very difficult to control at larger distances (especially with slow speed).

For more info on this and related topics, see:
- maximum throw resource page
- using throw to hold CB motion
- frozen-ball throw resource page
- effects of top and bottom spin on throw

Enjoy,
Dave