Am I choking or just missing?

krupa

krupa

The Dream Operator
Silver Member
This is probably a recurring theme here but here goes, anyway...

I played 8-ball last night with some buddies and found that an old habit of mine has not yet died out. Basically I shoot fairly well through the rack. I don't run-out but I shoot respectably; I definitely didn't feel "off" in any way. So I get down to the 8-ball and I just can't get the damn thing in a pocket. I'm not missing easy shots, but typically longer/harder shots that I (think*) I can usually make.

I've been more aware of my thought processes when I shoot and I don't consciously think about it being "for the win" or "the money ball" or "oh god, I have to make this shot" but I still don't make it.

In college, my friends would say that I always choke on the 8. I never felt like that was the case because I rarely feel pressure when I play (especially since I don't play tournaments) but I could never convince them otherwise.

Last night I was more aware of it because during one game my opponent said (in a nice way, I swear) "You're giving me the game" after I shanked a couple 8-ball shots.

So am I choking or just plain missing? Can you subconsciously choke?

Thanks
-matthew

* I say I "think" I can usually make those shots but I have no evidence supporting the claim. I just feel like I'm missing 8-ball shots that I am completely capable of making.
 
I'm not the one to answer your question, those guys will be along in due time :p

I share some of this affliction with you. When I stop to think about it, something I've noticed is that when I'm shooting the 8-ball, it is often from at least half the table away, or more. And while you and I probably make those long shots with regularity on other balls, when it comes to the 8, perhaps that is adding to the other variables that you've mentioned might be happening to you (and to me). Especially on the big tables.

The obvious answer is to play better position so that when we get to the 8, it is at a shorter distance. It sounds obvious, and it is, but maybe this is part of the anxiousness that comes subconciously when shooting the 8. We all know it should be the same as any other shot, but for many of us, it's not. That is a real training isue, part of the mental challenge this game gives us.

I don't know as it's "choking", but that's our first instinct on what to describe it, right?
 
justadub said:
The obvious answer is to play better position so that when we get to the 8, it is at a shorter distance. It sounds obvious, and it is, but maybe this is part of the anxiousness that comes subconciously when shooting the 8. We all know it should be the same as any other shot, but for many of us, it's not. That is a real training isue, part of the mental challenge this game gives us.

I don't know as it's "choking", but that's our first instinct on what to describe it, right?
Click to expand...

Position play is definitely my weakest area and I'm sure I've felt frustrated getting to the 8 or last ball before the 8 and not having good position. I try to push that out when I'm shooting and just concentrate on taking the shot.
 
Your subconscious can be a powerful friend or foe.

Your subconscious will react on the visuals provided to it by the conscious mind. Feed it good visions, it works for you, feed it negative images and it will produce negative results.

How do you feed your subconscious mind to preform well under pressure? Develop a bullet proof pre-shot routine for starters.


krupa said:
This is probably a recurring theme here but here goes, anyway...

I played 8-ball last night with some buddies and found that an old habit of mine has not yet died out. Basically I shoot fairly well through the rack. I don't run-out but I shoot respectably; I definitely didn't feel "off" in any way. So I get down to the 8-ball and I just can't get the damn thing in a pocket. I'm not missing easy shots, but typically longer/harder shots that I (think*) I can usually make.

I've been more aware of my thought processes when I shoot and I don't consciously think about it being "for the win" or "the money ball" or "oh god, I have to make this shot" but I still don't make it.

In college, my friends would say that I always choke on the 8. I never felt like that was the case because I rarely feel pressure when I play (especially since I don't play tournaments) but I could never convince them otherwise.

Last night I was more aware of it because during one game my opponent said (in a nice way, I swear) "You're giving me the game" after I shanked a couple 8-ball shots.

So am I choking or just plain missing? Can you subconsciously choke?

Thanks
-matthew

* I say I "think" I can usually make those shots but I have no evidence supporting the claim. I just feel like I'm missing 8-ball shots that I am completely capable of making.
Click to expand...
 
A "choke" would be described as:

If you miss a shot that you would normally make 10/10 times, it's a choke.

Missing a three rail kick shot is a miss.
randyg
 
randyg said:
A "choke" would be described as:

If you miss a shot that you would normally make 10/10 times, it's a choke.

Missing a three rail kick shot is a miss.
randyg
Click to expand...

I like that definition, it means I wasn't choking and just need to practice more (which I already knew.) :grin:

Thanks!
-matthew
 
randyg said:
A "choke" would be described as:

If you miss a shot that you would normally make 10/10 times, it's a choke.

Missing a three rail kick shot is a miss.
randyg
Click to expand...

Words to live by. Or at least play pool by.

Thanks for the perspective, Randy.
 
My 2 Cents

Neil said:
If you ever do any drills, use the eight ball for them. It will get you used to shooting it.
Click to expand...

Just my two cents, but I think this is the best advice so far...if you're concerned that it's your "subconscious" playing with your game, then this would definitely be turning the tables per se on your subconscious...trick your mind into making that 8-bal by taking pracitce shots over and over from 6 inches...then 10 inches...then (so on and so on) until making that 8-ball is absolute.

Wow...good idea...I think I'm off to try that in a little bit...

Jason
 
I also agree with this. If you have the chance to go to a poolroom when nobody is there, you can maybe talk the houseman into letting you use several 8 & 9 balls. Rack them up (maybe playing 6-Ball), and then every shot is a "money ball" in your mind.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

JAMSGOLF said:
Just my two cents, but I think this is the best advice so far...if you're concerned that it's your "subconscious" playing with your game, then this would definitely be turning the tables per se on your subconscious...trick your mind into making that 8-bal by taking pracitce shots over and over from 6 inches...then 10 inches...then (so on and so on) until making that 8-ball is absolute.

Wow...good idea...I think I'm off to try that in a little bit...

Jason
Click to expand...
 
I am wondering if any of the instructors support this theory. I have been told that most people miss the money ball (8 or 9 ball) due to a change in their thought process. Players spend all this time perfecting a certain pre-shot routine and part of that routine is planning positon for the next ball. When your shooting the last ball there is no next ball so there is a change in your pre-shot routine. What I have been told is to always play positon for the next ball. So if you are playing 8 ball shoot the 8 and play position for the imaginery 9 ball. This way your pre-shot routine stays the same.
 
Some recommend to do their practice shots with 8-9-10.
If it helps some guys-it so ok for em.
For me it s just showing, that they re *not ready* yet. Still too less confidence on different shots. Practice is the key -no matter which number on the ball!
To get rid of this you need the key, and this is: the often by Scotte called "bullitproofed pre-shot-routine" and a repeatable stroke that you re believing!
Pay enough table time/practice and you won t think about if it s the one ball or the 9 ball-- usualy you will loose the game also if missing the one-ball my friend:) pay the necessary attention for EACH ball!
 
Some time ago a friend of mine had a chance to visit and talk to Joe Balsis at his home in Minersville Pa. He asked Joe, how do run 100 plus balls in straight pool? His answer was one ball at a time.

Ratta said:
pay the necessary attention for EACH ball!
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to the poolroom today to play and practice and plan on doing drills with the 8 and 9 balls.

-matthew
 
freedog69 said:
I am wondering if any of the instructors support this theory. I have been told that most people miss the money ball (8 or 9 ball) due to a change in their thought process. Players spend all this time perfecting a certain pre-shot routine and part of that routine is planning positon for the next ball. When your shooting the last ball there is no next ball so there is a change in your pre-shot routine. What I have been told is to always play positon for the next ball. So if you are playing 8 ball shoot the 8 and play position for the imaginery 9 ball. This way your pre-shot routine stays the same.
Click to expand...

You know you are very right about this. When you shoot your out ball, always take into consideration the path and final resting place of the CB when you envision the shot prior to getting down to shoot it. Pocketing a ball is only half a shot, the other half is what happens to the CB.

A clear, COMPLETE mental picture of what you are going to do is the best way for your physical body to accomplish what you are about to do. If you're not clear on the entire picture, you haven't given your mind the information it needs to execute. Then doubt, lack of confidence, and a general uncomfortable feeling develops and translates in your body's physical execution of the shot. That result will be as unclear or incomplete as the information you fed to your brain. Considering the entire shot is also a part of what was said before, a solid pre shot routine includes mental preparation for the shot as well as physical.

On those wonderful occasions that we fall into dead stroke, all those things happen automatically and very quickly, and that's when we really get to play pool.

(Take if from a guy who knows. :) The older I get, the tougher this part of the game becomes for me stay with for any length of time.) :(
 
freedog69...This is absolutely true, and frequently results in someone scratching after making the game ball. This is why we teach our students to play position on all shots, including after the game ball. That said, it has nothing to do with the OP's problem of dogging the game ball, after playing well to get to that point.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

freedog69 said:
I am wondering if any of the instructors support this theory. I have been told that most people miss the money ball (8 or 9 ball) due to a change in their thought process. Players spend all this time perfecting a certain pre-shot routine and part of that routine is planning positon for the next ball. When your shooting the last ball there is no next ball so there is a change in your pre-shot routine. What I have been told is to always play positon for the next ball. So if you are playing 8 ball shoot the 8 and play position for the imaginery 9 ball. This way your pre-shot routine stays the same.
Click to expand...
 
krupa said:
This is probably a recurring theme here but here goes, anyway...

I played 8-ball last night with some buddies and found that an old habit of mine has not yet died out. Basically I shoot fairly well through the rack. I don't run-out but I shoot respectably; I definitely didn't feel "off" in any way. So I get down to the 8-ball and I just can't get the damn thing in a pocket. I'm not missing easy shots, but typically longer/harder shots that I (think*) I can usually make.

I've been more aware of my thought processes when I shoot and I don't consciously think about it being "for the win" or "the money ball" or "oh god, I have to make this shot" but I still don't make it.

In college, my friends would say that I always choke on the 8. I never felt like that was the case because I rarely feel pressure when I play (especially since I don't play tournaments) but I could never convince them otherwise.

Last night I was more aware of it because during one game my opponent said (in a nice way, I swear) "You're giving me the game" after I shanked a couple 8-ball shots.

So am I choking or just plain missing? Can you subconsciously choke?

Thanks
-matthew

* I say I "think" I can usually make those shots but I have no evidence supporting the claim. I just feel like I'm missing 8-ball shots that I am completely capable of making.
Click to expand...

Krupa, we can choke on any type of shot. My defiinition of choking is a bit different that others. We can choke on a difficult shot just as easily as on an easy shot. Choking is action that causes us to miss resulting from fear. When you are looking at an important shot, like game ball, one way to relieve the sense of fear is to put yourself in your home pool room where you are free-stroking and pocketing balls from all over the place. Practice finding a place in your mind that makes you feel confident and calm that you can draw on when you need it.
 
Advice

A couple things:

I have my students do most of their drills with the 8-ball/9-ball and that seems to help them get over it some.

I have asked countless people what they were thinking after they missed the money ball and their answer tends to be "just to make the ball". The difference between all other shots is you are focused on making it and not your normal routine. On the money ball you should play it as any other shot. I try to play position as if I were going to run my opponents balls (8-ball) or as if there was a 10 ball (9-ball) that I need shape on.

The other thing is to detach yourself from the result of the shot. Don't focus on the result but rather the smooth, fluid and perfect stroke with a great follow through.
 
After playing a few times since I originally posted this, I've decided that I really just need to keep practicing my fundamentals, shot-making, cue ball control... and every other aspect of the game. :smile:
 
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