Am I too much a purist???

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Is it just me or does it seem like the whole CNC thing is making people LAZY. I have seen many a pointed cue RUINED by rounded inlays. I am sorry, but I have just seen two titleists which have POINTS, have the flow of the cue interrupted by radius'es or radiia's or as I like to say multiple roundness. This for those who failed geometry.. diamonds, rectangles and squares have FOUR edges when shown in 2d. When you radius them you now have 8 surfaces. Blunts are for smoking, not for inlays. In fact now I think I'll refer to pointed cues with round inlays as cues suffering from blunt force trauma, or BFT cues.
Slotted diamonds, same thing. It's admirable that you are adopting the look, but running a round cutter in to pocket the diamonds for the slots is lazy..

JMHO..

JV

YOU CAN'T EVER BE "TOO MUCH OF A PURIST"

I TOTALLY AGREE THAT ROUNDED INLAYS DON'T BELONG IN SHARP POINTED CUES.

TRADITIONAL SHARP INLAY PATTERNS SHOULDN'T BE "LAZIED UP" BY NEW CUEMAKERS. IF YOU WANT TO DO ROUND INLAYS, DO OVALS AND CIRCLES.

THE ONE THAT BOTHERS ME THE MOST, ARE THESE "NEW" PROPELLORS, THAT ARE SO ROUNED, AND OUT OF PROPORTION THAT THEY ACTUALLY MAKE ME ANGRY.

IMO.... IF YOU CAN'T DO SOMETHING PROPERLY, DON'T DO IT.

MY FAVORITE REPLY FROM CUEMAKERS THAT DO ROUND INLAYS IS "SHARP INLAYS COST MORE" AND ALL THAT REPLY EVER MAKES THINK IS......"DON'T OFFER SHARP DESIGNS, LIKE DIAMONDS, AND BOXES, IF YOU CAN'T/WON'T DO SHARP WORK IN YOUR STANDARD PRICING".

I KNOW THAT I'M TO LAZY TO SHARPEN INLAYS AND POCKETS, BUT THAT'S WHY I DON'T MAKE CUES.

 

[hangemhigh]

Right behind rounded points are GLUE LINES.

 

[Tony Zinzola]

Ok, Cue #1 was done 100% on the CNC. 2-4 Were done before I had CNC, so were all done with the cuesmith inlay machine. Some of 5 was done on the CNC and some wasn't.

It doesn't seem to be as easy to pick them out as people think.

The diamonds in the last cue are non CNC. Clearly, however, with all those dots, there could be elements of CNC in all cues.

Just out of curiosity though, what was the giveaway on #5?

By the way, I visited your website JV. You have plenty of cues with rounded inlays and glue lines for sale. I guess you're not as much as a purist as you want everybody to think.

 

[Fatboy]

all the dots are lined up right, is that called indexed? i'm not a cue maker,

Tony, Is it possible for you to use a marker and draw little yellow circles around the CnC work? and the hand work? on the cues that have both. I like all them except #1 is a bit busy for me, but its still nice work.

To answere the intional question, I'm kinda old school and perfer everything to be dont the hard way on a cue. But having said that I do own some CnC cues that are great and alot of work as well, I do like the old school way just a bit more thats all. Whats fun with the CnC cue's is all the cool stuff that is being created these days and also the percision of them,

Oh one other thing one poster asked if Geroge or Gus were still making dust would they have upgraded their equipment, I doubt it. George from the little I know seems like a simple man in terms of what he did, not simple as in dumb , but simple in term's of one lathe, small shop, no helpers, he put alot of time into his work, its obvoius when you see his cues. As for Gus I doubt that he would have, Barry hasnt, Barry would know better than anyone if his Dad would have upgraded or changed. Either way they were both masters of their trade. As for the new future greats there is nothing wrong with CnC-just a different trade.

oh yeah that Jacoby Box cue in this thread is GREAT. He is a cool guy too.

 

[classiccues]

Tony,
Maybe you misread my intent, it's not the CNC but the leaving the rounded, sometimes over rounded inlays in a sharp pointed cue that is the bone of contention. You have some great looking stuff, and as you have shown it looks like you took the time to perfect many, if not all the points.

Marcus bought up a good point on round ended propellers, they look like two ping pong paddles butted together at the handle. Ping pong for the ding dong.

JV

 

[classiccues]

By the way, I visited your website JV. You have plenty of cues with rounded inlays and glue lines for sale. I guess you're not as much as a purist as you want everybody to think.

Well Tony its called trade and consignment. Personally I wouldn't lay a torn dollar for a cue that had overly rounded inlays into a sharp pointed cue. I also wouldn't buy an a-jointed titlist, but that is another thread for another time.

JV (---still pure

 

[Tony Zinzola]

JV -

I've been on the phone with another cue maker for a while now and have too many beers while chatting, so if this post is incomprehensible, that is my excuse.

I'm not attacking you, so don't take it the wrong way.

I agree. I don't want rounded inlays in my cues. However, I put everything I have into all of my cues, trying to outdo what I have previously done. I am sure the people that do rounded inlays do the same. If I didn't have somebody to help me along, I would be in the same boat as them (I have been using CNC for maybe a month).

I was actually 100% anti CNC when I started out until I got educated. CNC does not mean round inlays. It is actually much easier to do sharp inlays with CNC than without. That being said, I don't care what you do in some woods, you will have glue lines if you want sharp points. If you don't, then you are a genius and I certainly do not fit into that category.

I can tell you this. I am about to do a cue where the customer designed notched tiffany spears and notched double tiffany diamonds. I warned them that the notches might have small radius's. They were fine with that. I would finish them up with a .015" cutter. After this thread, I will do my best to sharpen them up, so don't think I feel that I am above adapting. I want my work to be the best that it can be.

I guess what I'm getting at is I don't think it's good business to come on here and attack cuemakers. I know it's not your main business, but you do make money off of their hard work. If they want to stick to rounded inlays, then that's fine, but how can you attack them when you are making money off of them?

Certain cue makers on here have rubbed me the wrong way for one reason or other. I've learned to accept that they are who they are. I do things my way and they do things their way. There are many ways to bulid a cue. Some people may like rounded inlays and some may want them razor sharp. If a cuemaker is having trouble making sharp inlays via CNC, they are more than welcome to contact me. I don't know much, but I will help them with what I know.

 

[classiccues]

I guess what I'm getting at is I don't think it's good business to come on here and attack cuemakers. I know it's not your main business, but you do make money off of their hard work. If they want to stick to rounded inlays, then that's fine, but how can you attack them when you are making money off of them?

Certain cue makers on here have rubbed me the wrong way for one reason or other. I've learned to accept that they are who they are. I do things my way and they do things their way. There are many ways to bulid a cue. Some people may like rounded inlays and some may want them razor sharp. If a cuemaker is having trouble making sharp inlays via CNC, they are more than welcome to contact me. I don't know much, but I will help them with what I know.

Tony,
Have another beer, anyone who knows me will tell you I don't spend my money on cues that do not agree with my philosophy on how I like my cues. So when I rip a cuemaker, which I have been known to do on occasion, it's because they don't take the time to do what you do. Yes, it's extra effort, but damn it's worth it. I don't rip anyone I rep, or buy wholesale from personally. I have stopped buying from people that have switched to the cnc SLACKER mentality. I like traditional cues, that is what I buy, and it's what I center a lot of my designs around.
Don't confuse me with the other guy who will sell anything but couldn't tell a Szamboti from a Mali if they were right next to each other. That ain't me. BTW I am not attacking, I am just saying.. starting conversation, about personal preferences. Like big ta-ta's vs. small ta-ta's.. I likes'em big...

JV (---doesn't crap where he eats...

 

[Tony Zinzola]

I'll respond tomorrow. I've had 4 beers now, which means I'm ready to pass out.

I don't have much to add though. JV's answers were not what I expected. If what he says is true, there's nothing to argue.

I still think you've got to give some of the guys some slack. If they didn't have somebody to help them out as I did, you can't fault them for doing things the way that they do.

The only thing I do still want to know is what makes it so clear that the diamonds in cue #5 were non-cnc?

 

[hangemhigh]

Damn, I love attention to detail.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I'll respond tomorrow. I've had 4 beers now, which means I'm ready to pass out.

I don't have much to add though. JV's answers were not what I expected. If what he says is true, there's nothing to argue.

I still think you've got to give some of the guys some slack. If they didn't have somebody to help them out as I did, you can't fault them for doing things the way that they do.

The only thing I do still want to know is what makes it so clear that the diamonds in cue #5 were non-cnc?

TONY.... JOE MEANS WHAT HE SAYS.

HE FEELS THE SAME WAY I DO ABOUT ROUNDED INLAYS, AND YOU AND I HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION BEFORE.

IT'S NOT ANTI CNC, IT'S ANTI LAZY CUEMAKER. YO CAN USE A PANTOGRAPH, AND DO ROUNDED INLAYS.

SLACK MAY BE GIVEN TO GUYS IF THEY DID THERE OWN PATTERNS. BUT A GUY THAT BUILDS A TRADITIONAL CUE, AND THAN PUTS BIG HONKING DOUBLED ROUNDED INLAYS IN IT, SHOULDN'T BE BUILDING THAT STYLE CUES. IT'S DISRESPECTFUL TO THE TRADITIONALISTS THAT CAME BEFORE HIM.

P.S. IF 4 BEERS IS ENOUGH TO GET YOU LOOPY, WE NEED TO MEET UP AT THE EXPO NEXT YEAR, GET LOADED AND DO SOME NEGOTIATING.

MARCUS <--STILL NOT FEELING A BUZZ AFTER MY 5TH BEER.

 

[mullyman]

Ok, Cue #1 was done 100% on the CNC. 2-4 Were done before I had CNC, so were all done with the cuesmith inlay machine. Some of 5 was done on the CNC and some wasn't.

It doesn't seem to be as easy to pick them out as people think.



Just out of curiosity though, what was the giveaway on #5?

By the way, I visited your website JV. You have plenty of cues with rounded inlays and glue lines for sale. I guess you're not as much as a purist as you want everybody to think.

I knew number one was 100% because I remember you posting about it a few weeks ago. Nice work, Tony.
MULLY

 

[classiccues]

MARCUS <--STILL NOT FEELING A BUZZ AFTER MY 5TH BEER.

Thats because 5 beers to you is not drinking... it's a blood transfusion...

JV :thumbup:

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Thats because 5 beers to you is not drinking... it's a blood transfusion...

JV :thumbup:

TRUE THAT....

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I like Recut Points, they look sharp & even.

 

[classiccues]

I like Recut Points, they look sharp & even.

Since you bought the cue into play....

If those diamonds have ANY cutter radii.. it's to much.. this is exactly what we are discussing...

NEXT...

JV

 

[hangemhigh]

Since you bought the cue into play....

If those diamonds have ANY cutter radii.. it's to much.. this is exactly what we are discussing...

NEXT...

JV

A cue masterfully executed sans inlays has more appeal to me, but if your going to add them, they better be sharp and pass an inspection with my loop.

 

[cutter]

Am I too much of a purist???

I know this post was about sharp vs rounded inlays. But, I'd like to digress a little bit. What seems to be the big hang up on cnc vs pantograph. A pantograph doesn't make sharp tips nor does the cnc. A .032 or .020 0r .010 cutter all have a radius. Doesn't matter what is moving them. A Stepper/servo motor following a numeric program, or a mechanical arm following a template. How would you categorize a pantograph using a template that was cut on a cnc machine. I'm just wondering because I've heard some buyers bad mouth cnc, but rave about pantograph cues.
In the case of Tony's very nice cues, who cares how he cut the pockets.
They are sharp, and they are a nice well executed design. Is his work diminished because some of it is cnc vs pantograph.
I don't think some people understand how a pantograph really works.
Hey but I've had 5 cups of coffee and the caffeine level is way up there.
Gotta go take a v spliced forearm out of the mill, oh oh, I used a power feed to move the bed, is that no no.

 

[Murray Tucker]

P.S. IF 4 BEERS IS ENOUGH TO GET YOU LOOPY, WE NEED TO MEET UP AT THE EXPO NEXT YEAR, GET LOADED AND DO SOME NEGOTIATING.

MARCUS <--STILL NOT FEELING A BUZZ AFTER MY 5TH BEER.

I've had 4 beers for breakfast at the expo.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I've had 4 beers for breakfast at the expo.

THAT'S A GIVEN.....I DON'T REMEMBER A DAY WHERE I DIDN'T HAVE 3 OR 4 BEFORE I GOT DOWN TO THE SHOW FLOOR.

A MORNING PICK ME UP IS ALWAYS GOOD....LOL....