America pool dead
- Thread starter berry
- Start date
berry said:
If you go by some of the opinions in this forum, it's been dead and buried for quite some time.
BTW, I ain't seen many Brits lighting up the scoreboards either.
Netherlands pays their pros to travel the world. Here in the States, the pros are on their own.
JAM
Dead? nah....down swing of course. Pool has been here before, a bunch of times and always makes a come back. The Pro tour side of things is now pitiful, but the regional tour events are strong.
I'm forever the optimist, and I'm just waiting for the up trend by some miracle movie, TV show, whatever. as long as I can take my pick of 6 or so pool rooms within an hour of my house, pools not dead IMO.
Gerry
I'm forever the optimist, and I'm just waiting for the up trend by some miracle movie, TV show, whatever. as long as I can take my pick of 6 or so pool rooms within an hour of my house, pools not dead IMO.
Gerry
have to say yes and no
"No" first. Even in comparative dollars I can only wish that pool had been this healthy in the mid-seventies. Pool hasn't made the huge leaps that we all wish it had but it is healthy and getting stronger all the time. If we were smart enough to ignore the get rich quick schemes it would be doing even better.
Now the "yes" why pool is in bad shape. It offers comparatively little opportunity. Say you have a child with great hand/eye coordination and the gift of a mathematical mind that computes angles without effort. Would you rather see them playing pool, hitting a golf or base ball, or playing tennis? Any way you look at it pool is at the bottom of the list.
I believe the people that are potentially the best pool players are out there either playing other sports or doing nothing competitive at all. Not putting myself in that category but I took a hard look at making a living playing pool thirty years ago. There was no way to do it in legitimate events even for the top ten players or so. A few had other deals on the side but most were forced into the seamy side of life to survive or forced to give up the sport. "Hard falls" of one sort or another were guaranteed for those that chose the seamy side of pool. It wasn't so much a matter of if as when.
I do believe that someone who keeps a close eye on the tournaments and cherry picks can at least eke out a thin living now but we are still not where I would like to see pool. The top one hundred male and top one hundred female players at the least should be able to make a decent living at the game.
Hu
"No" first. Even in comparative dollars I can only wish that pool had been this healthy in the mid-seventies. Pool hasn't made the huge leaps that we all wish it had but it is healthy and getting stronger all the time. If we were smart enough to ignore the get rich quick schemes it would be doing even better.
Now the "yes" why pool is in bad shape. It offers comparatively little opportunity. Say you have a child with great hand/eye coordination and the gift of a mathematical mind that computes angles without effort. Would you rather see them playing pool, hitting a golf or base ball, or playing tennis? Any way you look at it pool is at the bottom of the list.
I believe the people that are potentially the best pool players are out there either playing other sports or doing nothing competitive at all. Not putting myself in that category but I took a hard look at making a living playing pool thirty years ago. There was no way to do it in legitimate events even for the top ten players or so. A few had other deals on the side but most were forced into the seamy side of life to survive or forced to give up the sport. "Hard falls" of one sort or another were guaranteed for those that chose the seamy side of pool. It wasn't so much a matter of if as when.
I do believe that someone who keeps a close eye on the tournaments and cherry picks can at least eke out a thin living now but we are still not where I would like to see pool. The top one hundred male and top one hundred female players at the least should be able to make a decent living at the game.
Hu
The problem
is that professional pool can not get corporate sponsorships enough to maintain a tour over an extended period of time.
Another problem is that even the smaller tours are independent, with no roll up plan for bigger tours or events on a coordinated basis. And the existing Pool association authorities do not work together NEAR ENOUGH to give a solid ladder structure here in the states.
Basically, everyone is for themselves, and does the best they can. Everyone wants the big picture, but very few actually DO SOMETHING to make it happen.
And their have been past promoters, and current, that have been too much bullshit, and not enough businessman. Sports that grow, and become a steadfast activity here, have to transition from the rag-tag approach to becoming a P&L business with people in charge that are good businessmen, qualified businessmen, or women (excuse me ladies).
is that professional pool can not get corporate sponsorships enough to maintain a tour over an extended period of time.
Another problem is that even the smaller tours are independent, with no roll up plan for bigger tours or events on a coordinated basis. And the existing Pool association authorities do not work together NEAR ENOUGH to give a solid ladder structure here in the states.
Basically, everyone is for themselves, and does the best they can. Everyone wants the big picture, but very few actually DO SOMETHING to make it happen.
And their have been past promoters, and current, that have been too much bullshit, and not enough businessman. Sports that grow, and become a steadfast activity here, have to transition from the rag-tag approach to becoming a P&L business with people in charge that are good businessmen, qualified businessmen, or women (excuse me ladies).
berry said:
Hey Berry, haven't seen you around here for a while...then again you probably haven't seen me around matchroom's forum much either lol.
If I may throw my two cents in I would say calling the American pool scene would be a little harsh. There is no question it is struggling when compared to other markets in Asia and even Europe. Perhaps the biggest problem I see over here is the lack of a legitimate pro tour for the players to compete on
If your a young aspiring pro players in the US you have to wonder how on earth your ever gonna make a living playing pool, if your a young aspiring pro in Asia you know you could make a living if you got on the pro tour and landed a couple sponsors.
Perhaps the most concerning thing is the lack of good young players over here. Ten years from now when Archer, Morris, and company are around fifty where is the crop of young players that are gonna step in and carry the torch. I can only think of two young players in America I would consider truly world class players, Corey Duel and Shane Van Boeing. The Philipines and Chinese Taipei on the other hand have handfuls of players that have already proved themselves on the international scene in major tournaments.
A particular situation that stood out for me was at this years WPC when Corey Deuel played Wu Chia-Ching in the L32, these guys were probably the best young players in their respected countries and the match was hyped up and highly anticipated by all to be one of the best of the tournament. The match ended up being a one sided affair with Corey claiming "I have absolutely no chance against this kid" after the scoreline had reached 10-1 (alternating break format).
Hopefully there will be some change in the future, atleast start up a pro tour or something up here cause if things remain the same they are only going to get worse.
MrLucky said:Then how do we account for the ever increasing rolls of new players every year in the APA ? They are not coming to the league from other countries!
Excellent point.
People in general grade and focus on the play of the cream of the crop top flight pros, and don't focus on the masses of people playing, spending money, and enjoying the game.
John Schimdt won the US Openberry said:
Johnny Archer won the Challenge of Champions plus numerous other things last year. America pulled a clutch tie to retain the Mosconi cup and win it almost every year.
How is America not winning anything? Or are we just talking about the three IPT events and the WPC?
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Pool is just as fun as ever. Casual players enjoy it at least as frequently now as in the past, based on my many acquaintances. Indeed, many of the big tourneys are won by great players that are not from the U. S. A. however, the american pros are still there. Time will tell, but it seems to me that the one time dominance of the American players raised the bar and players from other countries responded by getting stronger. Perhaps the same will happen here, the players will get better and better. Ability to make good money is a deterent though.
I'm torn. Here's my perspective on it.
I don't think pool is dead in America. Player wise, I think its outstanding. I love our American players and I think we're very competitive. Fan and support wise is where I get iffy... EXAMPLE:
I started skateboarding when I was 12. For the longest time I couldn't find anyone to skateboard with. So I practiced alone, skated on the worst gear, and if I DID come across another skateboarder, we had to be instant friends because we had no one else. THEN the XGames came along... and then even worse, Tony Hawk Pro Skater came... and skateboarding's popularity exploded. After that there were little skate rats all over the place, with all this expensive gear on that their mommy and daddy bought them, talking about doing all these insane tricks when they couldn't even do the basic ones. "Do a 900!", they'd yell at me. I became kind of bitter. Worse then that, skateboarding developed cliques and I couldn't even talk to some skaters because of how stuck up they were.
So in one hand, I want pool to become popular, especially in America, to give those that work hard and love the sport, the money they deserve. But on the other hand, I don't want pool to end up like skateboarding. I want to be able to meet any pool player and consider him a friend and brother in the sport out of sheer respect for the game.
sorry for the rant... but the idea just popped in my head and I had to get it out. I may not even expressed it like I meant to...
-Zom
I don't think pool is dead in America. Player wise, I think its outstanding. I love our American players and I think we're very competitive. Fan and support wise is where I get iffy... EXAMPLE:
I started skateboarding when I was 12. For the longest time I couldn't find anyone to skateboard with. So I practiced alone, skated on the worst gear, and if I DID come across another skateboarder, we had to be instant friends because we had no one else. THEN the XGames came along... and then even worse, Tony Hawk Pro Skater came... and skateboarding's popularity exploded. After that there were little skate rats all over the place, with all this expensive gear on that their mommy and daddy bought them, talking about doing all these insane tricks when they couldn't even do the basic ones. "Do a 900!", they'd yell at me. I became kind of bitter. Worse then that, skateboarding developed cliques and I couldn't even talk to some skaters because of how stuck up they were.
So in one hand, I want pool to become popular, especially in America, to give those that work hard and love the sport, the money they deserve. But on the other hand, I don't want pool to end up like skateboarding. I want to be able to meet any pool player and consider him a friend and brother in the sport out of sheer respect for the game.
sorry for the rant... but the idea just popped in my head and I had to get it out. I may not even expressed it like I meant to...
-Zom
It's more like zombie state. Neither alive nor dead, it just doesn't know what to do next.
berry said:
No -
Not when there are $5000 added tournaments drawing 140 players (men) plus 30+ women in a state of 750,000 in the dead of winter - and most players will have from a 200 - 400 mile drive. No its not dead.
Pool is on a definite downswing where I live. Three pool halls have shut down in my area just in the last three years. There just doesn't seem to be any interest in pool any more. It's very sad. Fifteen years ago there was a tournament (at least one) every single night and if there were'nt 32 players, it was a slow night. Not to mention that every month there was a big money added tournament somewhere. Now we're lucky if there are two of those a year and if they get 40 players, it's HUGE. I quite honestly can't remember the last time I played in a tournament of any consequence. It's been years since I've played in one with 32 players. The last tournament I played in was about a month ago in Vancouver and there were 12 players. Another sad thing as that there are very few young people getting into the game. They are all playing poker now. The average age of the tournaments now is well into the 30's.