Americans @ WPC

[14.1player]

Why do the US players always underperform at the WPC? World class players like John Schmidt "Mr 400" seem to fail to even catch a gear in the group stages, and a winner of multiple tournaments, Shawn Putnam, is struggling in his group. Then there are guys like Eberle and Parica in 2004.

Year on year, we see heralded US players never making it out of the group stages.

The usual tournament suspects though, Strickland and Archer, breeze through the early stages.

 

[BlowFish]

'coz

Why do the US players always underperform at the WPC? World class players like John Schmidt "Mr 400" seem to fail to even catch a gear in the group stages, and a winner of multiple tournaments, Shawn Putnam, is struggling in his group. Then there are guys like Eberle and Parica in 2004.

Year on year, we see heralded US players never making it out of the group stages.

The usual tournament suspects though, Strickland and Archer, breeze through the early stages.

Archer(Good Boy) and Strickland(Bad Boy) are the real maccoys.

Steady and consistent.

 

[Timberly]

Why do the US players always underperform at the WPC? World class players like John Schmidt "Mr 400" seem to fail to even catch a gear in the group stages, and a winner of multiple tournaments, Shawn Putnam, is struggling in his group. Then there are guys like Eberle and Parica in 2004.

I'm only speaking about what little I know.... I'm sure John is giving it his all (why pay to go over there if you're not going to give it your best shot) however, in speaking with John at the Jacksonville tourney, I did learn that he's not a fan of 9 ball. Maybe there's a subconscious thing going on there... who knows? As far as Shawn goes... he's not as consistent as Earl or Johnny because he's really only "found his game". He's mentioned time & time again this yr about center cb and how it's changed his game and brought him to a new level. That's only been a few months, it's simply going to take time for him to be consistent with it.

 

[BlowFish]

Tough matches for John tomorrow.

I'm only speaking about what little I know.... I'm sure John is giving it his all (why pay to go over there if you're not going to give it your best shot) however, in speaking with John at the Jacksonville tourney, I did learn that he's not a fan of 9 ball. Maybe there's a subconscious thing going on there... who knows? As far as Shawn goes... he's not as consistent as Earl or Johnny because he's really only "found his game". He's mentioned time & time again this yr about center cb and how it's changed his game and brought him to a new level. That's only been a few months, it's simply going to take time for him to be consistent with it.

He will be up against Gande Valle and Marcus Chamat. Chamat is in the same boat as John. That will be a pretty good match as both will be all guns out to win to get a breather of hope to make the top 4.

Good luck to John.

 

[Celtic]

Archer(Good Boy) and Strickland(Bad Boy) are the real maccoys.

Steady and consistent.

And Duell is proving that despite his playing more golf then pool he still has more natural skill then all but those two you just mentioned. If he actually stayed focused on this game he has the ability to shoot as good as anyone in the world and he has the right mentality and confidence it takes to go across seas to Taiwan and show people he deserves to be there and will be a threat to any of their stars.

I think American pool players are mentally weak for the most part compared to Asian players and to a lesser extent Europeans. They are used to playing on their home turf where amature players pee down their leg and shoot like crap giving the pros the free ride. The only people they have to worry about are other "name" pros as anyone who is not a "name" player rarely brings a game and spends more time choking because they are playing a Schmidt or Jones or Williams. The pros get lazy as a result and then they go to Taiwan where noone knows them and vise versa and they get guys shooting back at them and they fold under the pressure as they are not used to it.

Asian players have alot less ego IMO, they do not wrap up their pride in their name and that is why they are able to stay cool and confident under fire. The American pros are undoubtably there trying to prove to the world that they deserve the fame they have and can compete at the highest level, and they are getting beat by far lesser known players who are not there to prove how great they are to the world, just to beat people and win the tournament.

 

[sjm]

Why do the US players always underperform at the WPC? World class players like John Schmidt "Mr 400" seem to fail to even catch a gear in the group stages, and a winner of multiple tournaments, Shawn Putnam, is struggling in his group. Then there are guys like Eberle and Parica in 2004.

Year on year, we see heralded US players never making it out of the group stages.

The usual tournament suspects though, Strickland and Archer, breeze through the early stages.

Well, this is a very tough question, but I do believe that before this trend can be reversed, the American men will have to begin competing on tough equipment again. It wasn't long ago that all men's pro events in the US were played on 4 1/2 inch equipment. Far too many pro events in the US are played on loose tables that don't punish sloppy play, and I believe it has lessened the pedigree of some of the top American players.

 

[Timberly]

Well, this is a very tough question, but I do believe that before this trend can be reversed, the American men will have to begin competing on tough equipment again. It wasn't long ago that all men's pro events in the US were played on 4 1/2 inch equipment. Far too many pro events in the US are played on loose tables that don't punish sloppy play, and I believe it has lessened the pedigree of some of the top American players.

SJM, I think most people would be surprised at how many pro's would agree with that statement. I've heard quite a few talk about it and some (Harriman) have been vocal about it publicly. All other pro sports play their games to the same specs all the time.... the cup in golf will always be the same size, the tennis net will always be the same length & height, basketball & football will always be played on the same size court/field and the size of the balls don't change either. The list goes on... then you come to pro pool. Different tables, different pocket sizes, different balls, different cloth, etc... It really is a farce when you think about it.

 

[BlowFish]

And Duell is proving that despite his playing more golf then pool he still has more natural skill then all but those two you just mentioned. If he actually stayed focused on this game he has the ability to shoot as good as anyone in the world and he has the right mentality and confidence it takes to go across seas to Taiwan and show people he deserves to be there and will be a threat to any of their stars.

I think American pool players are mentally weak for the most part compared to Asian players and to a lesser extent Europeans. They are used to playing on their home turf where amature players pee down their leg and shoot like crap giving the pros the free ride. The only people they have to worry about are other "name" pros as anyone who is not a "name" player rarely brings a game and spends more time choking because they are playing a Schmidt or Jones or Williams. The pros get lazy as a result and then they go to Taiwan where noone knows them and vise versa and they get guys shooting back at them and they fold under the pressure as they are not used to it.

Asian players have alot less ego IMO, they do not wrap up their pride in their name and that is why they are able to stay cool and confident under fire. The American pros are undoubtably there trying to prove to the world that they deserve the fame they have and can compete at the highest level, and they are getting beat by far lesser known players who are not there to prove how great they are to the world, just to beat people and win the tournament.

You are right, I should have included Cory Deuel who shares the top with Neils Feijen in Group 12. The group marked as the Death Group.

You're quite correct on your observations though. Give them the chance to realise their arrogance, then things might change.

(Cut more comments as I might offend many.)

 

[tonyc]

I think you need to cut the 1st time players that went over there to play a break. This tournament is like no other, the pressure in a race to 5 alternate break is crazy and if that wasnt bad enough you never know where you stand in the points because of the round robin format.
If this event was in the US then I am sure the American players would do better. There is a 12 hour time change somthing that most of the people writing on this forum would know nothing about. 12 hours diffeerence takes some getting used too especially when you just came of a 15 to 20 hour travell.
good luck to all the guys out there playing and representing there Country.

 

[Celtic]

I would hope the players from America had the sense to come 2 or 3 days early and get adjusted to the time change. I myself have traveled from Canada to Australia twice in the last 1.5 years so a 12 hour time difference is something I am well aware of. On stopovers in Singapore I am almost already on the proper schedual though, it does not take long to get adjusted if you knock yourself out with Gravol on the plane (which have tended to arrive in the morning on my flights). This stuff can be prepared for. I dont see the problem as physical Tony, sorry I just dont. I have watched too much pool from Asian up and commers compared to American players and I see a big difference in approach to the game. It is their attitude towards the game that makes them the better competitors. Any American player who wants to be way better should spend 6 months or a year living in Taiwan figuring out what makes that culture tick and immersing themselves in the pool scene there. I think it would be enlightening to alot of them as the way the players approach the game there is quite different.

 

[DawgAndy]

I think some of it may be jet lag. Corey has been practicing pretty regular lately so his game should be more consistent. The fact that the American men don't have a consistant tour with tough equipment is probaby one of the biggest factors though.

Andy

 

[Celtic]

The fact that the American men don't have a consistant tour with tough equipment is probaby one of the biggest factors though.

Good call, that is a huge problem as well.

 

[Timberly]

I think some of it may be jet lag. Corey has been practicing pretty regular lately so his game should be more consistent. The fact that the American men don't have a consistant tour with tough equipment is probaby one of the biggest factors though.

Andy

Jet lag was something that crossed my mind too. When I went from PA to Vegas back in May, I was still feeling it 3 days later. I was told that Corey & I think Gabe, went over earlier than some of the other guys. Something about playing in a local tourney there... if that's the case then they've had more time than others to adjust. Celtic, I can understand your point about getting yourself adjusted to the time change and the long flight quickly. However, you've made the long flights before and you knew how to prepare. Some of these guys have never made this kind of trip before and are not aware of the effects or how to do as you do, and better prepare themselves along the way.

 

[gabesmom]

Jet lag was something that crossed my mind too. When I went from PA to Vegas back in May, I was still feeling it 3 days later. I was told that Corey & I think Gabe, went over earlier than some of the other guys. Something about playing in a local tourney there... if that's the case then they've had more time than others to adjust. Celtic, I can understand your point about getting yourself adjusted to the time change and the long flight quickly. However, you've made the long flights before and you knew how to prepare. Some of these guys have never made this kind of trip before and are not aware of the effects or how to do as you do, and better prepare themselves along the way.

Gabe called and said that during his first week there - at the Phillipine Open- he probably lost 10 lbs., due to his lack of finding good food, which has caused a bit of illness. It's his first trip over there. I asked if he would go back, he said 'Defnitely'. Maybe next time he'll know a bit more of how to handle things - or find better food! He didn't say anything about Cory, although they said they were happy to have found a good steak house a few nights ago, the first night they flew over for the WPC.

 

[sniper]

I don't think jetlag is much of a problem, this is the biggest tournament of the year and if a pro didn't prepare for the jetlag ahead of time...well that's just foolish on their part.

A possibility might be the fact that Americans don't compete outside their own country very much. With the exception of Archer, Strickland, Morris and a couple others how often do you see players like Putnam and Schmidt compete outside America? Maybe these players are a little uncomfortable being thousands of miles away from home playing in front of pro-asian fans.

Just a thought.

 

[tonyc]

I dont think you can compare America with Asia for one they are treated like gods over there for playing pool, Here there is more chance of someone trying to run you down.
As for the World Championships the 1st stage is a lottery it dont matter how good you play you can lose against good players in alternate break race to 5. look at Efren's 1st couple of days and he is the best player in the world. Its has also been a long time sinfce he won the World Championship's.

The food also does have a lot to do with it I have spoken to a few of the guys out there and there stomachs are off in a bad way.
I am not saying that the American players couldnt do better cause I think they can, I just think we should give them a little more support rather than Knock them all the time. Its just seems to me that a lot of people want players to lose rather than rooting them on.

 

[Timberly]

I dont think you can compare America with Asia for one they are treated like gods over there for playing pool, Here there is more chance of someone trying to run you down.

That one made me laugh out loud! However, when the laughter stops and you really think about it, it's actually quite saddening because of how true it is.

 

[Celtic]

Its just seems to me that a lot of people want players to lose rather than rooting them on.

There you are wrong. I would like nothing better then to see them do awesome. I root for the underdog alot of the time and due to the hype that Taiwan and the Philipines is getting these days in the game I see America as the underdog.

Furthermore ever since John Schmidt tried to hustle me at the Cue Club in Las Vegas a few years ago (I was smart enough to pass until I got to watch him drill every player he played) I have been a fan of his. He has a seriously awesome game and his composure at the table was simply phenomenal, I learned alot just watching him and the way he handled the table. His standing surprises me, of all the Americans I thought he had a really good shot of surprising the world I figured he would be one of them.

Thats what makes me so choked and admittedly vocal. I dont want to watch an ass kicking contest every year in the WPC where American players get drilled but for the few American pro's like Archer and Strickland who have the proper mindset to win the matches they are supposed to. Race to 5 alternate break is not a long race, but in the entire round robin you are playing 7 matches, that is 35 games minimum. You dont have to win all your matches to make the final 64, loosing one match to some bad breaks is understandable, being 1 in 3 after 4 matches though and loosing to multiple players who are not well known or pro's and are from Europe and dealing with the same jet lag and food issues? I would expect the true American pro's to be able to put up a fight against anyone and it is depressing to see them fold and not play their true speed.

 

[sjm]

Nobody roots harder for the American players at the WPC than me, but this thread is making me sick. Jet lag? Please. Outside the continent of Asia, there are just three coutires that have a right to call themselves pool superpowers, and those would be Germany, Holland, and the United States of America. The Germans and the Dutch also have the jet lag issue to deal with and I'm sure that the food isn't exactly what they are used to either. Comparative performance of the three non-Asian superpowers on Day 1 of the 2005 WPC shows that the Germans and the Dutch had no trouble at all with jet lag and the food. Maybe it was their opponents that had the trouble!

 

[Timberly]

Nobody roots harder for the American players at the WPC than me, but this thread is making me sick. Jet lag? Please.

Day 1 of the 2005 WPC shows that the Germans and the Dutch had no trouble at all with jet lag and the food. Maybe it was their opponents that had the trouble!

Dang SJM, didn't mean to get you fired up over there. I was just throwing out a possibility. Not everyone has the funds to go out there a week early and only had a couple of days (if that) to acclimate themselves to things. If it'll get your heart rate back down, I'll retract it.