an open letter to apa haters

[Physiqz]

Why would an lo.not want a masters division ? You would get players that do not like the rules and handicapping associated with lower level players. An added division with added players puts more money in the lo' s pocket. Why would he Tue down a chance to make more money ?

Where did you get the opinion that master players have to pay their own way ? The masters division winners here get paid trips just like all the other divisions.

Bingo ! You hit the nail on the head about men's pro pool.

You are correct about the majority being low level players...i prefer that term instead fo bar bangers. The fact is most of those players have jobs...families...lucky to get oit once a week to play with the way some wives are. Most have neither the time...devotion or drive ....desire to become the next Vince or fast Eddie felson like some posters on here.

My point is the apa.offers a format for low level players all the WA up to people like Brian parks who son people say oughta be a pro. Why would he want to be a pro..he has a job and a family and plays pool.because he loves the game.....not to be a broke ass pro.

A lot of it has to do with the LO, when they had masters here, that is how it was ran. And when you become too good, he bans you from the league, if a bar/hall allows another league, he bans that bar/hall from having apa. In this area we are growing tired of the LO and I know it is not APA, but when we took this to APA corp, they did not care because of how big this particular LO area is and how much he is making.

 

[Physiqz]

@ Bavafongoul

I play because i love the game and inspire to become a better player. Without a league, tournament, action or anything else, I would still play and practice. I am a perfectionist so it pulls me in. I am also a critical think, so it pulls me in. My wife hates it though, lol.

 

[sbpoolleague]

I may come across as a dick when I speak about the APA, but my feelings come from these three principles:

1) I am fundamentally opposed to any local amateur sports league that is "for profit".

2) I am in strong support of a single national (if not international) handicapping system for pocket billiards. (Preferably FargoRate)

3) I am in strong support of a uniform set of rules for all games pocket billiards. (Preferably WPA)

There ya have it. I'm not going to change. I know you won't either.

 

[Shenanigans]

Lo lo, nice post. Not that I dislike league but if they would adopt my 30 rule I'd like it 100% more lol. It seems like a no brainer to me honestly, with the exception of course it would slow down somewhat the need for creation of new teams which of course I also understand is against their business model

I do agree I would like to see the handicap moved up. The argument will always be if you raise it you wont have to play any lower skilled players. If you moved it to 25 you could play a line up of all 5's.

If you raised the total to 30 eventually all the top players would get together and form monster teams. Get four of the strongest 7's in the area and a two that can't make a ball. You would almost never lose.

 

[lorider]

Lorider.....I don't hate APA.....but why can't I get a letter also?
It ain't fair......you don't call, you don't write.....:crying:

Sorry I have not written you pt. ...too busy responding to apa haters right now.

Lemme make it up to you some time if you are ever near Memphis. I can teach you how to sandbag....err hustle with the best of them .

 

[lorider]

I may come across as a dick when I speak about the APA, but my feelings come from these three principles:

1) I am fundamentally opposed to any local amateur sports league that is "for profit".

2) I am in strong support of a single national (if not international) handicapping system for pocket billiards. (Preferably FargoRate)

3) I am in strong support of a uniform set of rules for all games pocket billiards. (Preferably WPA)

There ya have it. I'm not going to change. I know you won't either.

You and I have had our differences SB but I have to say I respect your opinion in this post.

You give an honest opinion of your beliefs without resorting to name calling and belittling people who do not agree with you.

I would not try to change your opinion because you are entitled to yours just as I am to mine.

 

[Mrdodd72]

I dislike handicapped leagues; played them, won't do it again.

As a long time avid player I have no problem with novice players, and will give them as much help as they are willing to take.

The problem I have will leagues, particularly APA, is the pervasive moral ambiguity that the structure seems to promote; sandbagging, sharking, lack of etiquette, and an all out focus on "getting to Vegas," rather than player development.

Bless the leagues for bringing $$ to bar/billiard parlor owners, and the industry, but I am not convinced that it is a positive force in developing billiards as a sport.

 

[justaplayer]

A blight? worst return? Well, your right the game is headed for extinction and it's all the APA's fault.
C'mon, so you're blaming The APA for the awful things going on the Middle East, unemployment,
inflation, homeless, and let's see, what else......

Why do you play pool? Do you currently, or one day hope to play professionally and make a living doing it?
How long have you been playing?

I'm an APA player, not the best, but certainly not the worst. I spend time practicing and trying to improve,
most probably not to your level. I like The APA, I enjoy my time there competing, playing pool, hanging out
with friends.

Just why do you feel like it needs to be done to your questionable standards?
Why do you think you are the authority?
You don't like it, we all get that. You know what the really great thing about that is?

You never have to play in The APA, isn't that great?

So don't worry about their rules, or money, or players, they should never be a concern of yours.
Feel free to never join or attend an APA event, 'cause frankly, all the whining your doing makes
you look,..... well...... jealous, scorned woman territory, just let it go,
trust me - you don't need the headache

Let me make it clear how the APA is a poor return on your investment. If I ran a tournament and kept 70 percent of the entry fees, would you consider that excessive? All that money going to the board and operations of the APA and other leagues helps pool how??? Please give me a genuine example of how leagues give back to really support pool.

As for being a drain on pool, APA has dramatically reduced the number of players who may have otherwise progressed to playing pool in a less than casual way...be that big table, other games...whatever. Locally in 5 years I've seen only a couple guys move into mediocre amateur skill levels who weren't players a few years ago. Used to be at least a handful every year that would join the ranks of more avid players. Some would progress to higher levels. These guys learn about pool, it's culture, the players and attend the regional events. They have league events alongside pro events in Vegas and league players have no idea who the stars of the game are and they don't even go to watch.

What I'm saying above are the dynamics that lead us to where the game is now...going nowhere. When you kill pool locally on a nationwide scale, its a death sentence.

 

[justaplayer]

I think we play for different reasons. I don't look for a return when I play golf or go fishing. It is entertainment and I enjoy competing. Pool is something you can still do at 48 and compete with the young fellas. Used to play allot of basketball but the knees just couldn't hold up. I have yet to get hurt shooting pool. As far as the APA giving back, I think they do a decent job with their main base of players and if it keeps growing I am not sure why you think pool is going to become extinct.

Because literraly thousands of rooms have closed.

 

[justaplayer]

Why should they? Let the leagues that aspire to develop champions do that.

Why should rational decent people who like to go out and enjoy themselves with a a particular activity have any obligation to support people who have made disastrous life choices?

And BTW, a clue, constantly insulting league players and calling them names is not the way to get them to do anything you want.

But you can infer that pro pool players are scumbags? Ok that's fair.

 

[lorider]

Let me make it clear how the APA is a poor return on your investment. If I ran a tournament and kept 70 percent of the entry fees, would you consider that excessive? All that money going to the board and operations of the APA and other leagues helps pool how??? Please give me a genuine example of how leagues give back to really support pool.

As for being a drain on pool, APA has dramatically reduced the number of players who may have otherwise progressed to playing pool in a less than casual way...be that big table, other games...whatever. Locally in 5 years I've seen only a couple guys move into mediocre amateur skill levels who weren't players a few years ago. Used to be at least a handful every year that would join the ranks of more avid players. Some would progress to higher levels. These guys learn about pool, it's culture, the players and attend the regional events. They have league events alongside pro events in Vegas and league players have no idea who the stars of the game are and they don't even go to watch.

What I'm saying above are the dynamics that lead us to where the is now...going nowhere. When you kill pool locally on a nationwide scale, its a death sentence.

Tell your story to svb.....jason Kirkwood...alex olinger.....oh yea....and rob Melrose who had Dennis o crying to be let out of a 1,000.00.match at the southern classic. They all came up through leagues.

 

[justaplayer]

May I ask what it is you do for a living? Philanthropist? Do you work for free?

You are missing the point.

When a company takes money like this and gives nothing back, how does that help preserve and grow the game? Its a corporation....there is no altruistic vision for APA.

 

[justaplayer]

The problem with pool is this prevailing sentiment amongst those who perceive themselves as the "elite".

So in a game of skill we shouldn't aspire to be better than our opponents? Just live and die an APA 4 and feel good about our accomplishments?

 

[BmoreMoney]

I do agree I would like to see the handicap moved up. The argument will always be if you raise it you wont have to play any lower skilled players. If you moved it to 25 you could play a line up of all 5's.

If you raised the total to 30 eventually all the top players would get together and form monster teams. Get four of the strongest 7's in the area and a two that can't make a ball. You would almost never lose.

K, good point - haven't seen this one yet. Easy - no more than two 7'a a night . MY idea proposes it could be a 3,4,5,6,7 ( that's only 25 and a little room to play with.) They say the average league player is between 4-5. WELL that example I just gave is an average of 5. Some will be more, some less but it could keep teams together . I know if that were the case I'd play, and so would a bunch of other people I know. As I've said, me and my buddies we don't look at this as serious pool nor trying to make money or Vegas - just a fun night out with our peeps.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Why not just play apa masters? In a given area there are WAY more 4,5,6 then 7s. Just because there is no hadicap doesnt mean a 4 or 5 cant beat a 6 on any given night. You may have a couple stacked teams but so what, you should enjoy the experience and take it as a time to learn. After the match you might ask the better players some questions, most people are friendly and spent alot of time working on their game. They are usually happy to help in my experience.
Discuss.

 

[justaplayer]

I dislike handicapped leagues; played them, won't do it again.

As a long time avid player I have no problem with novice players, and will give them as much help as they are willing to take.

The problem I have will leagues, particularly APA, is the pervasive moral ambiguity that the structure seems to promote; sandbagging, sharking, lack of etiquette, and an all out focus on "getting to Vegas," rather than player development.

Bless the leagues for bringing $$ to bar/billiard parlor owners, and the industry, but I am not convinced that it is a positive force in developing billiards as a sport.

Well said.....certainly better than I have.

The problem is APA, League Ops and 90 plus percent of APA players could care less about the history or future of pool. Just a way to make easy money and a reason to drink on a Wednesday!

 

[lorider]

So in a game of skill we shouldn't aspire to be better than our opponents? Just live and die an APA 4 and feel good about our accomplishments?

You naysayers need to get your chit together. Half of you say the apa is a pyramid scheme to force teams to break up and acquire new players to join.

The other half say apa players are nothing but bangers who will never improve.

So the question is....which bunch of ya'll are right ?

 

[justaplayer]

Tell your story to svb.....jason Kirkwood...alex olinger.....oh yea....and rob Melrose who had Dennis o crying to be let out of a 1,000.00.match at the southern classic. They all came up through leagues.

SVB was born into a pool playing family. As a kid he played league sure.

Kirkwood is a wizard who plays better after every beer until the balls go in by themselves.

Rob had a huge spot and Orcullo is a crybaby no matter who he plays....it was hill hill and Orcullo pulled up.

Not sure if you proved anything with your examples.

 

[justaplayer]

Why not just play apa masters? In a given area there are WAY more 4,5,6 then 7s. Just because there is no hadicap doesnt mean a 4 or 5 cant beat a 6 on any given night. You may have a couple stacked teams but so what, you should enjoy the experience and take it as a time to learn. After the match you might ask the better players some questions, most people are friendly and spent alot of time working on their game. They are usually happy to help in my experience.
Discuss.

In masters here I "won" $500 bucks to go to Vegas which covered about 25% of the cost of going to the Riviera Casino.... where blackjack deers dealt me 16 until I went broke...Its a farce

 

[justaplayer]

You naysayers need to get your chit together. Half of you say the apa is a pyramid scheme to force teams to break up and acquire new players to join.

The other half say apa players are nothing but bangers who will never improve.

So the question is....which bunch of ya'll are right ?

Ill go with camp number 2....and that you guys desevere more for your time and money.