An open note to Predator regarding REVO availability
- Thread starter RakRunr
- Start date
Sorry, my eyes apparently aren’t working today...
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Thanks for reminding me why I shouldn’t post here, I won’t make that mistake again.
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No problem....
Wait till the tariffs hit on the revo shaft coming from China hit then the retail will jump to 700 anyway lol
Lol, exactly!!
And the people talking about a boycott of Predator over unavailability don't even realize how ridiculous they sound.
This is only true in make to stock manufacturing environments with poor forecasting. These aren't even make to order items as this long of a back log would render the business not viable. When talking about engineer to order products which is where I believe these shafts fall the long lead time and premium price is expected (a real argument could be made they are priced too low).
I think Russ has this thing nailed...pure marketing. If not marketing they are having a real raw material issue or catastrophic failure in manufacturing. One thing is certain though, supply is not driving price on the primary market or secondary market....hype is.
Still waiting on a guy to beat me with a Revo that couldnt beat me with maple
With all due respect, I think your position is ridiculous.
Predator Revo shafts are price fixed for authorized retailers; they sell for $499.
There is a current demand but no product... to think they will purposely wait for sale competition with others (Mezz and CueTec) is pointless when they fix their price and can sell as many as they can currently provide.
There is no such marketing that reduces the sale of fixed price product in hope of getting more sales. I can assure you they are not holding stock for the purpose of selling stock when there is competition for their stock.
There is no such marketing that raises hype to the point other major billiard companies create their on production lines.
Haters are going to hate...but come-on; at least make some since.
Most likely there are production and/or quality issues that are not being shared except for a few rumors of large internal QA rejections resulting in scrap.
Exactly! :thumbup: I know for sure that guys at BeCue are grinning like hell because of Predator's inability to produce more Revo shafts
They are actually at big advantage in this situation as the whole BeCue operation is built around CF cues exclusively so they are much more flexible in meeting their customer's need
I think this whole thread is ridiculous.
Where is the old virtue of patience? If you really want a black shaft so badly, why can't you wait? Does your life or your entire pool career depend on it? This isn't some cancer medicine, it is a friggin' pool shaft!
WRT marketing. Sure it is a marketing ploy. If you can't see that you must have been living in a communist country for too long or you just don't understand nuthin' about capitalism. The Revo is apparently available - you will have to buy a full cue though. Just checked Seybert's and there is no mention that you can't buy the Revo WITH a cue like this one.
If that does not make you think ...
Want to bet? As soon as the Cuetec shaft is out the demand in Revos will be met. Maybe a short time after the first ones hit the stores but soon after.
The BeCue is not an issue for Predator since that company is way too small to pose a significant threat to Predator sales. But once Mezz, Cuetec and others are in the game the magic will happen - Revos will be available all over the place. Wait for the next marketing attack from Predator with the Mark II (or whatever it will eventually be called) which will then be praised to have even lower deflection, complete indestructibility and/or being 200% better than anything yet seen. And that might again be in short supply because of all the want-to-have-nows.
Predator is the smartest company in the pool business and they have proven it for many years. The fools who need anything Predator announces right on the first or second day make it really easy for them. They found out how to top Apple's IPhone marketing and due to that artificially decreased supply the myth about the Revos grows excessively. Even this thread makes Revos more desirable to those people. The whining about a lack of availability makes them want them even more. You are only playing into their hands instead of your desired intent of making Predator "think".
If you don't like their marketing, go somewhere else. They won't care a bit because hundreds of others will stay. If you are really smart, play your old cue and wait for another year or two and wait until all the real facts about durability etc. are on the table and then decide if you really need the Revo.
Where is the old virtue of patience? If you really want a black shaft so badly, why can't you wait? Does your life or your entire pool career depend on it? This isn't some cancer medicine, it is a friggin' pool shaft!
WRT marketing. Sure it is a marketing ploy. If you can't see that you must have been living in a communist country for too long or you just don't understand nuthin' about capitalism. The Revo is apparently available - you will have to buy a full cue though. Just checked Seybert's and there is no mention that you can't buy the Revo WITH a cue like this one.
If that does not make you think ...
Want to bet? As soon as the Cuetec shaft is out the demand in Revos will be met. Maybe a short time after the first ones hit the stores but soon after.
The BeCue is not an issue for Predator since that company is way too small to pose a significant threat to Predator sales. But once Mezz, Cuetec and others are in the game the magic will happen - Revos will be available all over the place. Wait for the next marketing attack from Predator with the Mark II (or whatever it will eventually be called) which will then be praised to have even lower deflection, complete indestructibility and/or being 200% better than anything yet seen. And that might again be in short supply because of all the want-to-have-nows.
Predator is the smartest company in the pool business and they have proven it for many years. The fools who need anything Predator announces right on the first or second day make it really easy for them. They found out how to top Apple's IPhone marketing and due to that artificially decreased supply the myth about the Revos grows excessively. Even this thread makes Revos more desirable to those people. The whining about a lack of availability makes them want them even more. You are only playing into their hands instead of your desired intent of making Predator "think".
If you don't like their marketing, go somewhere else. They won't care a bit because hundreds of others will stay. If you are really smart, play your old cue and wait for another year or two and wait until all the real facts about durability etc. are on the table and then decide if you really need the Revo.
I don't know how many here have contacted Predator directly about this but i have. More than once actually. A guy named Max always responds and quickly i might add. His/Predator's response: ALL Revo's are made in a factory just outside Boston,MA. They fully admit that they WAY underestimated demand and are doing all they can to fill orders. More production capability is in the works. Now, i for one do not believe that Pred. is " sitting on a pile of shafts" to artificially pump demand thus price. BTW, i'm not a Instagram guy but Max said they recorded a video at the Revo plant and you can see it there. Not sure when it will be posted to IG.
So, you really believe what a Predator rep is stating? How come you can buy complete new cues with Revos all over the world and even the occasional new shaft for a premium?
If you were a company ceo and could sell a cue for $2k or so thereby making a profit of let's say $1.5k or 3 shafts with a profit of - let's guess - 300 each, what would you do? I would keep the flow of shafts artificially low as long as I could afford to do that.
As long as there is no SERIOUS competiton that is one of the oldest marketing ploys in capitalism. Yep, BeCue is going to be happy with that situation but I doubt they will have any real effect on one of the very few pool industry giants.
They even do it with new cancer treatments and other medicines. Now, that would be something worth complaining about.
On a lesser scale it is done with all new products - like new tv sets, computers, smart phones etc. Most of the times they don't need to keep production low - the pricing does that all by itself. You could, however, argue that they could sell twice as many IPhones for half the price. True. But that would ruin the myth of the IPhone in the first place. And it would not result in a net profit gain. So they keep the price where it is.
Predator could not charge twice the current price of the Revo. If they did that they might still sell some cues but it would most probably destroy their reputation to some degree. Most everyone would call them a rip-off company and it would certainly hurt future sales once the competition put their stuff on the market for less than half the price. Reducing the price to 50% then would still hurt their standing in the pool world. So they do the natural thing, make the shaft highly desirable by creating a squeeze in supply.
A very smart move by Predator. Again.
If you were a company ceo and could sell a cue for $2k or so thereby making a profit of let's say $1.5k or 3 shafts with a profit of - let's guess - 300 each, what would you do? I would keep the flow of shafts artificially low as long as I could afford to do that.
As long as there is no SERIOUS competiton that is one of the oldest marketing ploys in capitalism. Yep, BeCue is going to be happy with that situation but I doubt they will have any real effect on one of the very few pool industry giants.
They even do it with new cancer treatments and other medicines. Now, that would be something worth complaining about.
On a lesser scale it is done with all new products - like new tv sets, computers, smart phones etc. Most of the times they don't need to keep production low - the pricing does that all by itself. You could, however, argue that they could sell twice as many IPhones for half the price. True. But that would ruin the myth of the IPhone in the first place. And it would not result in a net profit gain. So they keep the price where it is.
Predator could not charge twice the current price of the Revo. If they did that they might still sell some cues but it would most probably destroy their reputation to some degree. Most everyone would call them a rip-off company and it would certainly hurt future sales once the competition put their stuff on the market for less than half the price. Reducing the price to 50% then would still hurt their standing in the pool world. So they do the natural thing, make the shaft highly desirable by creating a squeeze in supply.
A very smart move by Predator. Again.
Well, go ahead and call me stupid for taking a guy at his word. All you have is guesses/conjecture. Why don't you contact them directly with your insight and just see what they have to say. If you contact them via FB you'll hear back pretty quick.
Hahaja... no prob, just busting yer balls over your fingers betraying you.
We've all been there.
Predator is using premium fuel for its marketing motor, believe that.
I have a buddy who owns a bike shop and we were burning the midnight.he says, 'I have too many repairs. I cant keep up and it is killing me'. He was working like 8am-3am, 6d a week...making money, but couldn't do anything with it.
I told him to raise his prices and see what that did in a year.
Upon re-eval...less work, same money. He rarely spends the night at work anymore.
I told him to raise his prices and see what that did in a year.
Upon re-eval...less work, same money. He rarely spends the night at work anymore.
I'm not calling you stupid. Maybe a little naive. Do you honestly believe they would tell you or me about their marketing spiel?
What I take for granted is that they probably did not expect such a huge demand. I also don't think they have huge stacks of Revos sitting somewhere just holding them back. What I also believe is that they are looking for a new production facility - my guess would be somewhere in China. What I don't believe is that they seriously want to step up production A LOT. I am sure they realize that in a year the demand for Revos will fall to a normal level - due to the saturation of the market. Not only with their cf cue but with others as well. I don't have a clue as to how many shafts they are currently producing but opening up new facilities of their own to produce a huge mass of Revos would not make too much sense. Once the hype is over you don't want surplus production capabilities. I am sure they can come up with some other "improved" version in the future and generate new sales, no doubt. But the great cf craze will then be over and it will be business as usual again.
So, just watch the next 2 months before Xmas and I would accept a bet that Revos will be available again. With reasonable delivery times. If the Cuetec cf shaft is available in many places. If not, it may take a little longer. Once the Mezz is out the Revos will probably be discounted a little.
Let's watch it, we can talk again in a few months and see if I was right.
I work in manufacturing and here is what I know:
- it takes time to scale production up. Capital equipment has to be purchased etc, people have to get trained, raw materials may have a long lead time. if predator really did underestimate market demand they may really be scaling production right now and we are stuck waiting
- you don't just scale production when demand increases. my company currently does not have enough resources/people to produce what we have orders for in the timeline the customers want. we aren't hiring anybody though. because we believe it's a seasonal situation, and by the time we have hired and trained people and purchased more equipment, that demand/orders will have dropped to normal levels. predator doesn't want to get caught in a similar situation, so even though people are begging for more shafts it doesn't just automatically force to try and produce more. that introduces a lot of risk to the company should demand drop off.
- they could be sitting on stock and are controlling release, and maybe thats brilliant. but in my opinion I don't think that is what is occurring. If people are standing in line for your product, the price isn't high enough. If people are continuously purchasing a steady quantity of the product, the price is probably just right, and if sales are way down, the price might be too high all things equal. If they are actively ATTEMPTING to manipulate the price, they are already failing since the market price they are selling seems to be too low considering how many people are ready to pay for one.
- it takes time to scale production up. Capital equipment has to be purchased etc, people have to get trained, raw materials may have a long lead time. if predator really did underestimate market demand they may really be scaling production right now and we are stuck waiting
- you don't just scale production when demand increases. my company currently does not have enough resources/people to produce what we have orders for in the timeline the customers want. we aren't hiring anybody though. because we believe it's a seasonal situation, and by the time we have hired and trained people and purchased more equipment, that demand/orders will have dropped to normal levels. predator doesn't want to get caught in a similar situation, so even though people are begging for more shafts it doesn't just automatically force to try and produce more. that introduces a lot of risk to the company should demand drop off.
- they could be sitting on stock and are controlling release, and maybe thats brilliant. but in my opinion I don't think that is what is occurring. If people are standing in line for your product, the price isn't high enough. If people are continuously purchasing a steady quantity of the product, the price is probably just right, and if sales are way down, the price might be too high all things equal. If they are actively ATTEMPTING to manipulate the price, they are already failing since the market price they are selling seems to be too low considering how many people are ready to pay for one.