Analyze this (4)

Roy Steffensen

Roy Steffensen

locksmith
Silver Member
I played a match today, race to 150 for 100 $.

I was down 117 - 62 and on my 4 next visits to the table I managed to turn the score around to make it 141 - 131 to me before I missed. My opponent ran 11 and missed, score 141 - 142, and this was the layout I was faced with. I needed only 9 of the 10 balls on the table, but 4 on them was "problem balls" near the longrail.

I thought about what to do for a while, and I also considered running the open balls and then play safety, just to put more pressure on my opponent.

In the end I decided to try to run the 9 balls I needed. I ended up behind the 3-ball after opening the cluster, and had to masse the cueball to pocket my insuranceball, the 11. I ended up with to much spin on the cueball, so after I hit the 11 it went back into the rail and rested there. I missed the next shot, and my opponent ran the table and opened up the next rack taking his last ball winning 150-144.

EDIT: Even though I lost I am not to angry when writing this a couple of hours later. I am still just learning the game, and till a couple of weeks ago I hated this game. I played an experienced player who practise 14-1 daily. I had runs of 27, 24, 23 and 20 and my average was 8,47. I beat this guy in 9-ball and 8-ball, so it is just a matter of time before I will beat him in 14-1 too ;)

So, here's the layout and what I did. (4 pages)

What should I do instead?

CueTable Help

 
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Its funny how we each have different shots we like and dislike. One of the ones I dislike is cutting that 6 in at the sharp angle you had.

I much rather prefer the 9 up table first for position on the 2 in the lower left corner, or the 2 in the side first, and in either case, get down for an angle on the 6 in the other corner and break out the 3 from there.

That's the beauty of 14.1 so many ways to go. :)

Thought I'd add my reasoning on this. Shooting the 6 ball with the low outside kind of "nip" english you would need on this shot is ... in and of itself an un natural shot. From that angle you don't even have to make the six, it can be over spun.

Secondly, IMO, the angle you are going into the 3 at is directly into the crotch of the balls which most likely will leave you low on the table at best.

I like to try to find a way to roll into the cluster and glance off it to a shot rather than force off it.
 
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I can't see a better way of breaking up the balls than you tried. I think the lesson here for me and you is to hit the 6-ball break up shot a little harder so you're not left behind the 3-ball. I'm sure someone will come up with something, but I haven't yet. Just bad luck and inexperience with pace on a 2-rail 2 ball little breakout shot. Thanks for the post.

Jeff
 
Here's another way, but it's not better. I think you went the right way. Just harder into the tied up balls or off the top rail before hitting them might have turned out better.
Jeff

CueTable Help

 
My thoughts

Here is what I think I would do.

Draw from the 4 to the 10. Even if you do not get perfect, (as I did in my diagram):D , you could still have a shot to go to the foot rail and back up table into the 3/8. You would still have either a shot on the 6 or the 9 up table. JMO

CueTable Help

 
I thought about your shot, Klockdoc, but the cueball was close to the rail, so the shot became difficult. Still makeable, but at 141-142 for 100 $ I didn't want to ruin my chances by starting with a difficult shot and miss it.

I could have got the same position for the 10-ball by shooting the 11 first, but then my insurance ball would be lost on my first shot.

It is a tricky layout, especially since the match is so close to the finish line, and a miss is almost guaranteed a loss of the match.
 
Another possible play is 4 (stop) and the 7 in the side to get a better angle on the 6. My only thought on this sequence is breaking the 3/8 but in such a way as to contact the 8 first. When playing the 7 in the side, I would seek to leave an angle on the 6 such that I could contact the 8 while the 6 goes.

_Rick
 
rikdee said:
Another possible play is 4 (stop) and the 7 in the side to get a better angle on the 6. My only thought on this sequence is breaking the 3/8 but in such a way as to contact the 8 first. When playing the 7 in the side, I would seek to leave an angle on the 6 such that I could contact the 8 while the 6 goes.

_Rick
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Yeah, that could work, especially if you bump the 7 toward the side pocket to give yourself more room to get the angle on the 6.

Here's an option that seems a little reckless, but has very little chance of scratching. Even if you don't hit the 8 or 3, hitting the 5 or 9 will mix up the balls to maybe give you a better chance of getting back to the 8/3 cluster. I'm thinking of high ball with a firm stroke to avoid the upper right corner scratch.
Jeff

CueTable Help

 
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Well, I think punching balls around and jacking up drawing balls around and moving the cue ball great distances is fine for 9 ball, but it is a recipe for disaster in straight pool. Attempting to run rack after rack and using patterns that do too many unnatural things will certainly catch up to you in straight pool.

As I said in my other post, I think your first shot was fine. You rolled the 4 in. Shooting the 9 up table next to get on the 2 in the lower left corner is practically a stop shot. I wouldn't think this too hard a shot for a player wagering 100 bucks on a game. I like the opportunity to get that ball off the rail anyway.

Same deal with going from your first shot directly to the 2 in the side instead of the 9, its another stop shot with an angle that will drift the cue ball down for the 6 in the other corner. Then, simply roll into the right side of the 3 ball as you come to the center of the table. Nothing fancy is the way to go. It's one thing to draw out a pattern and another to execute it. JMO.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
... What should I do instead? ...
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The problem I see with breaking up the balls on the rail is that you might create another problem. My approach would be to play the 4 as softly as possible, and then shoot the 6 to play position on the 9 to the corner. Then with the cue ball near where the 9 was, play the 2 and come one or two rails to break the 3-8. With the 7 open near the spot, you should have a shot at it if you are somehow horribly hooked on the 11 after the break. I think the 2 is the most natural ball to break the 3-8 with although the 10 will do if you get above it to go one rail near where the 6 is or get the right angle to follow straight into them. If you do follow straight into them, you don't want the 9 on the rail.
 
3andstop said:
As I said in my other post, I think your first shot was fine. You rolled the 4 in. Shooting the 9 up table next to get on the 2 in the lower left corner is practically a stop shot.
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I like this.
Same deal with going from your first shot directly to the 2 in the side instead of the 9, its another stop shot with an angle that will drift the cue ball down for the 6 in the other corner. Then, simply roll into the right side of the 3 ball as you come to the center of the table.
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This looks good if the 2-ball in the side goes. It doesn't look like it goes past the 7. Unless you're talking about the upper side which would be hard to do because the cueball would end up so close to the 2.


Bob Jewett said:
The problem I see with breaking up the balls on the rail is that you might create another problem. My approach would be to play the 4 as softly as possible, and then shoot the 6 to play position on the 9 to the corner. Then with the cue ball near where the 9 was, play the 2 and come one or two rails to break the 3-8. With the 7 open near the spot, you should have a shot at it if you are somehow horribly hooked on the 11 after the break. I think the 2 is the most natural ball to break the 3-8 with although the 10 will do if you get above it to go one rail near where the 6 is or get the right angle to follow straight into them. If you do follow straight into them, you don't want the 9 on the rail.
Click to expand...

I like that a lot. And if you decide to come one-rail off of the foot rail on the 2-ball shot and you miss hitting the 3-8, you'll probably hit the 5 and have it either in the top side or top right corner, or even as another ball to help break the 3-8.

Here's something that may not have actually been available and has a double kiss/scratch risk, but is quite direct:

CueTable Help

 
Thanks for the replies.

When looking at the table over and over again, and reading your replies I think the correct pattern here would be to go for the 9 after making the 4-ball, and break up the cluster using the 2-ball. Then I would still have the 6-ball and the 11-ball as insuranceballs.

However, if I had just shot the 6-ball with a little more power on the route I chose, I would be perfect after that shot too...
 
i have zero business giving anyone 14.1 advice as I'm the weakest player in the world playing this game compaired to how I play rotation games 6,9,10 ball and 8ball. The reason for my post is to complement you on your heart, you lost-didnt get pissed walked away learning something and have the heart to jump back playing this guy again wit hthe worst of it (for now) that trait I admire in a pool player no matter how strong they play, there are alot of world beaters that dont think like you. Good job buddy and stick with it.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
I thought about your shot, Klockdoc, but the cueball was close to the rail, so the shot became difficult. Still makeable, but at 141-142 for 100 $ I didn't want to ruin my chances by starting with a difficult shot and miss it.

I could have got the same position for the 10-ball by shooting the 11 first, but then my insurance ball would be lost on my first shot.

It is a tricky layout, especially since the match is so close to the finish line, and a miss is almost guaranteed a loss of the match.
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I do not like shooting the 11 first either. You need that for an insurance ball. But first let me explain my decision for going this route;

1) shooting the 4 in the corner gives you a FULL pocket to shoot the ball into. Coming back on the 10 gives you a wide range of position area to either come into the 3/8 or come off the foot rail into the 3/8.

2) shooting the 4 softly and then shooting the 6 next only gives the 6 one-half a pocket and therefore makes it harder to to shoot the 6 firm enough to come into the 3/8 and break it up.

3) coming in behind the 3/8 to break up the cluster is definitely asking for trouble with the possibility of getting hooked behind a ball. (which, by the way, happened)

4) shooting the 2 into the pocket hard enough to break up the 3/8 as suggested in another post, is, IMO, no different than my 10 ball shot being a hard shot as you posted originally. You still have to shoot it hard enough to break up the balls, but, unless you get the perfect angle, you will be coming into the 3/8 whereas you either double-kiss and the balls do not go anywhere, (also your insurance 9 ball is gone in this pattern), or,you have to come into the foot rail like on the 6 shot and you are back into a possible hook situation.

Course, this is JMO and when present at the table and not having the ability to think over all possibilities, I may have taken another approach. The good thing about discussing this, is that you are exposed to all different types of solutions and that makes your decision making process easier.
 
klockdoc said:
I do not like shooting the 11 first either. You need that for an insurance ball. But first let me explain my decision for going this route;

1) shooting the 4 in the corner gives you a FULL pocket to shoot the ball into. Coming back on the 10 gives you a wide range of position area to either come into the 3/8 or come off the foot rail into the 3/8.

2) shooting the 4 softly and then shooting the 6 next only gives the 6 one-half a pocket and therefore makes it harder to to shoot the 6 firm enough to come into the 3/8 and break it up.

3) coming in behind the 3/8 to break up the cluster is definitely asking for trouble with the possibility of getting hooked behind a ball. (which, by the way, happened)

4) shooting the 2 into the pocket hard enough to break up the 3/8 as suggested in another post, is, IMO, no different than my 10 ball shot being a hard shot as you posted originally. You still have to shoot it hard enough to break up the balls, but, unless you get the perfect angle, you will be coming into the 3/8 whereas you either double-kiss and the balls do not go anywhere, (also your insurance 9 ball is gone in this pattern), or,you have to come into the foot rail like on the 6 shot and you are back into a possible hook situation.

Course, this is JMO and when present at the table and not having the ability to think over all possibilities, I may have taken another approach. The good thing about discussing this, is that you are exposed to all different types of solutions and that makes your decision making process easier.
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klockdoc, looking at your way a second time makes me think this is also a good way of doing it. Even if you don't get perfect on the 10 off of the 4, you have the 11 to try again for the angle. Even if you don't get it perfect again, and get too steep on the 10, you can probably either drift softly between the 2 and 7 or bump one of them to leave yourself a couple more opportunities at the break out.

Jeff
 
I`m a pretty lousy 14.1 player but here goes.
Shot the 4 first with a bit of draw, then 11 and the CB would travel on the left side of the table.If you are short you have the 10 in the right middle, if not you have the 2 or 7 in the right bottom.With one of this two balls i would try to nudge the 8 or three.6 or the 9 is the solution if you dont end on 8 or 3.What do you think?
 
I`m a pretty lousy 14.1 player but here goes.
Shot the 4 first with a bit of draw, then 11 ...
Click to expand...
My main objection to this is that you have four balls stuck on the side rail. If things to badly there, you may need the 11 to recover. This fits under Larry Schwartz's idea of "don't kill your soldiers," meaning that some of the balls are there to help you and you shouldn't get rid of them right away.
 
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