Analyze This (8)
- Thread starter CueAndMe
- Start date
1) You have problems with that 11 ball. Better get to it as soon as possible.
2) You have 2 very workable break shots (13 & 7)
3) I'm leaning towards using the 13 because you have a lot f work to do on the other side of the table.
4) Taking all of that into consideration, my sequence from here would be 3. 11, 7, 9...
Shot 1 - 3 in the corner - I would draw either from the 3 to the rail (in between the 11 and the 7 - I might even elect to bump into the 11 (if possible) - from the diagram I am unable to really see if I have that or not - primary objective is to get that 11 ball out of there next. In the diagram I just get in between the 2 balls.
Shot 2 - 11 in the corner, stay for the 3
Shot 3 - 3 in the corner, follow slight off the rail for an angle on the 9
Shot 4 - 9 in the corner, angle off the rail - trying to get slightly straight on the 13 - enough to be able to follow into the top of the stack
Shot 5 - Break shot - 13 corner, skip off the top two balls in the stack.
Scroll through shots 1-5
All of this looks much easier on paper.
2) You have 2 very workable break shots (13 & 7)
3) I'm leaning towards using the 13 because you have a lot f work to do on the other side of the table.
4) Taking all of that into consideration, my sequence from here would be 3. 11, 7, 9...
Shot 1 - 3 in the corner - I would draw either from the 3 to the rail (in between the 11 and the 7 - I might even elect to bump into the 11 (if possible) - from the diagram I am unable to really see if I have that or not - primary objective is to get that 11 ball out of there next. In the diagram I just get in between the 2 balls.
Shot 2 - 11 in the corner, stay for the 3
Shot 3 - 3 in the corner, follow slight off the rail for an angle on the 9
Shot 4 - 9 in the corner, angle off the rail - trying to get slightly straight on the 13 - enough to be able to follow into the top of the stack
Shot 5 - Break shot - 13 corner, skip off the top two balls in the stack.
Scroll through shots 1-5
All of this looks much easier on paper.
The way the Wei table appears on my screen, this path is totally impossible. On my screen, the 3 ball is a cut to the left from the player's perspective, and you show the cue ball also going to the left from the player's perspective. What does the cut angle on the 3 look like on your screen, David?Blackjack said:
I would play the 9 and leave the cue ball about where the nine is after bouncing off the foot rail. Then play the 3 and try to move the 11. Ideally, the 11 ends by the side pocket for a break shot. If not, I'd play the 11 and 7 in whichever order got me onto the 13 best.bluepepper said:
Bob Jewett said:
I could move the cue ball in the way that I diagrammed it. If you put the 3 ball in the top side of the pocket, instead of how I put in the center (I did that diagram in about 5 seconds during lunch) then you will get the cue ball to move in that direction, and I don;t believe that it is impossible. The 2 dimensional overhead view opens the door to these arguments every single time.
Either way, I'd get on the 11 after shooting the 3 - even if I have to follow the cue ball off the top rail. I WOULD NEVER SHOOT THE 9 FIRST. If I shoot the 9, then the 3, and I DON'T move the 11, then I inherit two shots on the rail - one of which needs to be my set up ball, and the other that is my key ball. I'd leave that 9 right where she sits and use it to get on the 13.
The cue ball and 3 ball are lined up to the pocket but to the wrong side of the pocket to move the cue ball straight towards the 11, at least the way the shot appears on my screen. If you draw a line along the right edges of the cue ball and three ball, as seen by the shooter, that line goes to the right side of the pocket.Blackjack said:
bluepepper said:
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with y'all and suggest the 13-7-9-11-3.
There are many reasons I like this pattern the most. There is only one even marginally tough shot, the 13 to the 7. And it's not really that tough, because you can land almost anywhere on the 7 and find your way to the 9. And no, the 9 to the 11 might not be 100% natural, but it's not terribly awkward either. Because your positional zone for the 3 as the breakshot is GIGANTIC, you don't have to be perfect on the 11 at all.
Another major reason I like it is because it allows me to shoot the 11 in the same corner as the 7. I would never, ever, ever shoot a ball on the rail up past the side pocket unless I absolutely had to - and in this case, I don't think I have to. [My disclaimer on that is that I happen to be very bad at that shot - if anyone feels comfortable with that shot, then go ahead and play any of the other patterns suggested here - they'll be better than this solution, which seeks to avoid it.]
Finally, the 13 isn't even an ideal break shot. There are ways to get on the 13 and not even be able to hit the rack. As someone suggested, getting from the 9 to the 13 in the side is a pretty good option, but I almost see no way to do this without playing the 11 up in the corner past the side.
Sure, the 3 as the break ball has its own risks, but those risks are in the yield. In my opinion, you should always opt for risks in the yield over risks in getting on the break shot. In other words, I know I'm going to break the rack with the 3, and I know I'm probably going to get on it to begin with. Given the other options I see with this layout, those are the best odds I feel I can get.
- Steve
It's interesting that a 5 ball layout can be seen so differently.
Right after posting the layout, I created the following run, but since I've been posting so much I figured I would let you guys go first. After seeing yours I really don't like it that much especially after the point Steve made about the 11-ball up table shot. It's a scary shot.
I do like Bob's idea of making an attempt at bumping the 11 up towards the side. You have the 7 to fall back on no matter what happens. You could even play the 11-7 combo if you overshoot the 11 off of the 3.
But after the points he made, I like the way Steve would do it. The 3 is indeed a very easy shot to fall on for the break.
Jeff
Here's mine: 9,3,11,13,7
Right after posting the layout, I created the following run, but since I've been posting so much I figured I would let you guys go first. After seeing yours I really don't like it that much especially after the point Steve made about the 11-ball up table shot. It's a scary shot.
I do like Bob's idea of making an attempt at bumping the 11 up towards the side. You have the 7 to fall back on no matter what happens. You could even play the 11-7 combo if you overshoot the 11 off of the 3.
But after the points he made, I like the way Steve would do it. The 3 is indeed a very easy shot to fall on for the break.
Jeff
Here's mine: 9,3,11,13,7
Thread title question
What do you all think the best thread title would be for these layouts that we run. I'm thinking the "analyze this" title is too technical. How about something like "run this","run these", "run out", or "play this." Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jeff
What do you all think the best thread title would be for these layouts that we run. I'm thinking the "analyze this" title is too technical. How about something like "run this","run these", "run out", or "play this." Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jeff
Is this even close? (can anyone tell me what the problems are with this run-out, I have zero 14.1 knowledge)
AZE, my knowledge of 14.1 is not as high as I'm willing to be, and I didn't analyze the layout given because of lack of time and ability to do that. But I can point some in regard with your attempt.AZE said:
First, the break ball here is not 13 but 7. Seems to me it is the only one suitable without additional ball movement. 13 is too high above the rack, and breaking the rack from it is way too hard. Good follow required, and the position zone to have proper angle is too shallow.
So here comes second - it is almost impossible to stay in that shallow zone playing shape across it, i.e. from 11. Even if 13 was perfect break ball, 11 is not the one to be chosen as a key ball. It should better be 3 or 9.
Hope this helps a little AZE, keep on your trial and error, straight pool is very helpful for a player's imagination and creativity.
If I didn't get the stun I expected off the 3, or if I just didn't read the table right, or whatever... and I didn't get on the 11 the way I expected...
I'd use inside english off the 9 to get on the 11. Then inside again to keep the cue away from the 13, and also keep it a uptable for the 7.
I'd use inside english off the 9 to get on the 11. Then inside again to keep the cue away from the 13, and also keep it a uptable for the 7.
bluepepper said:
How about something like "Strategy Discussion 1,2,3 etc." It think it better describes what the thread is really about. Not to criticize, but "analyze this" sounds like a snarky comeback you'd hear in any given bar in NJ on a weekend. "Hey buddy, ANALYZE 'DIS!" But that's just me.
dwhite
theres two pages and thats the way id try and go about it or possibly the first shot would be to try bumping the 11 off the rail from the 9ball and working it out from there.
Reaper, that's the alternative pattern to the one I suggested earlier. Either way you go about it, it allows the 11 to be pocketed in the obvious corner, and also allows you to fall on - in my opinion - the best break ball available.
- Steve
- Steve
Hey Bluepepper I really enjoy these "tests" thanks for putting them up.
I know this is for a complete run but the more I looked I thought it was best to play safe after the 3 BL
9 TL
3 BL roll up for a straight push on the 7 with a little follow
I have always had good luck with this safe. If I had to run out I would do this:
9 TL
7 BL
13 TL
11 BL
3 BL with a left short rail breakout.
Comments please
I know this is for a complete run but the more I looked I thought it was best to play safe after the 3 BL
9 TL
3 BL roll up for a straight push on the 7 with a little follow
I have always had good luck with this safe. If I had to run out I would do this:
9 TL
7 BL
13 TL
11 BL
3 BL with a left short rail breakout.
Comments please