You just attempted to justify the cost by comparing it to another product that many also feel costs far too much.
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Annoucing the True Rack
- Thread starter elvicash
- Start date
You just attempted to justify the cost by comparing it to another product that many also feel costs far too much.
Bro-man,
...and you just attempted to justify your opinion that $130 is expensive. Pool players are by nature CHEAPSKATES! One hundred and thirty bucks is a tiny drop in the bucket of what it costs to become an accomplished player. The only price point philosophy that most pool players will agree on is FREE IS GOOD, PROFIT IS BAD. If it is too expensive for you, don't buy it.
P.S. - I already have one, it is FAR easier to carry than the goofy Magic Rack template (which doesn't fit in my case); doesn't get in the way after the break like the goofy template; and is FAR SUPERIOR when used as a weapon in a scuffle after the game (hitting someone with the goofy plastic template inflicts minimal to no damage). I also enjoy the vanity rush of having my name and AZB handle etched on the rack...very cool (though I guess I could take a Sharpie and "engrave" my name on the goofy plastic template...not as cool...).
P.P.S. - if your balls are old, out of round, or slightly smaller than regulation from wear; the goofy plastic template will guarantee you a bad, slug rack every time. Just a thought.
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Reloaded 11 times in a CNC setup,,,,,,really?
I have not tried the rack, the quality looks good, though I like the idea of wood on my Bicentenials much better than aluminum.
11 times? You seriously need a new machinist.
Good luck with the product though.
People would say the same when comparing a Schon to a Player cue or a Player cue to a Gina cue there is more quality in one than the other better materials, more care taken in the manufacture better over all, thus more cost. Other people would say it is a pool cue what is the difference all they do is move the tip to the ball and they all do that.
Also in case you do not know brophog most tables in pool rooms and bars come with a rack so there is no reason to spend anything on a rack, albeit some/many of those racks are pretty crappy which is why i came up with the idea for the True Rack. If you do not want to rack the balls better there is no reason to spend any of your money. Lots of people do want to rack better and many of them do not play at home thus the need for a portable high quality option in my opinion.
If you had a chance to take my rack to a machinist to see if you could copy it and finish it to the same standard for a $120 including mailing it anywhere in the US you would find you would not be able to if you only wanted to make one rack. If you are a machinist you could knock it off in a weekend however the machinist that have seen this though it would be cheaper to buy one than to try to copy it.
If you have an interest in an upgrade to the rack provided when you play pool please consider the True Rack it is high quality, racks the balls well and is built to last a lifetime. Also it feels good in your hands.
Give me a break. I assumed that the majority of people on here would know better than to judge someone by their post count. Don't be so childish.
I learn something new every day.
The only thing I expressed is the flaw in the argument. The argument is that since some product exists on the market at price point A that it justifies another product being at said price point by mere existence.
The argument assumes that existence equals acceptance. If the public opinion is that a price point is too expensive, it doesn't matter if there are one or one dozen at that price point, it will be deemed too expensive and demand will therefore be affected. The argument expressed that since Delta 13 has a rack at this price point that this justifies another is not logical. Those kinds of arguments have no place in a proper business model, and certainly no place in relations with customers.
Logic aside, the product has a severe marketing problem, and judging by this thread, an equally severe public relations problem. I wish the OP the best of luck with his endeavor, and hope he uses this thread as a means of re-evaluating these things.
I don't believe the argument is "since some product exists at a price point that it justifies another" but that the seller isn't just making up some price with a huge profit margin. He is using the Delta Elite to explain that it is more expensive to make a rack of similar materials and method. He furthers this by explaining that the regular Delta rack is less than half the price of the Elite, despite the fact that they are similar products.
Even if the public opinion is that the rack is too expensive that is not going to lower the seller's cost. The seller is attempting to sell a product based on originality not cost and his target market will be those who value that originality.
Consumer opinion in products is a tricky thing. Most of my friends and family think it is crazy to spend $600 on a pool cue yet people on this forum readily do so. Why? Well, most of the cues that sell for that much have a proven record and are supported by other players recommendations. Here, we have a group of people who have never seen or touched the product bashing it for its price. That probably means these people are either making snap judgments or are not the seller's target market.
I think he gets the point that many of you think it's too expensive and for him to include you in his target market, he would have to reduce his price.
Even if the public opinion is that the rack is too expensive that is not going to lower the seller's cost. The seller is attempting to sell a product based on originality not cost and his target market will be those who value that originality.
Consumer opinion in products is a tricky thing. Most of my friends and family think it is crazy to spend $600 on a pool cue yet people on this forum readily do so. Why? Well, most of the cues that sell for that much have a proven record and are supported by other players recommendations. Here, we have a group of people who have never seen or touched the product bashing it for its price. That probably means these people are either making snap judgments or are not the seller's target market.
I think he gets the point that many of you think it's too expensive and for him to include you in his target market, he would have to reduce his price.
I think you've summed it up nicely and accurately.
For those that don't know elvicash; his I.Q. is probably just about equal to the sum of the other posters on this thread (serious Purdue computer science geek...like my son....). I'm doubtful he hasn't considered all of these issues in detail.
Perhaps we should just thank him for making such a nice luxury product for those of us that want to spare NO expense in having the nicest "pool toys" possible. My thanks are extended.
This quote shows the Delta 13 is clearly being used as an example to justify a similar product at this price point. I earnestly caution anyone from making that argument.
That's not to say that it isn't also being used as an example that quality costs money. The key to selling the rack, though, is finding the crossover point where the business model works, and the feedback in this thread suggests much more analysis is necessary. There is a consistent opinion in this thread that this price point is simply too high, even amongst people who would otherwise purchase this product.
Delta 13 could be used as an example of craftsmanship in this case, but it is very difficult to use it as an example in terms of price point validation.
It may put the seller completely out of business. If you can't change that opinion, in some fashion, then sales will be very difficult, and is some cases, impossible. If the business model is sound per unit as a luxury item then the business will hold provided the demand remains adequate with respect to the expenses, and provided the item is sold and marketed properly as a luxury item.
That's where the rubber hits the road. The biggest issue I see in this thread is that cost does not equal final price. Cues are an example of that. The value of the cue, and by extension the price the consumer will pay, is not a direct function of the cost to make it. It's not a direct function of their personal opinion of the markup. Cues rise and fall in price all of the time with no change in craftsmanship, for a lot of factors both direct and indirect. Marketing, promotion, public relations, customer service, collectible value......etcetera........these are all factors in the price and value of that item and they change over time. These are the kinds of issues that make a direct comparison to a Delta 13's price point problematic.
I see very few that could be considered 'bashing' in this thread, and a lot who are simply providing feedback and advice to help the seller. This thread is an opportunity to collect feedback and sell both the product and customer service of that product.
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Chris Mann Jr
Registered
It looks and sounds like a great product. I will be buying one soon.
As far as the pricing debate here, In my opinion I think that the machinest is the one making the largest profit. If I were you I would definantly check around. On the other hand this is probally the first batch so you might not have gotten a huge discount like you could have if you had more made.
I think for a quality rack that could easily last a lifetime and is portable on top of that is surely worth $130. In my honeest opinion.
So in other words, don't let the people here bother you. If you are doing well at this price point then keep it up. If not, try to find ways to get the cost down. Or create a lower priced model with a basic design for the people who refuse to pay for quality.
As far as the pricing debate here, In my opinion I think that the machinest is the one making the largest profit. If I were you I would definantly check around. On the other hand this is probally the first batch so you might not have gotten a huge discount like you could have if you had more made.
I think for a quality rack that could easily last a lifetime and is portable on top of that is surely worth $130. In my honeest opinion.
So in other words, don't let the people here bother you. If you are doing well at this price point then keep it up. If not, try to find ways to get the cost down. Or create a lower priced model with a basic design for the people who refuse to pay for quality.
You are right, let's get real for a second.
You said you're sure, I asked how you are sure, where you tried it out at and what your thoughts from trying it out are.
If you haven't tried it out, then don't say I'm sure about something and knock a guy when you haven't invested the time in trying it.
You said you're sure, I asked how you are sure, where you tried it out at and what your thoughts from trying it out are.
If you haven't tried it out, then don't say I'm sure about something and knock a guy when you haven't invested the time in trying it.
Breaking Field
I will be checking out the True Rack at the BCA tournament. It sounds like a very useful tool.
How many times have you or your opponent whined about having a difficult time racking? How valuable is your time?
One thing that some people may not be aware of and that is that some people are simply better at racking than others. Some people can rack the balls tighter than others. If the True Rack can rack the balls tighter and more easily than traditional one piece racks, it will mean that lesser-rackers will be able to even the breaking/racking field and as we all know, the break is the most important shot of the game.
I have a Delta rack but it is too bulky to carry around with me.
I can see this rack showing up at the BEST WEEKEND BAR TABLE TOURNAMENT IN AMERICA real soon.
JoeyA
I will be checking out the True Rack at the BCA tournament. It sounds like a very useful tool.
How many times have you or your opponent whined about having a difficult time racking? How valuable is your time?
One thing that some people may not be aware of and that is that some people are simply better at racking than others. Some people can rack the balls tighter than others. If the True Rack can rack the balls tighter and more easily than traditional one piece racks, it will mean that lesser-rackers will be able to even the breaking/racking field and as we all know, the break is the most important shot of the game.
I have a Delta rack but it is too bulky to carry around with me.
I can see this rack showing up at the BEST WEEKEND BAR TABLE TOURNAMENT IN AMERICA real soon.
JoeyA
More vanity for ya huh Willie.
I like how you were able to compliment someone, and then bring it back to Willie by letting us know that it also applies to your family. Thank you.
I like how you were able to compliment someone, and then bring it back to Willie by letting us know that it also applies to your family. Thank you.
U12,
Yes, in my quest to become a "real" pool player, I have divined that the best attitude to display is, "ITS ALL ABOUT ME!!!" That way people can identify me as a pool player.....now if I can only learn to make more than 2 balls in a row I'm golden.....
What is your basis for this? I only need one angle to define the shape and this device is perfectly suited to defining that angle.
And what worth is that? Companies spend millions gathering feedback in all its forms. All it takes in a thread like this is the willingness to accept the feedback you get.
Everyone, listen to this advice. I've never done coke, and i'm sure it's not good for me. So I might as well try it, or I can't knock it.
Lol.
