Announcers & Bad Roll/Break Comments

[DrCue'sProtege]

ok, posters, again everybody knows i complain alot about getting bad rolls and not getting any breaks. seems like the general concensus is that your responsible for the bad rolls/breaks, and there is a reason why the cue ball or object ball went where it did - that being that YOU HIT IT THERE!!!

so, i've been noticing on some of my pool tapes that the announcers seem to talk about how some player got a bad roll or break. the announcers vary from ESPN (male & female), Accu-Stats, World Championships, and the Mosconi Cup.

for example last night i was watching an Accu-Stats tape where Efren had made a shot and got out of position just very, very little. the announcer said something about it being a "Bad Break" for Efren. how can it be a bad break? he might be Efren Reyes, but Efren Reyes hit the ball there in the first place!

dont know what to think of this "Bad Roll/Break" concept now. i guess its just one of those human nature sympathy type of things, that when you get out of position you like to offer up a reason why it didnt turn out good.

DCP

 

[Rackin_Zack]

ok, posters, again everybody knows i complain alot about getting bad rolls and not getting any breaks. seems like the general concensus is that your responsible for the bad rolls/breaks, and there is a reason why the cue ball or object ball went where it did - that being that YOU HIT IT THERE!!!

so, i've been noticing on some of my pool tapes that the announcers seem to talk about how some player got a bad roll or break. the announcers vary from ESPN (male & female), Accu-Stats, World Championships, and the Mosconi Cup.

for example last night i was watching an Accu-Stats tape where Efren had made a shot and got out of position just very, very little. the announcer said something about it being a "Bad Break" for Efren. how can it be a bad break? he might be Efren Reyes, but Efren Reyes hit the ball there in the first place!

dont know what to think of this "Bad Roll/Break" concept now. i guess its just one of those human nature sympathy type of things, that when you get out of position you like to offer up a reason why it didnt turn out good.

DCP

I'd be willing to bet that if you asked Efren if it was a bad roll/break he'd tell you no, he just mis-hit it.

 

[Jerry Forsyth]

The term 'bad roll' can carry several meanings. Usually it is just uttered in sympathy for a player who was in a promising situation and hit the cue ball 1/2 roll too far or too short to get the needed shape.

But sometimes the tournament tables are set up on stages or on platforms that are not as stable as one would desire. I have seen tournament tables roll off more than a diamond from head rail to foot rail on a slow roll shot. Just recently a pro (Charlie Williams I think) scratched on a lag shot because the table rolled off so that it sent his ball straight into the corner.

Another bad roll is when your opponent misses his shot and the cue ball rolls up into a snooker situation for the incoming player. This gives rise to a wish that the incoming player could have the option of giving the table back to his foe when a shot is missed.

So, the term is multi-tasked and we probably use it too much.

-Jerry

 

[hustlefinger]

A bad break would be if for some reason you flung a cueball against the wall and it fell between the studs.

A bad roll would be if you flung that same CB and it traveled through the interior and exterior wall, hit the driveway and bounced down the street into the gutter and plopped into the sewer. That’s a bad roll, some might even say shity roll.

j/k with you

dont know what to think of this "Bad Roll/Break" concept now. i guess its just one of those human nature sympathy type of things, that when you get out of position you like to offer up a reason why it didnt turn out good.
DCP

I believe this is the most likely explanation.

Rick

 

[JAM]

...dont know what to think of this "Bad Roll/Break" concept now. I guess it's just one of those human nature sympathy type of things, that when you get out of position you like to offer up a reason why it didnt turn out good.

Good topic for a book: "101 Excuses for a Bad Roll/Break."

The Top 10 would be, in no particular order: 1, ball skidded; 2, table rolled off; 3, rails bank short; 4, tables are wet; 5, cheap cloth; 6, dead rail; 7, my opponent sharked me; 8, my tip is mushroomed; 9, phoney equipment; and 10, the old miscue!

JAM

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Good topic for a book: "101 Excuses for a Bad Roll/Break."

The Top 10 would be, in no particular order: 1, ball skidded; 2, table rolled off; 3, rails bank short; 4, tables are wet; 5, cheap cloth; 6, dead rail; 7, my opponent sharked me; 8, my tip is mushroomed; 9, phoney equipment; and 10, the old miscue!

JAM

And of course, the ball skidding is the only one where you really got unlucky as both players have to deal with everything else, or it is easily corrected.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

ok, posters, again everybody knows i complain alot about getting bad rolls and not getting any breaks.

Yeah I've noticed and I am getting to the point, that I am tiring of it. That is why, I am going to give you the key that will unlock your potential.

for example last night i was watching an Accu-Stats tape where Efren had made a shot and got out of position just very, very little. the announcer said something about it being a "Bad Break" for Efren. how can it be a bad break? he might be Efren Reyes, but Efren Reyes hit the ball there in the first place!

OK, Reyes is far closer to perfect than most players, but he is not perfect. That perfect player never existed and never will. Where do you see the word "luck" in the phrase, "bad roll"? I don't see it in there. It's a bad roll because it was hit poorly, or the result of poor shot selection.
You have a condition, not unlike alcoholism, you are addicted to the notion of luck. Luck is your crutch, it comforts you in times of failure.
You can only be cured, after you get past the denial stage.
For alcohol you could take a 12 step program. For you, it is easier, I suggest a simple 4 step program.

1) Accept that luck is not involved.
2) Take ownership of EVERY shot.
3) Always have a pin-point plan for the outcome of EVERY shot.
4) When a shot does not go EXACTLY as planned, figure out what YOU did wrong and correct it.

If you think, I am being hard on you, get used to it. You need to be much harder on yourself, than this.

Tracy

 

[Rackin_Zack]

1) Accept that luck is not involved.
2) Take ownership of EVERY shot.
3) Always have a pin-point plan for the outcome of EVERY shot.
4) When a shot does not go EXACTLY as planned, figure out what YOU did wrong and correct it.

If you think, I am being hard on you, get used to it. You need to be much harder on yourself, than this.

Tracy

I think this is great advice. I don't blame my poor position on luck or anything, but hearing someone say that you should have a pin point position plan for every shot makes me realize how lazy I am with my position planning. I often times get lazy and just play for a fairly meaty section of the table instead of an exact spot. Thanks for the post Tracy.

P.S. I agree that his incessant posting about his bad luck has gotten annoying!

 

[vapoolplayer]

If you think, I am being hard on you, get used to it. You need to be much harder on yourself, than this.

Tracy

you're beating a D E A D H O R S E...........he doesn't listen.

VAP

 

[RSB-Refugee]

you're beating a D E A D H O R S E...........he doesn't listen.

You may be right, but it does give me an outlet for my frustration caused by constantly reading the whining.
I hope that, this time you are wrong, and he does take it to heart. I truly think, it would help him a great deal.
Tracy

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

i havent cried and whined about having a bad break, or a bad roll, or just being a Born Loser for awhile now. even said last week that i am going to just take VAPoolPlayer's advice, and Practice, Practice, and more Practice. which i am doing.

also said instead of breaking and having to put up with the "Difficult" spreads/rolls i am just going to roll the balls out on the table and take cue ball in hand and go from there when i want to practice some runouts.

my apologies for the constant dose of my mis-fortune, i'll try and do better. see i do listen, at times.

but the original intent of this post was to point out that even announcers at times say the best players in the world are subject to bad rolls/bad breaks. yet that player is the one that hit the ball there, the Lord didnt miracle it there for him.

regards,
DCP

 

[RSB-Refugee]

...i am going to just take VAPoolPlayer's advice, and Practice, Practice, and more Practice. which i am doing.

also said instead of breaking and having to put up with the "Difficult" spreads/rolls i am just going to roll the balls out on the table and take cue ball in hand and go from there when i want to practice some runouts.

I hope it works out, for you. You could practice your break shot also. It is very controllable also, if you are patient with it. I really did mean what i said, in a constructive way.

Good luck, (maybe not the best choice of words)
Tracy

 

[sjm]

Much as I believe in holding yourself accountable for most outcomes, the rolls are a living, breathing reality.

If one break the balls well, and sticks the rock, but some other ball subsequently kisses the cue into a pocket, should one take the view that they were fully accountable for the outcome? I really don't think so. If opponent misses the nine but somehow leaves you cushion hooked, is that a roll or not?

There are many ways to draw the line between a roll and an outcome for which the shooter must be viewed as having created. Where I draw it comes down to what is reasonably foreseeable. An outcome of a shot that is not reasonably foreseeable is best attributed to the luck factor.

The luck factor is a living, breathing reality. As an old friend of mine used to say "there are enough rolls in nine ball to fill a twenty four hour bakery."

 

[gromulan]

Here's a bad roll, you're in an NY hotel and you throw your cell phone and it hits someone in the head. Result, arrest for aggravated assault and a certain multi-million dollar lawsuit.

Poor Russell Crowe.

 

[Masayoshi]

bad and good rolls exist when you leave things to chance. if you are able to plan out everything to the millimeter and execute it perfectly every time then you have no luck. if you are less than perfect, luck probably plays a part in your game, although that part can be reduced with skill. with that said, statistically good and bad rolls should balance eachother out in the long run.

 

[LastTwo]

I used to think that there is no such thing as bad rolls or lucky rolls. After a few certain matches that were too aggrivating to describe, I believe firmly that sometimes people do get really lucky in pool. Sometimes everything goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes when you miss you always hook your opponent. Sometimes when you hook your opponent they slam at it as hard as they can and 4 or 5 balls click and clack and the 9 drops in the hole. That is luck.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

bad and good rolls exist when you leave things to chance. if you are able to plan out everything to the millimeter and execute it perfectly every time then you have no luck. if you are less than perfect, luck probably plays a part in your game, although that part can be reduced with skill. with that said, statistically good and bad rolls should balance eachother out in the long run.

Tap tap tap.
That is why I said, play every shot with pin point planning. If it does not go as planned, try to understand what you did wrong. It is the result of either a faulty plan or poor execution.
If your opponent misses and leaves you hooked, he may not have planned it, but it is the direct result of how he hit it. It does get frustrating, when they hook you in such a way, then puff their chest out, in a 'look how good I am' sort of way. You need to shrug it off, and not let it get into your head.

Tracy

 

[Masayoshi]

Tap tap tap.
That is why I said, play every shot with pin point planning. If it does not go as planned, try to understand what you did wrong. It is the result of either a faulty plan or poor execution.
If your opponent misses and leaves you hooked, he may not have planned it, but it is the direct result of how he hit it. It does get frustrating, when they hook you in such a way, then puff their chest out, in a 'look how good I am' sort of way. You need to shrug it off, and not let it get into your head.

Tracy

i usually dont let luck get to me, but if you are saying you plan and shoot perfectly and dont leave anything in your game to chance, i must say you are probably wrong about that. not only that, some things planned and executed well i would attribute to luck anyways. i would consider a 3 rail bank or masse a lucky shot even if i intend to make it. when i make shots that are less than 50/50 more than 50% of the time i consider it luck, not skill. but like i said before, luck balances out.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

...if you are saying you plan and shoot perfectly and dont leave anything in your game to chance, i must say you are probably wrong about that.

Whoa, I never said I shoot perfectly. My shots don't always go as planned, but without a plan, how would I know, if I was getting better, or not. There are plenty of failures, even when the shot still turns out OK. I am not perfect, but I constantly try to improve.

Tracy

 

[TheConArtist]

Good topic for a book: "101 Excuses for a Bad Roll/Break."

The Top 10 would be, in no particular order: 1, ball skidded; 2, table rolled off; 3, rails bank short; 4, tables are wet; 5, cheap cloth; 6, dead rail; 7, my opponent sharked me; 8, my tip is mushroomed; 9, phoney equipment; and 10, the old miscue!

I would love to read that book, another excuse i heard one time was from this old guy in the league, this table must unlevel. Or better yet he broke and nothing went in and he said jeezzzzz, every ball hit all six rails and nothing dropped. Cole 'TheConArtist'