Another 8-ball Layout: Where to go?

Jude Rosenstock said:
Okay, to clarify the point I was making, this is what would be "ideal" in my shot.

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I could also probably get away with this

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The diagram I posted before should not be viewed as precise but if we're going to play that way, this is it.
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I don't know on this one Jude? You are obviously going to slow roll this bank to get the 7 in that position...

I think even the Wei table has a little roll that needs to be taken into account on this shot.

One tiny bit of un-noticed chalk dust on that back corner table with the white gutter tracks going down the rail and game over when that 8-ball gets bumped into the pocket.
 
BRKNRUN said:
I don't know on this one Jude? You are obviously going to slow roll this bank to get the 7 in that position...

I think even the Wei table has a little roll that needs to be taken into account on this shot.

One tiny bit of un-noticed chalk dust on that back corner table with the white gutter tracks going down the rail and game over when that 8-ball gets bumped into the pocket.
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Yes well, my point is, you can't play a specific shot off a concept. The idea I proposed was to get the 7 on the 8. If we're going to talk specifics then I'm going to pretend I played a great shot! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The bottom line is, if you have two good players here, I'm not sure stripes is winning even with BIH. I threw the intentional foul out there to open up a new line of thinking since many of the other safeties were appearing to be a lukewarm.
 
Patrick Johnson said:

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pj
chgo
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Not a bad idea but any legal contact with the balls in the upper left corner and you're kinda screwed. Shooter can go one rail or two rails to get there. IF that 11-ball hangs center of the side pocket, you're in business.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Yes well, my point is, you can't play a specific shot off a concept. The idea I proposed was to get the 7 on the 8. If we're going to talk specifics then I'm going to pretend I played a great shot! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The bottom line is, if you have two good players here, I'm not sure stripes is winning even with BIH. I threw the intentional foul out there to open up a new line of thinking since many of the other safeties were appearing to be a lukewarm.
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The concept of tying up balls is a good one...It is even better if the balls you are tying up is a "second" cluster of balls...(especially when you are giving up ball in hand)

You can pretend all you want that you played a great shot... but in reality the concept of trying to tie up a ball to an 8-ball that is hanging in the pocket while also leaving you only two balls left tied up and giving up BIH (when you had BIH in the first place) has got to be part of your self proclaimed Donkey System...

Hell if we are going to "pretend"..why not just freeze the CB to the 13 use the 11 to pocket the 7, carom off the 7 toward the 3 ball, pocket the 3 ball and carom off the 3, off the end rail, off the bottom of the 2, hanging the 11 in the corner pocket and blocking the kick on the 1.

Call it the Freeze-Carome-Carome-Bank-Carom-Hang concept...AKA the FCCBCH...

IMO...they are both Donkey shots....(Trust me...I know them well)
 
BRKNRUN said:
The concept of tying up balls is a good one...It is even better if the balls you are tying up is a "second" cluster of balls...(especially when you are giving up ball in hand)

You can pretend all you want that you played a great shot... but in reality the concept of trying to tie up a ball to an 8-ball that is hanging in the pocket while also leaving you only two balls left tied up and giving up BIH (when you had BIH in the first place) has got to be part of your self proclaimed Donkey System...

Hell if we are going to "pretend"..why not just freeze the CB to the 13 use the 11 to pocket the 7, carom off the 7 toward the 3 ball, pocket the 3 ball and carom off the 3, off the end rail, off the bottom of the 2, hanging the 11 in the corner pocket and blocking the kick on the 1.

Call it the Freeze-Carome-Carome-Bank-Carom-Hang concept...AKA the FCCBCH...

IMO...they are both Donkey shots....(Trust me...I know them well)
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Wow, you just completely missed my point.

EDIT:

I mean, if you're playing a stop-shot safety, it's pretty easy to say what you would do from here but if I'm running a ball down a rail 3 feet, there's no telling how things are going to end up. I said when I posted, this was not precise and that the goal was to get as close to the 8-ball as possible. I figured this would leave room for interpretation, that's all. Immediately following are return safeties from my exact layout. Well, if there are going to be return safeties for that one, why not have return safeties for what I really want to do?

My point, more than anything, is that with BIH, this still may be a moment to be creative, open-minded and aggressive. That's all I'm trying to say. I know giving back BIH is not ideal. It almost never is. However, there are a lot of ways to lose this rack and no obvious way to win.

I really don't want to get into some flaming war. I just want to express my opinion.
 
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Jude Rosenstock said:
Honestly, your aggressiveness is not a terrible idea. If you can't come up with something really good defensively, you might have to consider it. Your chances of making the bank and position WITH BIH might only be 30-50% but that might be no better than your chances with most safeties.
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I think slow rolling the bank in to hold position carries those percentages you stated.I can play the bank without slowrolling the ball and I'm a 75 % chance or dropping the ball,the only problem is you give up positional play a bit.I'm a bank pool player and I know many banks is this area of the table.
 
ccshrimper said:
This is the shot I described. If the guy I'm playing is kicking two rails to get safe on me, I'm in much better shape than before.
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THIS IS A STRONG SHOT ALSO...AND 1 I OFTER OVER LOOK.
 
I'd bank the 11 toward the side, trying to go a little past the middle of the table and stick on the back of the 13. He can't even kick from there.
 
The more I look at the layout, the more I think the bank on the 11 is the best shot, but there ain't no way in heck I'm gonna stick on the bottom of the 13 unless I'm for sure trying NOT to make the 11.

However, the options that involve shooting the 11 out and toward the 7 ball ain't gonna be easy because there doesn't appear to be enough room to use bottom and you also run the risk of fouling with a double-hit because everything is so close.


blackeee said:
I'd bank the 11 toward the side, trying to go a little past the middle of the table and stick on the back of the 13. He can't even kick from there.
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I am almost afraid to go for the hook. If the opponent makes a good hit, I am not sure there is a reply. How about softly banking the thirteen off the short rail and blocking the six?
 
The 7 is too easy to make unless they're down near the 8. With the 6 and 7 where they are, the hook is going to be tough unless you rely on the 11 to block the shot on the 6. If you successfully do that, any kick is going to be difficult give that they'd be bridging over the 13 and will be RIGHT up on the rail that they're using for the kick.


Omar said:
I am almost afraid to go for the hook. If the opponent makes a good hit, I am not sure there is a reply. How about softly banking the thirteen off the short rail and blocking the six?
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Rumplestiltskin said:
The 7 is too easy to make unless they're down near the 8. With the 6 and 7 where they are, the hook is going to be tough unless you rely on the 11 to block the shot on the 6. If you successfully do that, any kick is going to be difficult give that they'd be bridging over the 13 and will be RIGHT up on the rail that they're using for the kick.
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Understood, but the 6 and 7 aren't the only balls to kick at. The 1 and 2 are very close to rails and probably not that hard to hit. Multiple rail kicks can be hard to judge when the cue ball is close to the first rail, but there is a fair margin of error here. Any hit will do as it's hard to play another good safety from down table and you will probably be too thin on the 11 to shape the second ball.

The other suggestions have all been good. I am throwing a little different approach out there. I have two balls with no offensive possibilities. He has lots and there are four pockets blocked. I want to take away the easy run out and temp him to shoot.

Just in case it wasn't clear what my idea was, here is a picture. Sorry for the crappy drawing...

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Omar said:
Understood, but the 6 and 7 aren't the only balls to kick at. The 1 and 2 are very close to rails and probably not that hard to hit. Multiple rail kicks can be hard to judge when the cue ball is close to the first rail, but there is a fair margin of error here. Any hit will do as it's hard to play another good safety from down table and you will probably be too thin on the 11 to shape the second ball.

The other suggestions have all been good. I am throwing a little different approach out there. I have two balls with no offensive possibilities. He has lots and there are four pockets blocked. I want to take away the easy run out and temp him to shoot.

Just in case it wasn't clear what my idea was, here is a picture. Sorry for the crappy drawing...

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Your contact point is overlapping the 11-ball. Unfortunately, your shot isn't available.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Your contact point is overlapping the 11-ball. Unfortunately, your shot isn't available.
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Certainly the shot as I drew it doesn't work. Not only did I plow the cue ball into the 11, I didn't get the rebound angle right either. First time I tried to use Cuetable. Or did you mean that the 11 and 13 you diagrammed are overlapping too much to try the shot at all?

Using ball in hand, I didn't have any trouble lagging the 13 between the 6 and the pocket on the table last night. I didn't have the diagram with me, but I did experiment with the 11 and 13 in several different positions. Getting the speed right on the hook so that I didn't leave an easy hit on the 6 or the 7 was a different story. ;)
 
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