More of an alignment method using a pivot than an aiming system, it isn't genius and probably won't be very useful to most folks, but I figured I'd share.
1)Sighting for a straight in shot from behind the cueball, place tip of cue on table midway between cue ball and object ball.
2)Then locate contact point on object ball.
3)Keeping tip in same spot on table move to the right or left until the cue is pointing directly at the contact point.
4)From there, roll the cue, staying parallel to that line, until the center of the cue is hovering directly above the center of the cueball. That's your aim line. Pick a spot along this line to aim at in order to pocket the shot.
I just realized that to make the method better, use either the left or right edge of the cue instead of the center. It will not only sharpen the lines, but also allow you to see when you're over the exact center of the cueball when you roll back.
I local shortstop taught me a similar method for very difficult, long-distance cut shots (e.g. cueball in the jaws of a pocket, object ball on the spot). It's quite effective with minimal practice, and with a decent amount of practice you'll be scaring your opponents in no time!
That is similar to the Hal Houle Shis-ke-Bob method
Here is another method that I use for aiming when I can't just visually see it. I use this in combination with the HH 3-line aiming.
What I like most about this method is that it allows me to always aim through the center CB to a "Aim Point"
In your example it is a fairly severe cut, so I would use a slightly different method to align but for every shot this method will work to get you a aim point for center CB.
My only problem with you method is determining the contact point...(how far do I pivot)...
Here is the method I use
Screen 1 - Stand directly behind the OB and determin your contact point (assuming no english, throw, cling etc) Place your tip where the center of the "Gost Ball" would be...A visual aid that helps me know when the tip is dead center of the CB is the reflection of the tip on the OB..As you move closer and farther away from the OB the reflection will move higher and lower...when the tip reflection is in the center of the OB that is where the center of the Ghost Ball would be. An additional visual aid that helps you know where half way up the OB ball is, is the brightness of the ball....On the lower half of the OB the light will be "shaded" compaired to the top half...The "horizon line is half way up...(Try it and you will see..place a CB at the contact point and then mark where the CB touches the cloth...when you put your tip there it will reflect on or just below the horizon line) Once you have done this a couple times at becomes a very quick process...
Screen 2 - Keeping the tip of the cue on the Center Ghost Ball Contact point pivot the butt end of your cue directly over your CB...This will show you the track line the CB must travel on to make proper contact...
Screen -You will then slide the cue back into position and shoot the Center CB to your "Aim Point"
Typically most shots will line up on or very near one of the HH 3-line axis points on the OB.....(what that means is I don't need to remember the aim point...I will make an instant note of which of the 3-line axis points I need to hit and can go have a drink or whatever and then still have the correct aim point.
NOTE: This will give you a center CB AIM POINT...NOT the actual contact points between the CB and the OB.
Typically I don't need to go through any of the above...and can see the angles and know which of the 3-line axis points I need to hit....But it is very nice to have to fall back on for those "off" nights...and it is definatley a bonus for people like me that have bad eyes and are not able to clearly see (or hold) an exact contact point on a OB
I just need to be able to know what axis line I need to aim at with center CB
I local shortstop taught me a similar method for very difficult, long-distance cut shots (e.g. cueball in the jaws of a pocket, object ball on the spot). It's quite effective with minimal practice, and with a decent amount of practice you'll be scaring your opponents in no time!
That is similar to the Hal Houle Shis-ke-Bob method
.A visual aid that helps me know when the tip is dead center of the CB is the reflection of the tip on the OB..As you move closer and farther away from the OB the reflection will move higher and lower...when the tip reflection is in the center of the OB that is where the center of the Ghost Ball would be. An additional visual aid that helps you know where half way up the OB ball is, is the brightness of the ball....On the lower half of the OB the light will be "shaded" compaired to the top half...The "horizon line is half way up...(Try it and you will see..place a CB at the contact point and then mark where the CB touches the cloth...when you put your tip there it will reflect on or just below the horizon line) Once you have done this a couple times at becomes a very quick process...
I've pivoted like you mentioned, but I would only guess where the tip should go. I've never considered the reflection before. Very interesting. I'll definitely try it.
what I mean by axis points are the imaginary verticle lines running up through the center OB, 1/4 OB, and Edge of OB. (those are almost always my aim points (except for thin cuts like you diagram which I will explain with the shis-ke-bob method)
The HH 3-line is based on 3 shots...(that cover a major portion of all shots) .......I "believe" the method I described in my previous post is called a "center to center" method...I did not know this before I stumbled on to this method, but when I described to someone I was told that it sounds like the center to center method...(center CB to center GB)
Anyway....sometimes I can't readily tell which of the 3-axis lines to aim for..I those cases I will use the system above to identify.
A vast majority of all shots will fall into one of three (AIM POINTS)
Key thing to remember about this system is that they are Aim Points and not the actual contact points between the two balls...(that can be a difficult hurdle for some people that have bee using contact ponts on the CB and OB for aiming)...I could never get comfortable with my cue going through center CB but using reference points that are "off center"
Center CB to 1/4 OB
Center CB to Edge OB
1/4 CB to Edge OB.... (for this aim I still set the cue through the center of the CB but I use (just outside) the left or right side of the shaft to aim to the Edge of the OB)
Threre have been many discussions on this method..(I call it in computer terms the DOS of aiming systems) I seems like every system will break down to one of the three (or four) aim points.
However...I also started a thread about the "HOLE" in the Hal Houle 3-line system...(which is only one of his many systems, but I consider this one his base system...aka the DOS of aiming) ...(that thread is also in the link above) "Resarching the "hole" is when I came up with the center to center verification process.....I did not start that thread to "expose" the system, but rather to study the system and gain a comfort level of the way I apply the system.
Shis-Ke-Bob - I only use one shot from the system...I could never get a grasp of the whole system when talking to Hal...and I found (like with all sytems) that they all convert down to the 3-line anyway...the rest are just fancy GUI methods to get you to the DOS of aiming. IMO
Since I prefer to stay on center CB for as many shots as possible.....and becuase I use BHE to apply english..(which pretty much requires you start from a center CB) I liked this SKB method for really thin cuts...
Thin cuts (if using the system above) means your aim point through center CB will be off into space somewhere (meaning past the outer edge of the OB)...I have bad eyes so for me its hard to "judge" where in space I need to aim cener CB... the Shis-ke-Bob method works like this.
Aim your cue through the inside 1/4 of the CB to the edge of the OB...then slightly "pivot" the tip of your cue to center CB.....That produces a edge to edge contact.
The math behind this is the if you aim the 1/4 to edge you have a 1/4 overlap...by pivoting your tip to center CB you subtract the 1/4 overlap and have an edge to edge contact....The math may not be scientifically "perfect" but it is so close that I don't worry about it...I do know that I can achive some paper thin cuts using this method...(there is an element of trust....and It is a system that also works better "for me" when I use thinner shafts...12.5 - 12.75
I like this because it allows me to aim a axis line to an axis line (and then pivot to subtract the overlap) ...
Interesting Note......IF I need to shoot the shot with inside english...I just line up 1/4 to edge and "don't" pivot the cue...at normal speed the deflection I get with my cue makes the shot and I get the inside english grab when it contacts the rail. ..........If I need outside english...I just keep moving the tip past center CB and the ball will deflect back online...
Any way..that is how I use the shis-ke-bob method...(one aim anyway)...I can't explain the rest since I only use it for this 1 shot.
Ken, thanks for such a detailed description. I really appreciate it. It's obvious that you understand the complexities of aiming and that some systems work for some shots and not for others.
For me, I see aiming as sort of my final frontier. Missing simple shots is the bane of my pool game. I'm always on the lookout for a better aiming routine or a way to improve on visualization. My eyes aren't great either, which throws everything off.
Thanks again.
Edit: BTW, there was a thread about a month ago where I show why it matters how you pivot depending upon how far away the CB is from the OB. For the shot you illustrate, if you were twice the distance from the OB, and made the same exact pivot, you'd miss the OB entirely. You would of course sense this and probably make subtle adjustments, but it shows that one pivot doesn't satisfy all conditions.
Ken, thanks for such a detailed description. I really appreciate it. It's obvious that you understand the complexities of aiming and that some systems work for some shots and not for others.
For me, I see aiming as sort of my final frontier. Missing simple shots is the bane of my pool game. I'm always on the lookout for a better aiming routine or a way to improve on visualization. My eyes aren't great either, which throws everything off.
I have to give credit where credit is due....Jimmy Mendoza...
Even though he is farily old school when it comes to giving up information about how to play right...(kind of like squeezing blood from a turnip) ...(he has slipped a few times and gave me some nuggets)....
He did tell me something that made a huge difference in my overall knowledge of aiming......I (like others) was skeptical of making the call to Hal Houle and getting his free information...(as you will see if you search the threads) he gets mixed reactions to his systems and he is farily "set in his ways" if you will.
Since I value Jimmy's opinion when it comes to pool knowledge, I asked him if he knew about Hal's systems and if it was "worth the call"...
He said yes he did....and...yes.....its worth the call....He said that just the knowledege (of his systems) would be beneficial...(even if you end up using a different system)
I would echo that statement (as long as Hal is still teaching...for free BTW) that anyone that has a real interest in studying aiming should talk to him "at least once"...(even if they don't end up useing his system)
There is a reason that BCA instructors have talked to him and devoloped systems that are based (at least in part) on the HH system....
BTW....For reference...The 3-Line system is actually (at least in part) a Ralph Greenleaf system that I belive the two of them devolped while they were on the road together (many many moons ago) ...
In the last couple years...much of his information has been studied, analyzed...skeptesized.... and in some cases modified into other individualized systems..(kind of like what I did with the Center to Center verification)....so much of what he teaches will be available online "somewhere"
But there is no better than hearing it from the horses mouth...and he does also have some pretty cool stories...and loves to talk pool....You could easily wind up being on the phone for over an hour....real fast...
BTW....I am to a point that I am more than 100% confident in my aim on any shot.......The ongoing battle to perfection lies with execution of the perfect stroke...
If you mean the resulting alignment is "geometrically correct" like that achieved by the double-overlap method (and the ghostball method and the paralleling method for two other examples), that's true. But each of them arrive at the geometrically correct alignment using very different methods.
This "pivot over the midpoint" method is particularly handy when the CB is close to the OB, which can make other methods more difficult.
Ken, thanks for such a detailed description. I really appreciate it. It's obvious that you understand the complexities of aiming and that some systems work for some shots and not for others.
For me, I see aiming as sort of my final frontier. Missing simple shots is the bane of my pool game. I'm always on the lookout for a better aiming routine or a way to improve on visualization. My eyes aren't great either, which throws everything off.
Thanks again.
Edit: BTW, there was a thread about a month ago where I show why it matters how you pivot depending upon how far away the CB is from the OB. For the shot you illustrate, if you were twice the distance from the OB, and made the same exact pivot, you'd miss the OB entirely. You would of course sense this and probably make subtle adjustments, but it shows that one pivot doesn't satisfy all conditions.
That is a key statement for any and all aiming or alignment systems....I don't care what system you describe...there is going to be an element of "feel"....
and you are correct... distance plays a factor in pivot..but not much
For any "system" I use...I think of it as a tool to help me gain the feel I need to make the shot...
Edit: BTW, there was a thread about a month ago where I show why it matters how you pivot depending upon how far away the CB is from the OB. For the shot you illustrate, if you were twice the distance from the OB, and made the same exact pivot, you'd miss the OB entirely. You would of course sense this and probably make subtle adjustments, but it shows that one pivot doesn't satisfy all conditions.
I pivot the exact same for everything. I never miss the OB entirely. The description of shish ke bob above may be a system, but it's not a hal system. Hal's "shish-ke-bob" is actually a 1/4 to 1/4 system for making combinations.
I think the confusion might lie in the "where" center is. There are an infinite number of "visual" centers of the CB depending on one's perspective. The "center" is where the tip pivots to meet that point... not from your sight perspective. Man, I hope I described that correctly.
I've experimented GREATLY with this... I make balls of all distances with tiny pivots and with 1/2 ball pivots...the solution works the same.
Bluepepper, I recall your post that showed your pivot missing the ball. I think there's a point to where the solution is thrown off when the pivot point is too close to the CB. I just ran down to my table to make sure and when I bridge very close, the pivot sends me out into nowhere. From a normal bridge length and beyond (to the point of ridiculousness), the pivot takes me to the same spot visually.
Although I never had less than an A in geometry, I'm NO expert in the why's of this. Can you adjust where a cue pivots from in your diagram and re-evaluate? All I know is I can have you stand beside me at a table and visually see my cue, post-pivot, is the same regardless of pivot distance.
If anybody's interested, here's how this "pivot over the midpoint" method works:
Pivoting over the midpoint between the two balls makes the part of the stick over the OB move to the side in one direction (left or right) and the part of the stick over the CB move to the side in the other direction, (here's the key part) by exactly the same distance.
This means that when the part of the stick over the OB is directly over the OB contact point, then the part of the stick over the CB is directly over the corresponding CB contact point - so the stick is aligned directly over the path the CB contact point must take to hit the OB contact point. Of course, this contact point-to-contact point path is parallel with the path the CB's center must take to hit the ghost ball's center.
Sorry if this is obvious to some already.
pj
chgo
P.S. If you (or somebody you know) has difficulty visualizing the CB contact point, this method is a way to find it mechanically (and maybe help learn to visualize it more easily over time).
I pivot the exact same for everything. I never miss the OB entirely. The description of shish ke bob above may be a system, but it's not a hal system. Hal's "shish-ke-bob" is actually a 1/4 to 1/4 system for making combinations.
I think the confusion might lie in the "where" center is. There are an infinite number of "visual" centers of the CB depending on one's perspective. The "center" is where the tip pivots to meet that point... not from your sight perspective. Man, I hope I described that correctly.
I've experimented GREATLY with this... I make balls of all distances with tiny pivots and with 1/2 ball pivots...the solution works the same.
Bluepepper, I recall your post that showed your pivot missing the ball. I think there's a point to where the solution is thrown off when the pivot point is too close to the CB. I just ran down to my table to make sure and when I bridge very close, the pivot sends me out into nowhere. From a normal bridge length and beyond (to the point of ridiculousness), the pivot takes me to the same spot visually.
Although I never had less than an A in geometry, I'm NO expert in the why's of this. Can you adjust where a cue pivots from in your diagram and re-evaluate? All I know is I can have you stand beside me at a table and visually see my cue, post-pivot, is the same regardless of pivot distance.
When I talked to Hal I rember I specifically remember asking him about a method for thin cuts and that I had alignment issues aiming "center to air"...so to speak.....He told me that he had the answer to all my thin cut problems and that it was part of the shish-ke-bob system he teaches.....he then went on to explain the process of 1/4 to edge and pivot to center to subtract the 1/4...
As I posted earlier.....I was haveing a hard time following and making the system work for other shots so I did not spend much time with it...but it sure worked great for thin cuts..
I may have mis heard him (or mis understood him), but that call was the first time ever he used or I heard of the words Shish-ke-bob
Now interested in the 1/4 to 1/4 combo system though....I never got that far with Hal....He did make mention of banks, but not combos....perhaps he did not think I was ready for combos.
Would you like to elaborate on that combo system???
FYI, I have video demos of the ghost ball and cue tip pivot techniques in NV 3.1 and NV 3.2.
Regards,
Dave
BRKNRUN said:
That is similar to the Hal Houle Shis-ke-Bob method
Here is another method that I use for aiming when I can't just visually see it. I use this in combination with the HH 3-line aiming.
What I like most about this method is that it allows me to always aim through the center CB to a "Aim Point"
In your example it is a fairly severe cut, so I would use a slightly different method to align but for every shot this method will work to get you a aim point for center CB.
My only problem with you method is determining the contact point...(how far do I pivot)...
Here is the method I use
Screen 1 - Stand directly behind the OB and determin your contact point (assuming no english, throw, cling etc) Place your tip where the center of the "Gost Ball" would be...A visual aid that helps me know when the tip is dead center of the CB is the reflection of the tip on the OB..As you move closer and farther away from the OB the reflection will move higher and lower...when the tip reflection is in the center of the OB that is where the center of the Ghost Ball would be. An additional visual aid that helps you know where half way up the OB ball is, is the brightness of the ball....On the lower half of the OB the light will be "shaded" compaired to the top half...The "horizon line is half way up...(Try it and you will see..place a CB at the contact point and then mark where the CB touches the cloth...when you put your tip there it will reflect on or just below the horizon line) Once you have done this a couple times at becomes a very quick process...
Screen 2 - Keeping the tip of the cue on the Center Ghost Ball Contact point pivot the butt end of your cue directly over your CB...This will show you the track line the CB must travel on to make proper contact...
Screen -You will then slide the cue back into position and shoot the Center CB to your "Aim Point"
Typically most shots will line up on or very near one of the HH 3-line axis points on the OB.....(what that means is I don't need to remember the aim point...I will make an instant note of which of the 3-line axis points I need to hit and can go have a drink or whatever and then still have the correct aim point.
NOTE: This will give you a center CB AIM POINT...NOT the actual contact points between the CB and the OB.
Typically I don't need to go through any of the above...and can see the angles and know which of the 3-line axis points I need to hit....But it is very nice to have to fall back on for those "off" nights...and it is definatley a bonus for people like me that have bad eyes and are not able to clearly see (or hold) an exact contact point on a OB
I just need to be able to know what axis line I need to aim at with center CB
I've experimented GREATLY with this... I make balls of all distances with tiny pivots and with 1/2 ball pivots...the solution works the same.
Bluepepper, I recall your post that showed your pivot missing the ball. I think there's a point to where the solution is thrown off when the pivot point is too close to the CB. I just ran down to my table to make sure and when I bridge very close, the pivot sends me out into nowhere. From a normal bridge length and beyond (to the point of ridiculousness), the pivot takes me to the same spot visually.
Although I never had less than an A in geometry, I'm NO expert in the why's of this. Can you adjust where a cue pivots from in your diagram and re-evaluate? All I know is I can have you stand beside me at a table and visually see my cue, post-pivot, is the same regardless of pivot distance.
I know the system works for you. I've seen you pocket balls very cleanly, and it's hard to argue with success, but I do think you're making a lot of little adjustments when you do your aligning and pivoting.
Not to be funny, but I too just went down to my table(not as pretty as yours), and tried different pivot points on the cue and different distances from the OB and although they worked for you, they didn't work for me. Of course I'm being a robot doing these pivots and you've acclimated yourself to the technique and whatever adjustments must be made subconsciously.
Sometimes the area on the cueball looks close to where it should be after a pivot, but it would look close for any distance over a couple of feet, since the difference between a full hit and an ultra thin cut on the OB with respect to center cueball/tip contact is only a matter of
about 1/2 inch at 2 feet, or 1/4 inch at 4 feet.
Here's a copy of my old post from the other thread for those who are interested. For some reason you have to go to page 2 before you can see page 1. Go figure. Maybe we can come up with an experiment to prove or disprove this.
This means that when the part of the stick over the OB is directly over the OB contact point, then the part of the stick over the CB is directly over the corresponding CB contact point - so the stick is aligned directly over the path the CB contact point must take to hit the OB contact point. Of course, this contact point-to-contact point path is parallel with the path the CB's center must take to hit the ghost ball's center.
Sorry if this is obvious to some already.
pj
chgo
P.S. If you (or somebody you know) has difficulty visualizing the CB contact point, this method is a way to find it mechanically (and maybe help learn to visualize it more easily over time).
Yes Patrick. That's what I see too. I think the center between the 2 balls is the only pivot point that automatically finds the 2 contact points no matter what angle you're shooting. Maybe visualizing the entire process is worth practicing.
I would echo that statement (as long as Hal is still teaching...for free BTW) that anyone that has a real interest in studying aiming should talk to him "at least once"...(even if they don't end up useing his system)
There is a reason that BCA instructors have talked to him and devoloped systems that are based (at least in part) on the HH system....
But there is no better than hearing it from the horses mouth...and he does also have some pretty cool stories...and loves to talk pool....You could easily wind up being on the phone for over an hour....real fast...
BTW....I am to a point that I am more than 100% confident in my aim on any shot.......The ongoing battle to perfection lies with execution of the perfect stroke...
LOL...I like NV 3.2 that pretty much exactly describes the method. I stumbled onto that method while practicing so that I could "verify" my chosen verticle axis point on the OB using the 3-line system.
It is nice to see some validation of that method.....
I did not think I was going to come up with something that had not already been thought of before...LOL.....I was told by one person that it was called a "center to center" system devised by I am not sure who... (The name Hal Mix pops in my head)
The only thing that was missing was how to determin where you place your cue tip (how do you determin that you have the tip placed at "center ghost ball") without placing another ball on the table in the ghost ball position?
I kind of described in my previous post that you can use the reflection of the tip on the OB to determin the center GB spot (on most tables with normal overhead lighting)
If you ever revise NV 3.2 you might consider playing around with that and if you like it add it in.
...(he has slipped a few times and gave me some nuggets)....
