Another APA rules question

[Burtus]

I recently started to play on a league team this summer. We played for the final last night. During my match my inexperience played out. I was to shoot at the eight ball which was welded to the four. As I walked up to the table to look at the shot I put the pocket marker down between two pockets right next to me. I looked it over and forgot to place thew marker as I got ready to shoot. I already used my coach. As I got ready to shoot one of my teammates asked loudly if i wanted to mark my pocket. All hell breaks loose as the other team was claiming an illegal coach and I agree to give the guy ball in hand. The ball is still sitting as it was before my shot untouched. He walks over and sees that there is no way to make the four from any angle and says just shoot the shot. I thought that he passed up a ball in hand so I should have ball in hand to with a strait in shot on the eight. I chose to shoot the ball as it laid because I started the fiasco in the first place. How should this have gone down and what would you have done.

I missed the shot but won the game.
Burt

 

[cbi1000]

telling someone to mark their pocket is NOT coaching. You should have never givin up ball in hand.

If you ever have issues with this your should alwasy have your league reps phone # on hand to contact for a ruling.

 

[s'portplayer]

I second this motion. All in favor, IIIIIIIIIIII

 

[BigDogatLarge]

I recently started to play on a league team this summer. We played for the final last night. During my match my inexperience played out. I was to shoot at the eight ball which was welded to the four. As I walked up to the table to look at the shot I put the pocket marker down between two pockets right next to me. I looked it over and forgot to place thew marker as I got ready to shoot. I already used my coach. As I got ready to shoot one of my teammates asked loudly if i wanted to mark my pocket. All hell breaks loose as the other team was claiming an illegal coach and I agree to give the guy ball in hand. The ball is still sitting as it was before my shot untouched. He walks over and sees that there is no way to make the four from any angle and says just shoot the shot. I thought that he passed up a ball in hand so I should have ball in hand to with a strait in shot on the eight. I chose to shoot the ball as it laid because I started the fiasco in the first place. How should this have gone down and what would you have done.

I missed the shot but won the game.
Burt

it is no rule violation to call out to mark the pocket and to have the opponent take ball in hand and then refuse the shot because of a poor lie, it unsportsmanship at it's worst.

11. COACHING
As is the case in many sports, coaching is both logical and reasonable.
Coaching gives the more advanced players a chance to help the newer players
with their game under competitive circumstances. Coaching is defined as
giving advice to your teammate during his turn at the table. Some examples
of what is considered coaching are: giving advice as to which ball to shoot,
where to leave the cue ball, whether to shoot soft or hard, or whether or not to
use english. These types of comments are considered coaching because they
relate to the game situation.
Some examples of what is not considered coaching are telling a player which
category of balls is his, reminding him to chalk up or to mark the pocket when
shooting the 8-ball, or telling a player a foul has occurred. Comments such as
?good hit? or ?nice shot? or answering a player?s question concerning rules is
not considered coaching. Any comments made to a player when it is not his
turn at the table are not considered coaching.
Obviously, judgments will have to be made. Play it safe?when your
opponent finishes his turn, do not continue talking to your teammates. Go to
the table to begin your turn. Be courteous to your opponent. Observe the
following coaching guidelines:
a. Any member of the team can be the coach. The coach does not
have to be designated until a time-out is called, and a different
coach can be designated for each time-out.
b. So that coaching does not cause excessive delays in the progress
of a match, players with skill levels of 4 and up may receive one
coaching per game, and players with skill levels of 2 or 3
and nonrated players may receive two coachings per game.
GeneralRules
2

Good Luck,

Dwight

 

[Bob Jewett]

... How should this have gone down and what would you have done. ...

As was pointed out, it was no foul and someone present should have known that. I would have read the rule book. I urge you to read the rule book. It is available for free on-line at the APA National website.

If you read some of the "what's the rule for..." postings in this forum, you will come to the conclusion that most players have never read the rules. Knowing the rules can be a big advantage for a new player. Be sure to bring a copy with you to league because the ignorant "old hands" will not believe you.

 

[Wyoming Will]

Son, whenever you're negotiating, you gotta know what you're negotiating for! When you strike a deal, always make sure both parties are fully aware as to what has been agreed upon. Even though this situation is spelled out in the rulebook, there are going to be situations that aren't and are going to require that the two of you come up with something on your own. Just say next time, "I owe you a beer for starting this whole fiasco but can we be clear on where we stand now?"

 

[TheNewSharkster]

I always bring the rule book for situations like this since it clearly says you can tell a player to mark the pocket.

We had a funny situation come up last night with breaking where the person playing failed to make a legal break twice in a row. The opposing team said they get the break when that happens. I had to show them the rule book before they agreed.

If anything try to get the bar you play out of to have a rule book behind the counter.

 

[tucson9ball]

Rules

I recently started to play on a league team this summer. We played for the final last night. During my match my inexperience played out. I was to shoot at the eight ball which was welded to the four. As I walked up to the table to look at the shot I put the pocket marker down between two pockets right next to me. I looked it over and forgot to place thew marker as I got ready to shoot. I already used my coach. As I got ready to shoot one of my teammates asked loudly if i wanted to mark my pocket. All hell breaks loose as the other team was claiming an illegal coach and I agree to give the guy ball in hand. The ball is still sitting as it was before my shot untouched. He walks over and sees that there is no way to make the four from any angle and says just shoot the shot. I thought that he passed up a ball in hand so I should have ball in hand to with a strait in shot on the eight. I chose to shoot the ball as it laid because I started the fiasco in the first place. How should this have gone down and what would you have done.

I missed the shot but won the game.
Burt

Well, first off: rules vary from BCA, VNEA, and APA. I would recommend that every league member read their rule book.
In your case, it is NOT a foul to tell a teammate to mark the pocket. So this fiasco should not have taken place.

 

[Burtus]

Thanks to all for your answers and excellent advice. I will have a rules book and will have read it by the next time I play.
Burt

 

[Thunderball]

telling someone to mark their pocket is NOT coaching.

This is correct.....

Here is some more advice for ya,cuz it sure as hell seems like your league is full of lawyers.

The next time YOU are not sure,but THEY call foul,just say "SHOW ME!".

They will say somthing like "huh?...wtf??"...

You say "let me see the rule in the book"....most likely they can't or will be ill prepared and off you go back to shooting.If they are prepared,then you will learn somthing new.

Its win win.

Really,MAKE EM PROVE THEY ARE RIGHT...don't take anyones word for it.Hell,they may not be lying,just dumber then all hell,or with a F'd up interpretation (dammed easy to do with the apa wording)

That said...read the rules and the bylaws....mine were on the back of the john for months just for refresher reading.

 

[Gregg]

telling someone to mark their pocket is NOT coaching. You should have never givin up ball in hand.

If you ever have issues with this your should alwasy have your league reps phone # on hand to contact for a ruling.

Or player handbook or better yet the team handbook.

You NEVER know when a rule can come into question. Even when opposing players are dead wrong.

We were playing another team, super people, great team to play against. A really good SL5 was shooting, and called a foul, seemingly out of nowhere.

He believed that if two balls were frozen to each other (not on the rail) that it was a foul if the cue ball didn't hit a rail, EVEN if the object ball or any other ball hit a rail. He was obviously was misinterpreting the rules, but believed he was correct, up until we went to the book.

You would think that very little could come up while playing an established player who also intends to win and play by the rules, but this was not the case that night. Without the book, the confusion would have been extended.

 

[mongoose-]

To my knowledge that is not a foul. I am a skill level 9 in 9 ball & a 7 in 8 ball. When I was playing the APA with a bunch of friends I played with for 3 years we ALWAYS during regular session play had the courtesy to let the other team player know if they had not marked the pocket or shooting at the wrong ball etc... granted our league was a small league and bigger leagues are much harder to keep your team standings high to get in playoffs. What never ceases to amaze me in the APA and I probably should not use only the APA as an example but it's been some years since I have played other league formats as the APA is very big here in Maine is there are so many blood thirsty people out there and the majority I have seen from my experience here they are of lower level players. If it is the playoffs yes it's up to the shooter to make sure they don't commit a foul and I would definatly call it but in reg session play myself personally like to help ALL around me. There certainly isn't no money in the APA in the long run and if those gurus causing the problems over the rules especially to a new player can't see the benefit of welcoming and helping new players to the sport then f**k them. Read that rule book and keep a copy with you as morons are everywhere in this game. Good luck to you.

 

[Scott Lee]

mongoose...This is great advice. The majority of players in ANY league have not read the actual rule book, and just having a rule book handy solves most problems. I will tell you, that if you get to go to APA Nationals, EVERY player there has read the rule book, and many matches are decided on rule interpretations.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

If you read some of the "what's the rule for..." postings in this forum, you will come to the conclusion that most players have never read the rules. Knowing the rules can be a big advantage for a new player. Be sure to bring a copy with you to league because the ignorant "old hands" will not believe you.

 

[mongoose-]

Thanks scott... yes i agree with you the rules interpretation at the nationals.. i have been there a few times but only for the masters not the team or singles events and we had little probs with the rules in that case. Too bad everyone wouldn't help out the newbies joining the sport.. but if it was a perfect world nobody would ever miss either would they lol.

 

[ronhudson]

By the way, someone in the thread mentioned bylaws, and that's important. Every league operator is allowed to make certain exceptions to the APA format. Not sure what all rules changes are allowed, but each local league operator publishes a bylaws that list any changes. The bylaws is distributed with the rules books. Be sure to know what's in those bylaws as well as the rules.

 

[mongoose-]

That is absolutly correct to my knowledge as well ronhudson. I just looked at my previous post. Terrible sentencing. I'm more use to a chat client like mIRC.. will have to get use to posting by forum lol. Excellent site eother way.