Another chicken shit “foul”

David in FL said:
If you play a game seriously, let alone professionally, you should know he rules.

Whether the rule needs to be changed or not is up for discussion, but unless a TD decides to do so beforehand, individual players/refs can't arbitrarily decide to enforce some rules but not others.
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you must be the life of the party. if the drinks aren't poured exactly right do you call foul?? ;) seriously, there is the literal rule and the implementation. there is wiggle room in all things dealing with rules. even the usga had to have a 'decisions' book to explain the use of the rules. not everything is blk-white and this, imo, is another case of 'nittius maximus'.
 
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Texas Carom Club said:
And yes whether or not the rules shouldn’t exist is exactly the discussion here
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No it's not.

The discussion here is that people think that a rule that is on the books should be arbitrarily ignored.

If it's a bad rule, then let's change it.

Until then, play the game by the rules.

And don't kid yourself, they knew the rule...
 
garczar said:
you must be the life of the party. if the drinks aren't poured exactly right do you call foul?? ;) seriously, there is the literal rule and the implementation. there is wiggle room in all things dealing with rules. even the usga had to have a 'decisions' book to explain the use of the rules. not everything is blk-white and this, imo, is another case of 'nittius maximus'.
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Games are played by rules.
 
David in FL said:
No it's not.

The discussion here is that people think that a rule that is on the books should be arbitrarily ignored.

If it's a bad rule, then let's change it.

Until then, play the game by the rules.

And don't kid yourself, they knew the rule...
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Not once did I ever make mention that it should be ignored you injecte that yourself
I just said it’s fkn stupid

It sure as hell didn’t look like they knew it to me
 
David in FL said:
Games are played by rules.
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yes, and not everything is blk/white, set in stone. in the op's case it looks like the ref was more concerned with covering his ass than making the call. no way was what the 'fouler' did going to change outcome of that game. you really must be a joy to be around.
 
garczar said:
yes, and not everything is blk/white, set in stone. in the op's case it looks like the ref was more concerned with covering his ass than making the call. no way was what the 'fouler' did going to change outcome of that game. you really must be a joy to be around.
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So how do you decide which rules you follow and which you don't?

What happens if your opponent has a different list of rules that they ignore than you do?
 
Bob Jewett said:
Rule 6.6 says that if a ball is touched intentionally -- and it does not distinguish between in/out of play -- then 6.17 Unsportsmanlike Conduct applies. Touching balls that are out of play for whatever reason is not mentioned explicitly. I think it should be. It used to be.

Also "in play" and its opposite are not defined.
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So when people move balls from overloaded pockets prior to shooting this is unsportsmanlike?

We have all seen this happen thousands of times with no complaints from anyone.

That rule seems like it needs to be clarified more.

As far as the actual foul it looked like the guy has spent many hours gambling and just did that out of habit.
 
Coos Cues said:
So when people move balls from overloaded pockets prior to shooting this is unsportsmanlike?

We have all seen this happen thousands of times with no complaints from anyone.

That rule seems like it needs to be clarified more.

As far as the actual foul it looked like the guy has spent many hours gambling and just did that out of habit.
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If they do it while the cue ball is rolling
 
David in FL said:
So how do you decide which rules you follow and which you don't?

What happens if your opponent has a different list of rules that they ignore than you do?

I'm asking seriously.
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I never said anything about not following the rules you just keep saying it doesn’t make it true
It’s a matter of sportsmanship, if you feel as if you need to steal a win that way your no competitor

Hence chicken shit
 
I disagree with blanket application of the term "unsportsmanlike". There was nothing unsportsmanlike about this action. Unsportsmanlike to me is an intentional act performed to demean or embarrass one's opponent, use rules in ways other than intended, etc., similar to Matt's definition, and is always a judgement call, only to be made by referees or other officials. In the NFL, for example, a quarterback who rushes a play to catch the opponent with 12 men on the field when he knows damn well that the 12th man who is rushing to get off will not affect the play at all is guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct. The NFL ref should throw a flag for 12 men, but should also be allowed to throw one for unsportsmanlike conduct. I find it slightly humorous that the technical penalty is "delay of game", but the QB actually started the play early.

The ref here should, at most, explain to the offender the need for the rule about touching object balls then make a decision about whether there was anything unsportsmanlike about this specific case. If he took the ball out and threw it at his opponent or tossed it on the table loudly (whether the cue ball was moving or not), THAT would be unsportsmanlike. If that term is used in the written rules, it should be written as "may be unsportsmanlike" and not "is unsportsmanlike". Many people don't like wiggle room in the rules, but to eliminate it you have to spell out every possible application - anything short of that and there's some wiggle room.
 
so maybe the ref should ask the other player then if he cares if he doesnt enforce the foul and it may or will cost him the match which could be for a serious amount of life changing money to him.
i am sure those in favor of that here would let themselves lose the match if hill hill for say 25,000 dollars to some other player they barely or dont even know. because thats chicken chit in their book to do. and the other player would probably do it to you.

for me, in a cash game never. and in a tournament always will call all rules.
 
Texas Carom Club said:
I never said anything about not following the rules you just keep saying it doesn’t make it true
It’s a matter of sportsmanship, if you feel as if you need to steal a win that way your no competitor

Hence chicken shit
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It's a rule. You're saying that he's a nit for wanting to follow the rules.

When do you decide to follow any individual rule, or not?

When is it not chicken shit to follow a rule?
 
Coos Cues said:
So when people move balls from overloaded pockets prior to shooting this is unsportsmanlike? ...
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Technically, under the current wording, it is.

It used to be that players were expressly permitted to touch balls (including clearing pockets) to assist the referee. And only to assist the ref. Maybe that rule needs to go back in.

Under the current rule, if a player knocks a ball off the table and it rolls over by the seated player and that player picks the ball up and hands it to the referee, the seated player has committed unsportsmanlike conduct. HOWEVER! The appropriate penalty is for the referee to say "Thank you," when getting the ball. This requires some judgment on the part of the ref, but not much.
 
and suppose you are playing for the largest amount you ever have and the ref says to the player, oh thats actually a foul and you would lose this match. but thank you instead and carry on.
how many would say stop and say,, wait a minute here. a foul is a foul.

hats off to those that would. and hope you do it for me.
 
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