Another CTE question

[BeiberLvr]

Something else to add to Mohrt's posts.

In the DVDs and YT videos when Stan is demonstrating the sweeps, he sometimes does so in an exaggerated manner. Obviously for teaching purposes, but in actual game play, they are much more subtle. This is why those not proficient with the system always say things like, "I didn't even see him sweep."

 

[swest]

Se7en6ix, I appreciate you giving me some guidance, but again, the actual question I asked hasn't been touched on:

Is there any difference between the change in his perception that takes place between 1-ball and 3-ball in the first setup, and the change in his perception that takes place between the 1-ball and 3-ball in the second setup?

Remember, in my first post about this, I said: Please read that carefully. I'm wondering about differences here.

So, please give it another go, otherwise, I'll just drop it. Which is fine too.

 

[mohrt]

I hesitate to do this. I don't want to poison the well even before I get Stan's DVD... but, what the hell? (please see my question below your post).



You say that, "each shot will have a slightly different orientation". I would like to pose a little thought experiment using curtains. Say we have the following setup (the shooter can't see beyond the curtains, but the Great Observer - that's us - can see the reality).

I will stipulate that the 1-ball is makeable in the top left corner pocket by a shooter standing at the right of the table between the curtains. Further, based on that knowledge, he then moves to the 3-ball shot, his 'orientation' changes in whatever way you believe that it would change, and he then pockets the 3-ball in the same pocket.

(It is a separate question as to whether, with the curtains in place, he actually has enough information to pocket the 1-ball... but for now, we will assume he can.)

Now we move the curtains, and set up the shots again:

I will stipulate that the shooter again makes the 1-ball in the upper left corner pocket, and then moves to the 3-ball and proceeds to pocket it. Now here is my question:

Is there any difference between the change in his perception that takes place between 1-ball and 3-ball in the first setup, and the change in his perception that takes place between the 1-ball and 3-ball in the second setup?

Please read that carefully. I'm wondering about differences here.

Thanks.

- s.west

Without trying this setup, I'm going to guess that there will not be enough information to gain the correct perceptions. You are blocking all peripheral information on the table except the end rails, and there is not enough information to connect the perception to the pocket. Perceptually, both of these setups would look identical. I also notice with your cut and paste the diamonds are not correctly marked, but I don't think the diamonds are keys to perceptions anyways.

 

[stan shuffett]

Without trying this setup, I'm going to guess that there will not be enough information to gain the correct perceptions. You are blocking all peripheral information on the table except the end rails, and there is not enough information to connect the perception to the pocket. Perceptually, both of these setups would look identical. I also notice with your cut and paste the diamonds are not correctly marked, but I don't think the diamonds are keys to perceptions anyways.

Good catch on the diamonds.

Assuming the first line for the CB and red OB is on line as shown for the actual first diamond, I would be home free for both shots. It does not take but 1 clue to know where some right angles are lurking......a line as shown to any bottom rail diamond is clue enough.

Stan Shuffett

 

[mohrt]

Good catch on the diamonds.

Assuming the first line for the CB and red OB is on line as shown for the actual first diamond, I would be home free for both shots. It does not take but 1 clue to know where some right angles are lurking......a line as shown to any bottom rail diamond is clue enough.

Stan Shuffett

There you go. At first I didn't think there would be enough information to determine which diamond you were sitting on, but I think in this case the head/foot spots would give it away. However if the curtain is blocking the middle diamond, how would you know if you are on the 1st or 3rd diamond?

 

[stan shuffett]

There you go. At first I didn't think there would be enough information to determine which diamond you were sitting on, but I think in this case the head/foot spots would give it away.

Yes, the head of the table gives a lot of info for awareness of right angles. Nonetheless, if I should expand my curtain system, this set-up will be one that I will put to test.

Stan Shuffett

 

[swest]

Without trying this setup, I'm going to guess that there will not be enough information to gain the correct perceptions. You are blocking all peripheral information on the table except the end rails, and there is not enough information to connect the perception to the pocket. Perceptually, both of these setups would look identical. I also notice with your cut and paste the diamonds are not correctly marked, but I don't think the diamonds are keys to perceptions anyways.

Two things: The misplaced diamonds are just an artifact of my clumsy cutting, and pasting. I had never heard anything about the expectation that the diamonds even be present, so I didn't think it was important.

Second, I gave a lot of thought to this after I set it up, and I realized that the curtains really had nothing to do with the question I'm wondering about. I should have left them out of it. You can just as well answer the question without regard to the curtains. I'm really just interested in how moving the two setups would make different the change in perception from the 1-ball to the 3-ball (in both). I know it's a bit of a twist, but I think it's a significant question.

Thanks for your patience.

- s.west

 

[Se7en6ix]

Se7en6ix, I appreciate you giving me some guidance, but again, the actual question I asked hasn't been touched on:



Remember, in my first post about this, I said: Please read that carefully. I'm wondering about differences here.

So, please give it another go, otherwise, I'll just drop it. Which is fine too.

Perception wise there is none because all balls can be pocketed using 15 Degree perception. BUT physically wise there is difference.

This is my reference as Stan explains it…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Psy5hOJT0

Setup 1 Using 15 degree perception for 1 & 3 balls
The 1 Ball to the Left corner is a 15 degree perception to its extent while the 3 ball is not. This is for the fact that even though they’re both a 15 degree perception, your physical alignment on the 3 ball is quite thicker than that of the 1 Ball setup.
I you apply the extent of a 15 degree perception to the 3 ball, you might end up thin hitting the rail

Setup 2 has the same principle as setup 1 only this time the there is no need to use the extent of 15 degree perception.

So your question: “Is there any difference between the change in his perception?”
My answer is YES and that YES means that perceptions for all the shots based on your diagram is the same BUT by physicality, there is an obvious difference in alignment when acquiring a certain perception.

So YES there’s difference.

 

[swest]

Thank you for the explanation.

- s.west

 

[mista335]

It seems the discussion has been more focus on pocketing balls, but ball placement that is required in safety play is never mentioned.
Enjoy

Of course.

CTE is about pocketing balls directly or by banking.

Your crusade to to discredit Pro One has just laid another egg.

 

[Gerry Williams]

It is as simple as see and shoot. Of course it takes time and effort to become proficient but it is that simple. Once it clicks you can never go back

Are you trying to insult again...The only person I represent is me.

See and shoot.....the approach is far from that.(maybe it becomes this way)You keep talking like people wanna see you fail,that's not the case at all .I do understand why you feel this way. I think people just want something that is easy and easily explained.

 

[duckie]

How do you know where to aim until you know where you need to put the OB?

And where in the pocket the OB goes does matter.

As proof, the nice little 6 ball into the corner. Until you know where to put the 6 such that it gets by the 9 and into the pocket, you can not aim. Until you know where you want the CB to go, you can not aim nor can you gauge what your stroke will be.

What would be nice is to place a curtain blocking the view into the pocket and seeing how well that shot is make.

Maybe the pocket doesn't matter, but what is in front of it surely does. Ever do any z shots.....that where a player, mostly in 8 ball, blocks the pocket with their ball. If done wrong, there are times you can send your ball off the rail, into the back of the blocking ball and your ball goes in the pocket.

Can this be done from behind a curtain? Can this done without considering where the pocket is?

 

[mohrt]

How do you know where to aim until you know where you need to put the OB?

And where in the pocket the OB goes does matter.

As proof, the nice little 6 ball into the corner. Until you know where to put the 6 such that it gets by the 9 and into the pocket, you can not aim. Until you know where you want the CB to go, you can not aim nor can you gauge what your stroke will be.

What would be nice is to place a curtain blocking the view into the pocket and seeing how well that shot is make.

Maybe the pocket doesn't matter, but what is in front of it surely does. Ever do any z shots.....that where a player, mostly in 8 ball, blocks the pocket with their ball. If done wrong, there are times you can send your ball off the rail, into the back of the blocking ball and your ball goes in the pocket.

Can this be done from behind a curtain? Can this done without considering where the pocket is?

The pocket is used to determine the visual for the shot. That has been said repeatedly. As for shooting around an impending ball, that is an adjustment to a center-pocket shot. Again, nothing new here.

 

[mohrt]

How do you know where to aim until you know where you need to put the OB?

And where in the pocket the OB goes does matter.

As proof, the nice little 6 ball into the corner. Until you know where to put the 6 such that it gets by the 9 and into the pocket, you can not aim. Until you know where you want the CB to go, you can not aim nor can you gauge what your stroke will be.

What would be nice is to place a curtain blocking the view into the pocket and seeing how well that shot is make.

Maybe the pocket doesn't matter, but what is in front of it surely does. Ever do any z shots.....that where a player, mostly in 8 ball, blocks the pocket with their ball. If done wrong, there are times you can send your ball off the rail, into the back of the blocking ball and your ball goes in the pocket.

Can this be done from behind a curtain? Can this done without considering where the pocket is?

The pocket location is used to decide the visual/sweep for the shot. That has been said repeatedly. As for shooting around an impending ball, that is an adjustment to a center-pocket shot. Again, nothing new here.

 

[BeiberLvr]

The pocket is used to determine the visual for the shot. That has been said repeatedly. As for shooting around an impending ball, that is an adjustment to a center-pocket shot. Again, nothing new here.

Nothing new indeed.

Especially the picture Duckie used which he's used before. I only hope he's improved enough to longer leave himself in such bad spots.

 

[swest]

I have watched the entire first DVD, and I am beginning DVD #2, and I will watch it in its entirety.

I will then want to go to the table and start shooting shots. I have a problem, however, that I don't get an answer to from DVD #1, and I don't think DVD #2 is going to answer it either.

I understand the CTE and Edge to A,B, or C lines. I understand Stan when he says, "I'm not behind either line when I go down on the shot." (I paraphrase).

What I haven't heard, as far as I am able to tell, is this question:

Where do I lay my cue, prior to making the pivot?
​

Thank you.

 

[mohrt]

I have watched the entire first DVD, and I am beginning DVD #2, and I will watch it in its entirety.

I will then want to go to the table and start shooting shots. I have a problem, however, that I don't think DVD #2 is going to answer for me.

I see the CTE and Edge to A,B, or C lines. I understand Stan when he says, "I'm not behind either line when I go down on the shot." (I paraphrase).

What I haven't heard, as far as I am able to tell, is this question:

Where do I lay my cue, prior to making the pivot?
​

Thank you.

The cue comes into CCB after the sweep. CCB is the target, nothing to do with CTEL A/B/C. Those are only used for initial eye placement for the fixed CB.

 

[bwally]

If you have your visuals obtained and you want to manual pivot go straight into the cue ball, then you are a manual half tip pivot from the correct shot line. Using Pro One no pivot is needed, let your eyes lead (sweep) you to centre cue ball.

I have watched the entire first DVD, and I am beginning DVD #2, and I will watch it in its entirety.

I will then want to go to the table and start shooting shots. I have a problem, however, that I don't think DVD #2 is going to answer for me.

I see the CTE and Edge to A,B, or C lines. I understand Stan when he says, "I'm not behind either line when I go down on the shot." (I paraphrase).

What I haven't heard, as far as I am able to tell, is this question:

Where do I lay my cue, prior to making the pivot?
​

Thank you.

 

[swest]

The cue comes into CCB after the sweep. CCB is the target, nothing to do with CTEL A/B/C. Those are only used for initial eye placement for the fixed CB.

Ok, then, where is initial eye placement? Stan only says that it is not on CTE, or CTEL A/B/C...

 

[bwally]

What mohrt said..lol

The cue comes into CCB after the sweep. CCB is the target, nothing to do with CTEL A/B/C. Those are only used for initial eye placement for the fixed CB.