I was to going to say something similar but add -- I do think the way strangers interact with each other has changed in just the past 20 years or so. Maybe it's because it's just not as necessary as it once was. I don't know, but it just seems like people are less likely to start up a conversation with someone they don't know, let alone seek advice on pool. I think even stone-cold hustlers are more willing to give advice than people on here like to pretend. You might have to ask them for it though.
Another Euro Phenom...........
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
This is exactly right. However, I am not sure if Mr. Page intended the order of his causes to reflect their importance, but in my opinion, the biggest issue is the collective expense (time and money) of travel.
The issue is this: How do we get our young 650 ish players to 750 and then 800. I live in the St. Louis metro area. There are two players that play 750 or above--Andy Quinn and Justin Bergman, and I am not sure that either plays all that much anymore. After them, the drop off is to the 700 range. To play another player that has a rating significantly above 700, players here must travel to KC, Chicago, the Quad Cities, Louisville or further. Even then, the champion players in those locations may be traveling, not interested in matching-up, etc.
The cost to play players that have fargo ratings significantly above 700 is the cost to take time away from school or a job, travel, eat, stay at a motel, and get a few innings in before Jesse Bowman, Can Salim, Mike Banks, Jr., or Louis Demarco steam roll the young up-and-coming traveling player. The young player needs more time with better players to make significant improvements. He or she needs those players in their community, and they need those players to be willing to spend time on the table for stakes that are "affordable" to the young player.
I was just talking about this with a buddy of mine the other day. Given how easy it is to travel in Europe and stay at affordable hostels and how much organized and unorganized competition there seems to be in Asia; it is hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel for American players. The cost to get on a table with a professional caliber opponent is too high.
Just my 0.02
kollegedave
Kansas City, Chicago, Indianapolis, and Louisville all all 4 hour drives from St. Louis. It's not Timbuktu.
If you're a young, promising player in the 700 range who is polite and pleasant to be around I seriously doubt you'd have a problem finding a decent game any weekend of the year. Would you have to travel and make sacrifices? Of course you would, but how is that different from any other national-level junior sport?
The bigger issue is getting American young people to dedicate themselves to pool when there are so many other, better ways to make a living and the dollar amounts available in pro pool are so small. Youth unemployment (age 15-24) in America is 9% in the latest CIA Factbook data. Europe is a shitshow by comparison: Spain 36%, Greece 36%, Italy 31%, Serbia 30%, Albania 28%, Sweden 24%, Portugal 23%, France 20%, Belgium 20%. Only Germany is below us at 7%.
If you're a young, promising player in the 700 range who is polite and pleasant to be around I seriously doubt you'd have a problem finding a decent game any weekend of the year. Would you have to travel and make sacrifices? Of course you would, but how is that different from any other national-level junior sport?
The bigger issue is getting American young people to dedicate themselves to pool when there are so many other, better ways to make a living and the dollar amounts available in pro pool are so small. Youth unemployment (age 15-24) in America is 9% in the latest CIA Factbook data. Europe is a shitshow by comparison: Spain 36%, Greece 36%, Italy 31%, Serbia 30%, Albania 28%, Sweden 24%, Portugal 23%, France 20%, Belgium 20%. Only Germany is below us at 7%.
That's my point, the cost to improvement is not worth the pay off.
"Excuse"?
You make it sound like kids that are not traveling 4 hours one way for a few hours of play with better players are lazy, because they are opting to pursue options that are more profitable. I would argue these kids are smart.
Arguably the most expensive part of travel (for a promising young person) is time--choosing what to give his or her energy to in a competitive secondary education market. So a four hour drive--one way--to get a little bit of time to play a better player is very expensive when it costs time away from AP History, AP English, SAT prep, or whatever, not to mention gas, rooms, and the avoidance of serial killers and grumpy old men.
kollegedave
You are the one who told a sob story about someone from St. Louis needing to drive 4 whole hours as if it’s some kind of huge imposition (it’s not) or unique in competitive sports (it’s not), not me.
“Given how easy it is to travel in Europe and stay at affordable hostels”
This was your comparison. Nothing is more affordable than jumping in the car in the US, paying a fraction of the price for gas compared to Europe, and staying at a motel.
“Given how easy it is to travel in Europe and stay at affordable hostels”
This was your comparison. Nothing is more affordable than jumping in the car in the US, paying a fraction of the price for gas compared to Europe, and staying at a motel.
i've brought it up before, but geography is an issue in europe too, even within some countries. the spanish players moved close to each other. the polish players also congregated for the sake of quality practice. makes sense if you're young and an aspiring player. snooker players have been doing it for decades. only in a few countries such as singapore and maybe taiwan, the netherlands this isn't an issue
I'm sure there's comaraderie. It's not so much about pushing the group. There's a pecking order and people try to move up. Some are more dedicated ahd have inate talent. It's more competitive.
This worked when US had so many rooms and the internet didjt squash all the competition. Now people know how everyone plays. Much less action.
As much as anything it's about egos.
When I had a room I did all I could to get Bergman vs Shaw 2 rematch. One don't want to travel. The other is afraudbto lose again. These guys care about their status vs others than proving they can win.
They were to play up in Maine. Bergman traveled there. Shaw no showed because he Saud they tried to put him on a 4.25 inch pocket "gaff table".
That's the state of pool.
I've tried to back/put in pros to play events in Derby and Turning Stone....you can't understand how hard it is. Even with a guaranteed payday and zero risk.
When I had a room I did all I could to get Bergman vs Shaw 2 rematch. One don't want to travel. The other is afraudbto lose again. These guys care about their status vs others than proving they can win.
They were to play up in Maine. Bergman traveled there. Shaw no showed because he Saud they tried to put him on a 4.25 inch pocket "gaff table".
That's the state of pool.
I've tried to back/put in pros to play events in Derby and Turning Stone....you can't understand how hard it is. Even with a guaranteed payday and zero risk.
Us might do better at developing pool players if they stopped worrying about action or gambling all together, it's an almost non existent part of the pool culture here. Usually bets if any are for dinner, or some beers, but then both people get to go and hang out together so it's a good time either way.
Personally I've done some small betting at 5 a set with various friends here and the negotiations are hilarious, both sides trying to give weight that almost guarentees the other wins. Not sure I've seen anyone actually go home with someone else's money.
A
It's over Johnny.
I cam say I rode pool to the bottom.
Action us all we have....well used to have.
It's over Johnny.
I cam say I rode pool to the bottom.
a tour is shaping up with serious prize money. rational choice theory suggests that also american players will adapt to whatever gives them the best chance to earn that tournament money. it may take a while, but i think we will see more private clubs with 9ft tables and pros sparring without action involved
Pool in Amsrica is a fringe sport. If you discount all the casual players who treat pool like we might miniature golf or a bowling night....there's very few players above Fargo 650.
Besides pool rooms continue to close because it’s hard to rent out 4000 square feet in a rural setting and make money renting tables....
stewie
Active member
If you talk travel and look at west of the i95 corridor, then things in Europe will always be closer to each other. But I don't think that's an excuse. The better and more ambitious you get, the more travel you are willing to do. I think what's missing is fair, even competition locally and regionally, the next 3 steps up from apa