Another Farorate thread

[justadub]

I watch the Fargo 644 that plays in our room, and I rarely see him B&R. Yes, sometimes, but not at the frequency mentioned here. I do need to pay closer attention to his matches when I can, he's fun to watch (and a nice guy).

We are playing on 9' Diamonds, so maybe that's part of it

 

[Justaneng]

All right guys. I’ll make this easier for you to comprehend.
If a 700 is a favorite to beat the pro ghost. That means they actually run out over 50% of the time. It’s simple as that. Where is your argument now? The only argument you can make is to beat the pro ghost they don’t have to make a ball on break. so if the 700 is twice as good as a 600 a 600 should break and run better than 25% of the time. And a 600 being twice as good as a 500 puts the 500 at a 12.5% B&R.

My normal ghost race is 4 to 7. Ghost wins. And I usually make a ball on the break and only take ball in hand 50% of the time. So two out of 11 racks, I break and run on avg without moving the CB. And that’s about the same rate that I break and run in the tournaments I play in- 18%ish normally. Maybe some of you need to be able to translate your races against the ghost onto the table when you’re actually playing somebody like I do. That’s what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to play as good as you practice.

The ghost starts with BIH. Fedor Gorst played against the pool “God” and lost….at his home practice table. So he had a BnR % of <50%, but he made a game of it as a Fargo 840+, so let’s say an 800 is 50/50 to BnR on a familiar table (so I’m already being conservative).

Just following the 2:1 ratio for 100 Fargo gap would make a 700 about a 25% chance, a 600 about 12.5%, a 500 about 6.25%…..

This is going on the all out offensive - percentages are going to lower in competition when push outs and safeties are better options even without considering unfamiliar tables and nerves.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

The ghost starts with BIH. Fedor Gorst played against the pool “God” and lost….at his home practice table. So he had a BnR % of <50%, but he made a game of it as a Fargo 840+, so let’s say an 800 is 50/50 to BnR on a familiar table (so I’m already being conservative).

Just following the 2:1 ratio for 100 Fargo gap would make a 700 about a 25% chance, a 600 about 12.5%, a 500 about 6.25%…..

This is going on the all out offensive - percentages are going to lower in competition when push outs and safeties are better options even without considering unfamiliar tables and nerves.

no people are already telling me in this thread that strategic play didn’t bring down the break and run percentages in high level tournaments. Some said it did some said it didn’t. The people here are nuts. I tried to tell them some of the players probably had 40% break and run percentages during the tournaments. They don’t believe me. They want to use the average of 28% of all professional players playing as an arguing point. That’s just the avg of everybody. Not everybody’s got a killer offense and not everybody’s got a killer defense.

I mean, if I really do go over to that super billiard expo like I’ve been trying to get over to and end up with a 25% break and run percentage in the pro event. They are still not gonna believe that my average is 18%. I know some fool on here they’re gonna be like oh he just got lucky.

Hey man, it’s not my fault if youre a 600 fargorate in my offense is better than yours at 478. I’ll bet your defense is killer. But Maybe you should practice your shot making more.

Pool is just like anything. Just because I could hit a baseball 500 feet regularly off a 90mph pitch doesn’t make me a professional baseball player. It just means that I could hit the shit out of the ball better than a lot of pros. Doesn’t mean I can field balls. I mean I’ll probably be able to field balls to a point if I can hit that far but It doesn’t make me automatically field like a pro. My throwing aim probably isn’t as precise either. that’s all I’m saying pool is no different

 

[9BallKY]

The ghost starts with BIH. Fedor Gorst played against the pool “God” and lost….at his home practice table. So he had a BnR % of <50%, but he made a game of it as a Fargo 840+, so let’s say an 800 is 50/50 to BnR on a familiar table (so I’m already being conservative).

Just following the 2:1 ratio for 100 Fargo gap would make a 700 about a 25% chance, a 600 about 12.5%, a 500 about 6.25%…..

This is going on the all out offensive - percentages are going to lower in competition when push outs and safeties are better options even without considering unfamiliar tables and nerves.

Exactly a 700 player is not favorite to beat the pro ghost. They can but I definitely wouldn’t say they are the favorite.

 

[9BallKY]

My normal ghost race is 4 to 7. Ghost wins. And I usually make a ball on the break and only take ball in hand 50% of the time. So two out of 11 racks, I break and run on avg without moving the CB. And that’s about the same rate that I break and run in the tournaments I play in- 18%ish normally.

So you can break and run 2 but with bih you can only get 2 more?

You might want to check your koolaid it might be a little to strong.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

So you can break and run 2 but with bih you can only get 2 more?

You might want to check your koolaid it might be a little to strong.

Yep. How do you not understand? I take ball in hand about 50% of the time playing the ghost. What’s the point of taking ball in hand when you have a shot on the first ball off the break? When I scratch on the break or there is no shot on the first ball just like most people playing the ghost I take ball in hand. I’ve said this already. I practice my breaks a lot and I don’t get hooked too bad on 9 foot table off the break usually. I break to have a shot on the first ball. On occasion I’ll move the CB over cause I don’t like the shot at the first ball. But at least 50% of the time I have a shot on the first ball and no reason to take BIH. In order to run a rack you have to make nine balls in a row. I make nine balls in a row four out of 11 times usually. All taking ball in hand does is make the first shots easier.

You know KY. I’m not new to this game. I used to be a lot better than I am now. Even though my Fargorate says what it says when I hit my gear I’ll play any 650 even. Sometimes I’ll even roast them. I just have a high gear man. That’s all. And I don’t like playing nine ball. I like 8 ball. I’m a lot better at making balls than shaping balls.

There’s even a 670 at the hall that likes to watch me play. I said it before I play a little different than a lot of people . He won’t even give me a spot in a race to 30. Because when I’m on, I’m on.

All in all Fargorate has nothing to do with break and run percentages anyway. All it says is you’re probably gonna win so many games. so I’ll make 9 balls 4 times out of 11 times and average three balls the other seven times to the table. Whats that like a five ball per turn avg? Where as a 600 might make seven balls per time at the table, but still lose to the ghost with the same score of 4-7.

I’ve said this before every night I practice if it’s like a three hour session I’ll throw up at least one two pack. If I’m playing eight ball, I might throw up a few two packs. Every once in a while, I’ll get a three pack. so if you related Fargo rate to my break and run percentage, I’d be a 600 but I’m not. Because I don’t win enough games total.

I’m an APA 7/7 and if you compare my B&Rs to most of the lower SL 7/9’s we are about the same listed percentage. Obviously there’s some really good seven nines that have a lot more but I’m saying your average lower level 7/9 will be right around the same numbers as mine. Some are worse.

 

[DeadStick]

I mean, if I really do go over to that super billiard expo like I’ve been trying to get over to and end up with a 25% break and run percentage in the pro event. They are still not gonna believe that my average is 18%. I know some fool on here they’re gonna be like oh he just got lucky.

All depends on how many breaks you get there. If you get 30 or more breaks and run 25% or more of them, that would be significant. But if you go 2 and out and get only 8 breaks (I don’t know how long the races will be, guessing 7 here) and run 2 of them, that’s not enough to say you average 25%.

Statistics are hard for some people. You can flip a coin 3 times and you will get all heads or all tails about 25% of the time. Flip a coin 100 times, and the result will be close to 50-50 every time.

You’re likely remembering only your best performances and calling it your average. That’s human nature. But variance in pool performance and luck of the layout plays a big role.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

So you can break and run 2 but with bih you can only get 2 more?

You might want to check your koolaid it might be a little to strong.

How much have you practiced your break KY? I have 4 different breaks that I use that I can consistently get a ball in, a nice spread, and a shot at the 1. Most people I see stick to one break. Or maybe move over the CB and inch or 2. I have four. All hitting the one ball in different spots from different spots on the table. Do you know the break to make the 1 ball in the top corner? It really only works on an 9 footer. There’s another one to make the one ball in the bottom corner but that’s an ugly looking break typically. It’s good if you’re playing someone a lot better than you though because it’s an ugly table. And that’s only from the left side. I haven’t even thought about switching to the right side . Thats another 4 breaks. That’s how much I’ve practiced my breaking. And it pays dividends in the long run. And I don’t stick to one either. If one’s working really good, I’ll stick to it but in a match I typically use at least two different ones. Sometimes I’ll do it just for a different layout to make it more interesting.

All depends on how many breaks you get there. If you get 30 or more breaks and run 25% or more of them, that would be significant. But if you go 2 and out and get only 8 breaks (I don’t know how long the races will be, guessing 7 here) and run 2 of them, that’s not enough to say you average 25%.

Statistics are hard for some people. You can flip a coin 3 times and you will get all heads or all tails about 25% of the time. Flip a coin 100 times, and the result will be close to 50-50 every time.

You’re likely remembering only your best performances and calling it your average. That’s human nature. But variance in pool performance and luck of the layout is high

Races to 11. Basin my numbers off of the tournaments I play when I try my hardest. Like APA regionals and Vegas singles, and fargorated tournaments. Not off league play. I literally ran a 40% ERO not B&R percentage last year for the APA MVP tournament, APA regionals, and Vegas singles. It was a whole month long. I was just tearing the shit out of the pool table. And I had to keep track of it cause I was playing so damn good. Then it all went downhill when I got vertigo 2nd day in Vegas. I haven’t had that good of a game since. Had to go to the ER and everything when I got back. Thought I had a stroke! I felt like everything got taken away, so I stopped practicing. But now I’m almost back there.

 

[9BallKY]

How much have you practiced your break KY? I have 4 different breaks that I use that I can consistently get a ball in, a nice spread, and a shot at the 1. Most people I see stick to one break. Or maybe move over the CB and inch or 2. I have four. All hitting the one ball in different spots from different spots on the table. Do you know the break to make the 1 ball in the top corner? It really only works on an 9 footer. There’s another one to make the one ball in the bottom corner but that’s an ugly looking break typically. It’s good if you’re playing someone a lot better than you though because it’s an ugly table. And that’s only from the left side. I haven’t even thought about switching to the right side . Thats another 4 breaks. That’s how much I’ve practiced my breaking. And it pays dividends in the long run. And I don’t stick to one either. If one’s working really good, I’ll stick to it but in a match I use at least two different ones. Sometimes I’ll do it just for a different layout to make it more interesting.

Races to 11. Basin my numbers off of the tournaments I play when I try my hardest. Like APA regionals and Vegas singles, and fargorated tournaments. Not off league play. I literally ran a 40% ERO not B&R percentage last year for the APA MVP tournament, APA regionals, and Vegas singles. It was a whole month lawn. I was just tearing the shit out of the pool table. Then it all went downhill when I got vertigo in Vegas. I haven’t had that good of a game since. Had to go to the ER and everything when I got back. Thought I had a stroke!

Your right your just an awesome player I can’t believe you haven’t won one of the Matchroom majors yet.

If I was you I would go to the bank and borrow all the money I could and I would drive to KY and I would find this guy and basically steal all his money because as stupid as he is there is no way he could compete with you.

 

[DeadStick]

Your right your just an awesome player I can’t believe you haven’t won one of the Matchroom majors yet.

If I was you I would go to the bank and borrow all the money I could and I would drive to KY and I would find this guy and basically steal all his money because as stupid as he is there is no way he could compete with you.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Your right your just an awesome player I can’t believe you haven’t won one of the Matchroom majors yet.

If I was you I would go to the bank and borrow all the money I could and I would drive to KY and I would find this guy and basically steal all his money because as stupid as he is there is no way he could compete with you.

KY all I’m saying is a big part of being able to run out in 9 ball is the break. If you don’t make a ball, there’s zero chance to run out. If you don’t have a shot at the first ball, there’s zero chance to run out.

Those are two of the main reasons a lot of players don’t break then run out more often. So you put a 600 and a 500 head to head in a break and run battle to 100. The 500 has a killer break. The 600 does not have very good break. So that being said, the 500 actually gets double the chances off the break to run out. Who is your money on to get to 100 first? The 600 is supposedly twice as good but with half the chances to run out. It’s gonna take both the same amount of racks to get to 100. And both will have the same break and run percentage when all is said and done. All because of the break. But if you play the games out, the 600 is going to win twice as many. B&R % and fargorate are two different things.

Fargorate might be able to predict someone’s B&R % pretty good but there are always exceptions out there. Because no 2 players are exactly the same.

 

[DeadStick]

KY all I’m saying is a big part of being able to run out in 9 ball is the break. If you don’t make a ball, there’s zero chance to run out. If you don’t have a shot at the first ball, there’s zero chance to run out.

Those are two of the main reasons a lot of players don’t break then run out more often. So you put a 600 and a 500 head to head in a break and run battle to 100. The 500 has a killer break. The 600 does not have very good break. So that being said, the 500 actually gets double the chances off the break to run out. Who is your money on to get to 100 first? The 600 is supposedly twice as good but with half the chances to run out. It’s gonna take both the same amount of racks to get to 100. And both will have the same break and run percentage when all is said and done. All because of the break. But if you play the games out, the 600 is going to win twice as many. B&R % and fargorate are two different things.

Fargorate might be able to predict someone’s B&R % pretty good but there are always exceptions out there. Because no 2 players are exactly the same.

You’re explaining things to a 700 level player.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Always guys. I just don’t see why you can’t except the fact that someone at my listed speed can have a better offense than some 600 pluses.

Let’s have a pissing contest then I guess!

I mean can a 500 fargorate beat the 9 ball ghost? I beat it occasionally. I’d like you guys to chime in right now with opinions on that one. Because it’ll just show how dumb you are when I post a video of me beating the ghost. Then what it gonna be? “Well youre obviously not a 500” and All Im gonna say is “no shit! Glad it finally computed!”

Sorry that’s gonna be in my head. What I’m really gonna tell you guys is “no I’m a 480 because that’s what it lists at. That’s what it is. And I guess you guys maybe just aren’t 600s like you think if you can’t keep up with that. Lol

 

[nine_ball6970]

KY all I’m saying is a big part of being able to run out in 9 ball is the break. If you don’t make a ball, there’s zero chance to run out. If you don’t have a shot at the first ball, there’s zero chance to run out.

Those are two of the main reasons a lot of players don’t break then run out more often. So you put a 600 and a 500 head to head in a break and run battle to 100. The 500 has a killer break. The 600 does not have very good break. So that being said, the 500 actually gets double the chances off the break to run out. Who is your money on to get to 100 first? The 600 is supposedly twice as good but with half the chances to run out. It’s gonna take both the same amount of racks to get to 100. And both will have the same break and run percentage when all is said and done. All because of the break. But if you play the games out, the 600 is going to win twice as many. B&R % and fargorate are two different things.

Fargorate might be able to predict someone’s B&R % pretty good but there are always exceptions out there. Because no 2 players are exactly the same.

The 500 would need to average 4 or 5 balls on the break to run as many as the 600. It seems like you don't know what the difference between a 500 and 600 is after the break.

 

[9BallKY]

KY all I’m saying is a big part of being able to run out in 9 ball is the break. If you don’t make a ball, there’s zero chance to run out. If you don’t have a shot at the first ball, there’s zero chance to run out.

Those are two of the main reasons a lot of players don’t break then run out more often. So you put a 600 and a 500 head to head in a break and run battle to 100. The 500 has a killer break. The 600 does not have very good break. So that being said, the 500 actually gets double the chances off the break to run out. Who is your money on to get to 100 first? The 600 is supposedly twice as good but with half the chances to run out. It’s gonna take both the same amount of racks to get to 100. And both will have the same break and run percentage when all is said and done. All because of the break. But if you play the games out, the 600 is going to win twice as many. B&R % and fargorate are two different things.

Fargorate might be able to predict someone’s B&R % pretty good but there are always exceptions out there. Because no 2 players are exactly the same.

Are you kin to justnum? You just keep telling yourself this shit. It doesn’t matter how many chances a player gets to break and run if they can’t stick their finger up their ass with both hands.

Just go to the ghost challenge thread and show us a video of you breaking and running 20% of the racks with your monstrous break. We need some entertainment.

Just reading your post has hurt my game. I gotta go practice some I may not even be able to beat the ghost tomorrow after you have showed all of us how stupid we are.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

The 500 would need to average 4 or 5 balls on the break to run as many as the 600. It seems like you don't know what the difference between a 500 and 600 is after the break.

Giving both players the same layout with the same opening shot the 600 will run out twice as much.

Are you not following though? In my scenario The 500 has a killer break. So makes a ball with a shot on the first ball let’s say 60% of the time. The 600 has a crappy break and only makes a ball with a shot on the first ball 30% of the time. In order to break and run you have to make a ball on the break.
With twice as many chances to run out the 500 should run out just as many times as the 600. So every 10 racks broken the 600 only has 3 good attempts to run out but the 500 gets 6 good tries. Therefore every 10 racks they should stay even on break and runs

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Are you kin to justnum? You just keep telling yourself this shit. It doesn’t matter how many chances a player gets to break and run if they can’t stick their finger up their ass with both hands.

Just go to the ghost challenge thread and show us a video of you breaking and running 20% of the racks with your monstrous break. We need some entertainment.

Just reading your post has hurt my game. I gotta go practice some I may not even be able to beat the ghost tomorrow after you have showed all of us how stupid we are.

I can just record one of my practice sessions and you can count them yourself.

Sorry, sorry got a little heated my bad. Have a good practice session Kentucky. I just don’t understand why I have to argue about the truth all the time.

 

[9BallKY]

Always guys. I just don’t see why you can’t except the fact that someone at my listed speed can have a better offense than some 600 pluses.

Let’s have a pissing contest then I guess!

I mean can a 500 fargorate beat the 9 ball ghost? I beat it occasionally. I’d like you guys to chime in right now with opinions on that one. Because it’ll just show how dumb you are when I post a video of me beating the ghost. Then what it gonna be? “Well youre obviously not a 500” and All Im gonna say is “no shit! Glad it finally computed!”

Sorry that’s gonna be in my head. What I’m really gonna tell you guys is “no I’m a 480 because that’s what it lists at. That’s what it is. And I guess you guys maybe just aren’t 600s like you think if you can’t keep up with that. Lolpost that video of you beating the 9 ball ghost on a 9ft Diamond. We will be waiting.

Always guys. I just don’t see why you can’t except the fact that someone at my listed speed can have a better offense than some 600 pluses.

Let’s have a pissing contest then I guess!

I mean can a 500 fargorate beat the 9 ball ghost? I beat it occasionally. I’d like you guys to chime in right now with opinions on that one. Because it’ll just show how dumb you are when I post a video of me beating the ghost. Then what it gonna be? “Well youre obviously not a 500” and All Im gonna say is “no shit! Glad it finally computed!”

Sorry that’s gonna be in my head. What I’m really gonna tell you guys is “no I’m a 480 because that’s what it lists at. That’s what it is. And I guess you guys maybe just aren’t 600s like you think if you can’t keep up with that. Lol

You just go ahead and post that video of you beating the 9 ball ghost on a 9 ft Diamond. We will be watching for it. It’s March 9 th let’s see how long it takes.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

On a better note guys I had a 680 that was gonna give me 10 games to 30 in a $500 fight night. He asked 2 650’s if they’d back him and they said they prefer to bet on me. So. At least that felt good. At least I get a little recognition in my own town.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

You just go ahead and post that video of you beating the 9 ball ghost on a 9 ft Diamond. We will be watching for it. It’s March 9 th let’s see how long it takes.

I don’t have a 9 foot diamond to play on I have my 9 foot Brunswick with shimmed pockets. I can do a 10 ball ghost challenge on a seven foot diamond with tournament pockets if you’d like. Even though the cloth on those is garbage.