The kind of equipment being played on would affect the percentage some. A couple of those stats were from Matchroom events with the 9 on the spot and break from the box. However 20% still seems high for a middle of the road amateur.
Another Farorate thread
- Thread starter Willowbrook Wolfy
- Start date
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
You guys are going off of break and run percentages on high-level tournaments. They arent always gonna be super consistent. I think chili mentioned that sometimes break and run isn’t in your best interest because you might have to take a low percentage shot to get there. I run out a lot more on a 9 foot table with simonis cloth in nine ball than I do on the 7ft diamonds with championship shit on them at the bar I play at. Partially because I’ve spent hours and hours practicing my break on a 9 foot table. I’d much rather play on a nine footer any day of the week.
But at the same time I posted on my regional outing. So in regionals. I broke at most 10 times in 2 matches and out of those 10 ran out twice during the regional play. With a 9 on the break to add to it. That’s 20% run-out percentage last time I checked. And normally about what I run out at. And sometimes it’s higher than that in 8 ball because I’m better at 8 ball. Last fargorate tournament I played I played three people race to fives alternating breaks. In 3 matches ran out twice. Only won 4 games, but I ran out two of them. And that was 10 ball. Once again around 20% break and run.
Whether y’all like it or not, Those are my stats. Doesn’t matter if my Fargorate is low.
But at the same time I posted on my regional outing. So in regionals. I broke at most 10 times in 2 matches and out of those 10 ran out twice during the regional play. With a 9 on the break to add to it. That’s 20% run-out percentage last time I checked. And normally about what I run out at. And sometimes it’s higher than that in 8 ball because I’m better at 8 ball. Last fargorate tournament I played I played three people race to fives alternating breaks. In 3 matches ran out twice. Only won 4 games, but I ran out two of them. And that was 10 ball. Once again around 20% break and run.
Whether y’all like it or not, Those are my stats. Doesn’t matter if my Fargorate is low.
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Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Also I’ve stated before I break and run at least one rack almost every single tournament I play in. Whether I win or lose is a different story, but I got at least one break and run. Sorry, but I have a really good offense I can’t help it.
I just don’t understand though guys how anybody can question it anyway. Over and over I post all my break and run patches from APA like when I had 8 in the first day in Vegas last time yet people can’t wrap their head around it. I’ve even posted the scoresheets a few times. I mean 8 break and runs in the first day if I played two more days right there without another break and run after the first day is probably around 20% break and run percentage total.
I just don’t understand though guys how anybody can question it anyway. Over and over I post all my break and run patches from APA like when I had 8 in the first day in Vegas last time yet people can’t wrap their head around it. I’ve even posted the scoresheets a few times. I mean 8 break and runs in the first day if I played two more days right there without another break and run after the first day is probably around 20% break and run percentage total.
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Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Won’t he go up if 75% of his games are against me? If he stops playing anything fargorated 75% of his games are always going to be against whatever my fargorate is at the time of calculation. So like if you play only one tournament as a 500. You play 3 people. You will have a rating after. Let’s say 490. Then you don’t play anymore for a year. In that year all 3 of your opponents from that days tourney rates go up yours will also. That’s exactly how it works. Now instead of you winning 3 games against a 520 4 against another 500 and 3 against a 480 you won 3 against a 600 4 against a 580 and 3 against a 525. Your rate should be over 500 now.
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So you think that pro players aren’t super consistent? You think they play safe just for the hell of it? They play safe when it’s the best percentage. If they think they can run out they will.
Also if you played in a tournament 3 races to 5 and you only won 4 games that’s not even enough games to win one set so it had to be a triple elimination tournament.
Admitting you only won 4 games and lost 15 might be why your Fargo is low. It’s also a good indicator that 20% BnR isn’t realistic. Anyone who can break and run 20% of the time can play well enough to win some of the other games when they get to the table.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
To answer the OP, yes you can do that.
They don't like it but it happens a lot.
The system is full of duplicates where it's the same player but a different ID number. If it comes to their attention they will merge them but they don't go looking. Most of these are unintentional but it can also be done intentionally.
You just start a new player and abandon the old one. It says CSI will review it when you create a new player in LMS but they really don't seem to or there wouldn't be so many duplicates that need merging.
Of course a high profile player couldn't fly under the radar but most others will.
They don't like it but it happens a lot.
The system is full of duplicates where it's the same player but a different ID number. If it comes to their attention they will merge them but they don't go looking. Most of these are unintentional but it can also be done intentionally.
You just start a new player and abandon the old one. It says CSI will review it when you create a new player in LMS but they really don't seem to or there wouldn't be so many duplicates that need merging.
Of course a high profile player couldn't fly under the radar but most others will.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
No, the losers bracket was race to 3. So the first guy lost to was 5-1. That was 3 breaks each. The only one I won was a break-in run. Then the next guy played I beat him 3 to 2 with a break and run and then the third guy I lost 3-0. so at most, I broke 5 times in those 2 matches and 8 times total.
Sorry, I thought I had edited it because I forgot that the back half losers bracket was races to three. I can actually pull up the bracket and show you, but I don’t feel like going through the trouble. I will if you still doubt it, but it’s not gonna show that they were break and runs. I’m just saying tournaments. I’m 20% break and run. It’s just my average. Like I said. It Doesn’t mean I win. It just means that I get a lot of break and runs. If a pro break and runs 40% at one tournament and then 20% at the next they’re still at a 30% break and run percentage overall between the 2 tournaments.
There are times that pros don’t break and run it doesn’t mean they don’t have a higher percentage then shown. you’re going off the average between all players. Some of those players probably were like a 30 or 40% break and run throughout the tournament.
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Yes I’m going off an average of the best players in the world over 4 different tournaments they averaged 28% BnR. If 750 plus Fargo only average 28% how can a 500 Fargo player average 20%?
If you can average 20% BnR why can’t you run out and win some of the other games when your opponent misses or doesn’t get safe? Those pros win a lot of games where they don’t break and run.
Or just record a video of you breaking and running 20% of the time and post it in the ghost challenge thread.
My Fargo is low and I have no clue what my BnR % is and I really don’t care. My Fargo doesn’t help me beat anyone, when I draw a player in a tournament I have to win to advance regard less of what either one of our ratings are.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Nice. I just played a fucking 650 for some cash. Races to 3. He won the first two sets 3-1 and 3-2. Then I won the third set finishing with a break and run. 3 -2. On top of the scores I had the second set if not for table roll. We had to switch tables and I hit one soft down the rail which rolled out and hit the nip. I even demonstrated after for my opponent. The ball going down the rail literally moved out an inch within last 3 inches to the pocket. We were having a blast. I still payed him but I like to play fair game and It was a crazy roll that I reenacted in case he didn’t see it.
The bar closed at Hill Hill on our final set. Race to 5. So total games against a 650 for cash 9 wins 12 losses next break being mine. Plus hill/hill for double what I was down. That a key point here also.
11breakes. 1B&r. Tournament 10 breaks. So I was still 5% tonight which was a bad day in that department( I was using my new LD shaft btw that I’ve never used before). I just don’t think some you guys get it. I still have the mentality you never play your best game unless you have to. That’s the mentality from 20 years ago, when I used to Play constantly. And that’s the mentality I keep to this day. Anyone not worth my time playing there’s automatic friend mode when it comes to my shooting. I could really care less if I beat a 400. They arent worth my time..
im sorry if I offend anyone here but I can’t even understand how anyone can be that bad after putting in some playing time. I was better than that at 12yrs old. Plus I took 20 years off and am better than that. Some of these players have played league for 10 years and are still 3’s and 4’s. It makes no sense to me. Just like in baseball. I’ve thrown 70-80 miles per hour since I was in high school. How can people only throw 40? If you’ve never experienced sucking in something it’s really hard to understand it. I don’t mean that in the bad way everybody can get better, but some people do suck. I’ve sucked at things too. Everyone has!
That’s life! I still believe everybody should not get a trophy. A trophies not meant to be given, it’s meant to be earned. Look it up if you don’t believe me.
Anyway. my rate should go up a little bit from today because in the initial tournament I went five and five against 550’s and 1-4 against a 620..
Not the best against the 620 but at least I got a game. And I destroyed 3 400’s 9-2. Keeping my fingers crossed to go up 5-10 points with the low robustness.
And btw I didn’t have one break and run during tournament play today. I am legitimately telling the truth when I tell you about break and runs. You know what. who’s gonna be super Billard expo? I’d like to meet some of you motherfuckers. I’m an honest guy man and feel like I get a bad rap sometimes here. I really do tell the trith 9 times out of ten. I said it I don’t always win. But my f avorite thing to do is break and run. Sometimes I don’t care about anything but breaking and running on league day. It’s more important to me than winning. When I’ve missed two or three easy break and runs in a match I’ll literally give up on my match on APA day. I just hold myself to a high standard. No excuse for not running out an easy table. When you do it multiple times in a match. Why even play?
Plus It just seems like playing lower rank players has less value in your rating than playing higher players. That is my problem with fargorate.
What I’m saying is if I’m 10-1 against people that are 400’s seems to boost my fargorate score a lot less then if I get seven games in a race to 10 against a 700. Winning 10 to one against 400 should put you in the 620+ range if it was calculated correctly. Just seems like fargorate is geared More towards higher level opponents sometimes.
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With 5% BnR yesterday you would need 35% BnR today to get an average of 20%. Not going to happen.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
I won 38 out of 40 of the last league games and moved from a 601 to a 603. Then I lost 2 game out of 5 in one night and was back to a 601. If you don't have the right players to play you have a ceiling. Get used to it.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
I am a solid 600 fargo and my BR % is about 12%
Yet he claims to BnR at 20% while admitting his Fargo is 100 points below yours. He is even willing to put money on it. Maybe he can but to me the math just doesn’t add up.
I’ll admit idk what the average BnR % would be for a 500 speed player but I’ve played a lot of pool a lot of different places. I’ve played players with 800+ Fargo all the way down to beginner level and it just don’t seem logical to me. However I’m not a very good player so maybe my judgement is very good either.
I can’t even do that in my dreamsWhen I'm play alone and nobody is watching, I can B&R nearly 100% of the time
....then I wake up
"That is my problem with fargorate. What I’m saying is if I’m 10-1 against people that are 400’s seems to boost my fargorate score a lot less then if I get seven games in a race to 10 against a 700."
A 500 FR player going 10-1 or better against a 400 is roughly twice as likely as that same player going 7-10 or better against a 700. Because the second performance is more surprising, it moves the needle more. Therefore not a problem.
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Pretty much the same here. Slightly higher fr but my B&R on diamond bar box 9ball is about 15% due to an inconsistent break.
On my 9' Diamond, it's about 20%. That is the only place it's 20% however. It's my happy place where I'm most comfortable.
It's more like 10% on the 9' away from home. I need to get out more.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
One thing I do know for sure about fargorate is that the math works. But it only works to predict the likely outcome.
When the real outcome is logged and if it varies from what was expected, fargorates move. It's a closed loop.
500 fargos do not break and run one in five racks at home or in competition. One day maybe but not every day.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
All right guys. I’ll make this easier for you to comprehend.
If a 700 is a favorite to beat the pro ghost. That means they actually run out over 50% of the time. It’s simple as that. Where is your argument now? The only argument you can make is to beat the pro ghost they don’t have to make a ball on break. so if the 700 is twice as good as a 600 a 600 should break and run better than 25% of the time. And a 600 being twice as good as a 500 puts the 500 at a 12.5% B&R.
So why doesn’t that same 700 B&R 50% in tournaments? Your guess is as good as mine on that one. But maybe what I say at the end here will make it make more sense.
My normal ghost race is 4 to 7. Ghost wins. And I usually make a ball on the break and only take ball in hand 50% of the time. So two out of 11 racks, I break and run on avg without moving the CB. And that’s about the same rate that I break and run in the tournaments I play in- 18%ish normally. Maybe some of you need to be able to translate your races against the ghost onto the table when you’re actually playing somebody like I do. That’s what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to play as good as you practice.
At my level, I can still go out there and play full offense without any worries. So that’s why it does usually translate onto the table. I’m not pulling shots for a better strategy to try to win games. I’m playing my best to win. And it’s fun to run tables.
If a 700 is a favorite to beat the pro ghost. That means they actually run out over 50% of the time. It’s simple as that. Where is your argument now? The only argument you can make is to beat the pro ghost they don’t have to make a ball on break. so if the 700 is twice as good as a 600 a 600 should break and run better than 25% of the time. And a 600 being twice as good as a 500 puts the 500 at a 12.5% B&R.
So why doesn’t that same 700 B&R 50% in tournaments? Your guess is as good as mine on that one. But maybe what I say at the end here will make it make more sense.
My normal ghost race is 4 to 7. Ghost wins. And I usually make a ball on the break and only take ball in hand 50% of the time. So two out of 11 racks, I break and run on avg without moving the CB. And that’s about the same rate that I break and run in the tournaments I play in- 18%ish normally. Maybe some of you need to be able to translate your races against the ghost onto the table when you’re actually playing somebody like I do. That’s what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to play as good as you practice.
At my level, I can still go out there and play full offense without any worries. So that’s why it does usually translate onto the table. I’m not pulling shots for a better strategy to try to win games. I’m playing my best to win. And it’s fun to run tables.
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