Another rules question

BamaFan

New member
I have a scoring question that I haven’t been able to answer from the rule book that I have, which I think is the latest. The shooter makes a ball and scratches. I think that he must spot the OB and subtract one point from his total score, not the score for the rack. If his total score is zero, he must set his total score to 99. The opponent gets BIH behind the head string. Correct?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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That's how it works. The actual rules do not specify a rack score, but keeping the rack score is the best way to keep the score straight if you don't record each inning.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a scoring question that I haven’t been able to answer from the rule book that I have, which I think is the latest. The shooter makes a ball and scratches. I think that he must spot the OB and subtract one point from his total score, not the score for the rack. If his total score is zero, he must set his total score to 99. The opponent gets BIH behind the head string. Correct?
Yes, that’s the way I’ve always done it, then when there is only 1 ball left on the table and you tally up the score, the rack score for both players always totals 14. Essentially the 99 on the total score dial stands for -1, 98 would be -2, etc.
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
That's how it works. The actual rules do not specify a rack score, but keeping the rack score is the best way to keep the score straight if you don't record each inning.
So the ball potted on the scratch spots, and the player gets penalized one point but this puts the ball count on the table out of sync with the score right?

So if after the opening break, I sink three balls. There are twelve left on the table and the score is 3-0. I sink another ball and scratch. That ball is spotted, so there are twelve balls on the table but the score is now 2-0?
 

Hard Knock Cues

Well-known member
So the ball potted on the scratch spots, and the player gets penalized one point but this puts the ball count on the table out of sync with the score right?

So if after the opening break, I sink three balls. There are twelve left on the table and the score is 3-0. I sink another ball and scratch. That ball is spotted, so there are twelve balls on the table but the score is now 2-0?
More like the score is 3-0 and you owe one after the rack is over. You can mark the owe at the high end of the beads or roll your over all score counter back to 99 . You always want to keep the rack score separate . The first rack would be the only time you would need to owe one unless you don't have any points going into the next rack(s). That's the we keep track of it anyway.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Here's a pic of the table foot, with counters.
One player uses the right-side, opponent left side.

Your running total is always on the right side of your two scoring wheels.

Scratches are only deducted from the R/S counters.
Left side are each rack balls made, at the end of each rack, they are added to the right side count.
Anytime there is a scratch, it's ONLY subtracted from the Right Side.

In the first rack if there are scratches, the total balls made will not Equal 14. But if you add in the scratch count it will/has too.
In the second rack, all scratches are deducted from the right-side counters.
 

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Bob Jewett

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So if after the opening break, I sink three balls. There are twelve left on the table and the score is 3-0. I sink another ball and scratch. That ball is spotted, so there are twelve balls on the table but the score is now 2-0?
Your total score, yes, but each player has two scores in the scoring we're talking about.

The count/score for the current rack is kept separate from the main score. Your rack score is 3 and your main score is -1 or 99. The total of the two scores is your current real score.

The two rack scores plus the balls on the table always add to 15.

This is with score wheels. With beads it's a little different and generally more clear.
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
With beads it's a little different and generally more clear.
Not for me. I never realized that the score counters were for rack score and total score. I have beads, what's the best way to keep the score straight with those? I guess I could use coins under the cushion for the rack score and move the bread at the end of each rack.

I'm going to have to track down the old guy at the pool hall to shoot some straight pool, these little things are good to learn.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The traditional bead string has 50 beads on each side of a fixture that divides the player’s scores. Every 10th bead is black (or is it 5, and 10 with a # flag?…can’t remember/been too long), and the ones between are a lighter color. You slide your 1st rack score beads at the low # end (away from the mass) toward the divider, and the minus/owed ones away from the mass at the other end. After the new rack begins, you subtract the owed score from your previous rack score (pushing the owed beads back to the high end mass), which now becomes your total (pushed against the dividing fixture), and you leave a space to start your new rack score. At the end of every rack you push that score count against the total. After the score passes 50, you slide all the beads away from the divider and continue the count from there (you have to remember how many 50s you’ve scored in a high # game). Your opponent’s string is a mirror image # count from the dividing fixture. Not rocket science.
 
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Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I don't trust beads, too easy to move around when matching up. Also, in many rooms I've run, when the liquor gets flowing the wooden counters get the worst of it.
 
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Hard Knock Cues

Well-known member
I don't trust beads, too easy to move around when matching up. Also, in many rooms I've run, when the liquor gets flowing the wooden counters get the worst of it.
Using the beads get easier the more you do it. You always leave space between the rack your counting/playing and at the end of the running count. what you and your opponent made should be 14 plus the last ball on the table=15. Now what we do to avoid confusion is the guy still shooting marks his and checks but doesn't slide the beads all the way down, the other guy double checks after racking of course and he pushes them down.

Now say you had 3 points in a rack get to the table and scratch, you slide one back from your running total to add to the 3 and then slide one of the original 3 back towards the high end. You still have 3 for the rack and have paid your penalty.

Hope that makes sense.
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
Using the beads get easier the more you do it. You always leave space between the rack your counting/playing and at the end of the running count. what you and your opponent made should be 14 plus the last ball on the table=15. Now what we do to avoid confusion is the guy still shooting marks his and checks but doesn't slide the beads all the way down, the other guy double checks after racking of course and he pushes them down.

Now say you had 3 points in a rack get to the table and scratch, you slide one back from your running total to add to the 3 and then slide one of the original 3 back towards the high end. You still have 3 for the rack and have paid your penalty.

Hope that makes sense.
I wish I'd known that before I installed my beads. I've got about a foot clear so it's still doable, but a little more space would be nice.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Using the beads get easier the more you do it. You always leave space between the rack your counting/playing and at the end of the running count. what you and your opponent made should be 14 plus the last ball on the table=15. Now what we do to avoid confusion is the guy still shooting marks his and checks but doesn't slide the beads all the way down, the other guy double checks after racking of course and he pushes them down.

Now say you had 3 points in a rack get to the table and scratch, you slide one back from your running total to add to the 3 and then slide one of the original 3 back towards the high end. You still have 3 for the rack and have paid your penalty.

Hope that makes sense.
I think it is also good procedure for the player racking to announce the scores after he slides the beads tight (or adjusts the thumbwheels, for that matter). If there has been any error, better to catch/discuss it early, rather than after the game has progressed.
 

JusticeNJ

Four Points/Steel Joints
Silver Member
I think this is an instance where keeping score with the beads helps visualize the right way to do it.

Edit: as many others have pointed out now that I read the thread
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
I think it is also good procedure for the player racking to announce the scores after he slides the beads tight
Yes. In volleyball and tennis, it's common to say "fifteen serving love". Some people aren't too keen on the procedures but when people know and follow them it makes communication clearer and easier.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
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Silver Member
I’ve found this video a good reference for scoring 14.1 with beads. ...

Well, kind of, except he said the right player scored 7 but he only put up 6 beads for the first rack.

The other way to score fouls at the start of a game is to make the score look like 49 or 48 for one or two points of foul. That way you don't have to do anything special for the first rack. When those 1 or 2 foul beads are scored, they are moved away from the end stop and hang loose as always for rack score beads.

He failed to tell you what to do when you get to 50 when playing to 100, for example. In that case your rack score may be at both ends of your string. When I get to exactly 50 at the end of the rack, I say "I'm at the corner." Or, "I'm around the corner the first time," if I get to 53 and we're going to 150.

He failed to point out a few tricks in using the beads. There are "special" beads every five that are the opposite color. Special bead through special bead is six beads. If you want to put up eight, it might: be normal special-special normal . That's one and six and one. Similarly if you take three special beads in what you move , that's 11. If your total before the rack score has three normal beads on the end (like 23, for example) and you want to score 14, that's one normal, special-special-special, two normal. That's 1+11+2 = 14 for a total of 37.

To score 10, you make end beads of the bunch you take look like the end of what's already scored, such as special+2 (27) and special+2 (37) to score 10 when you have 27 in already.

Also, when you are playing me and you want to count how many balls are left on the table to see what the rack total should be, for the love of Mosconi please do not do point-at-ball "1", point-at-ball "2", point-at-ball "3".... Instead count by threes (or fives when you get good).

3,6,9+1 = 10.

I hope you don't have any trouble grouping balls into threes. If you can't group balls by threes, you need to work on it.

After I count the balls on the table I will announce something like, "Five are missing." Then I make my rack score right to match the missing balls.

If you are keeping track of runs across racks, don't push the rack beads all the way over at the end of the rack. Leave a bead or two of space across racks. That way at the end of the run you might have 3+14+14+7 = run of 38.

And, if you feel your opponent is "hauling lumber" on you when he puts up the score, towards the end of the rack figure out the totals before the key ball is pocketed. The arithmetic is good for your brain.
 
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tomatoshooter

Well-known member
Well, kind of, except he said the right player scored 7 but he only up up 6 beads for the first rack.

The other way to score fouls at the start of a game is to make the score look like 49 or 48 for one or two points of foul. That way you don't have to do anything special for the first rack. When those 1 or 2 foul beads are scored, they are moved away from the end stop and hang loose as always for rack score beads.

He failed to tell you what to do when you get to 50 when playing to 100, for example. In that case your rack score may be at both ends of your string. When I get to exactly 50 at the end of the rack, I say "I'm at the corner." Or, "I'm around the corner the first time," if I get to 53 and we're going to 150.

He failed to point out a few tricks in using the beads. There are "special" beads every five that are the opposite color. Special bead through special bead is six beads. If you want to put up eight, it might: be normal special-special normal . That's one and six and one. Similarly if you take three special beads in what you move , that's 11. If your total before the rack score has three normal beads on the end (like 23, for example) and you want to score 14, that's one normal, special-special-special, two normal. That's 1+11+2 = 14 for a total of 37.

To score 10, you make end beads of the bunch you take look like the end of what's already scored, such as special+2 (27) and special+2 (37) to score 10 when you have 27 in already.

Also, when you are playing me and you want to count how many balls are left on the table to see what the rack total should be, for the love of Mosconi please do not do point-at-ball "1", point-at-ball "2", point-at-ball "3".... Instead count by threes (or fives when you get good).

3,6,9+1 = 10.

I hope you don't have any trouble grouping balls into threes. If you can't group balls by threes, you need to work on it.

After I count the balls on the table I will announce something like, "Five are missing." Then I make my rack score right to match the missing balls.

If you are keeping track of runs across racks, don't push the rack beads all the way over at the end of the rack. Leave a bead or two of space across racks. That way at the end of the run you might have 3+14+14+7 = run of 38.

And, if you feel your opponent is "hauling lumber" on you when he puts up the score, towards the end of the rack figure out the totals before the key ball is pocketed. The arithmetic is good for your brain.
I'm going to have to read that after a good night's rest. This would have made better matj word problems than "if Johnny has six oranges and twelve apples...

"If Billy spots Danny ten points and runs two racks..."
 
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