Antique(rebuilt) vs Modern table

ugotactionTX

ugotactionTX

I'm in dead rack!
Silver Member
I have the chance to purchase a very nice but very old Brunswick Madison (mid 'teens) 9ft'er. It is about 1/2 way through a re-finish (not my doing) but still needs a good amount of work. Assuming new cloth, new rubber, tight pockets, and new balls, how do you think it should play. I have heard the argument regarding new vs old equipment and how it affected play, but what about the table itself? It seems that the HUGE frame and
1 1/2 slate would create a very solid table not to mention the killer rosewood rail tops and 1/4 sawn mahogany frame

Does anyone have experience on a refinished/rebuilt table? I do love the
nostalgic feel of an antique table but I've spent a lot of time on GC's and Diamonds among others.

Do you think I will be happy with the "play" of this table assuming everything is set up well?

Thanks for your input!
 
It's going to depend a lot on the condition of the slate and the skill of the installer. I have a Madison snooker table. I spent a lot of time refinishing the table and wanted to make sure that it was installed correctly. When installation day arrived, it was one nightmare after another. The guy doing the installation was in a hurry and had to do both tables, so he didn't spend the time necessary to do a good job. The slate was not in perfect condition, so some filling in of imperfections was necessary. He did a sloppy job. Most of the table plays pretty good, but there is a roll away from the end rail at the foot of the table and the lower corner pockets play funny if you try to slow roll a ball in. Also, the lower seam has some bumps in it on one side of the table. All in all the table does play well enough, just not perfect. I didn't have to replace anything except the cloth on mine. Here are a couple of pictures: Before refinish
After refinish
Assembled table

As you can see in the pictures, I added some molding on the corners of the legs to protect the veneers from getting any more beat up than they already were. Basically, I just sanded everything down, put some mahogany stain on the rails, and coated it all with clear Varathane. Where the veneers had lifted, I used a folded piece of cardboard with glue inside and squeezed the glue between the base and veneer, then weighted the panels until the glue dried. The corner molding did a good job of hiding most of the major nicks and scuffs on the edges of the legs as well as the bottom of the frame. I used oak molding on the edges most likely to be kicked or hit and cheaper stuff for the inside corners that will likely only be hit by the vacuum cleaner. It was pretty easy to do and not very expensive. As you have noted, the whole table is very massive and with care should last forever.
 
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old vs. new

Ask this question in the Table Mechanics section.

These people are very helpful.

- My 2 cents: Consider as well how quickly you want a table. Sounds like the antique still needs some time till it is ready to be played on.
 
luckily I have a commercial brunswick at home that plays great so I would be able to take my time with it... I didn't think about posting in the table mechanic area, thanks for the direction
 
I have an antique Madison (Avitar) I bought a year ago, it plays very good, very level, (2 different people worked on it) the first guy told me I needed new slates, the second did a great job and is still very level. My pockets don't fit perfect into the table, there is a little gap, the guy told me that might not be the orginal pockets. If you can get a newer or nice GC or Diamond for about the same price I would jump on the newer one, but otherwise they play good, depending on the rail cushions. Please feel free to pm me any questions.
 
poolandpokerman said:
...If you can get a newer or nice GC or Diamond for about the same price I would jump on the newer one, but otherwise they play good, depending on the rail cushions. Please feel free to pm me any questions.
Click to expand...

I agree- get the newer one, especially if you are serious about the game. The newer engineering is much better...for instance, the bolts for the rails- on my old one, they run parallel to the playing surface and that is do good, newer tables run the perpendicular.

At least mine was free!:o
 
ugotactionTX said:
Do you think I will be happy with the "play" of this table assuming everything is set up well?

Thanks for your input!
Click to expand...


Depends on the restoration. If it's done right like this one, http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=73798 it plays just like a new table. This one's had the slate replaced with brand new Brunswick slate. Along with German rubber on the rails, and fresh Simonis 860 on top.

If you do it that way, you basically have a new table. And you get to retain that classic look, and feel. Best of both worlds!!

Rick S.
 
Rick S. said:
Depends on the restoration. If it's done right like this one, http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=73798 it plays just like a new table. This one's had the slate replaced with brand new Brunswick slate. Along with German rubber on the rails, and fresh Simonis 860 on top.

If you do it that way, you basically have a new table. And you get to retain that classic look, and feel. Best of both worlds!!

Rick S.
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The Anniversary (which the Centennial is just a fancied up version of) was the predecessor to the Gold Crown and has the same rail design as a GC, therefore it is going to play very similar to a modern table. I think the original poster was referring to antiques such as a Madison/Monroe etc. on the antiques the slate bolts into the side of the slate and the pocket drops themselves were actually made out of wood screwed to the slate. As good as a properly restored antique can play a modern bolt thru slate table will definitely play better.
 
Since the pockets do not fit --- this may have been a billiard table converted. If so, the rails will be higher and will need extensive rework by a competent professional.
 
I normally wouldn't post to this thread here, but...one thing to keep in mind for a later date. As most are aware already, there's a lot of billiards technicians out here today that already can't do a very good job of recovering pool tables on modern tables, what do you think there skills are like when it comes to recovering an antique table? Most have never even seen one, let alone work on one. AND, I guarantee if you can even find someone to work on it, it's going to cost you a hell of a lot more to have it worked on, or it's going to be one hell of a headache to try and find someone to straighten out the work of who ever worked on it last that screwed it up. If you want to own it to look at, fine...but I'd never own one myself, it's a major headache waiting to happen.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
I normally wouldn't post to this thread here, but...one thing to keep in mind for a later date. As most are aware already, there's a lot of billiards technicians out here today that already can't do a very good job of recovering pool tables on modern tables, what do you think there skills are like when it comes to recovering an antique table? Most have never even seen one, let alone work on one. AND, I guarantee if you can even find someone to work on it, it's going to cost you a hell of a lot more to have it worked on, or it's going to be one hell of a headache to try and find someone to straighten out the work of who ever worked on it last that screwed it up. If you want to own it to look at, fine...but I'd never own one myself, it's a major headache waiting to happen.

Glen
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Glen, you're probably right. I guess I kind of take for granted that people will automatically have a good mechanic since I'm good friends with one of the best table mechanics around. I've played on plenty of antiques that he restored and although they all played good, none of them played like a GC. Kind of like comparing Valley and Diamond bar boxes, sure you can get a Valley set up to play really well but it's never going to play like a Diamond. :)
 
realkingcobra said:
...Most have never even seen one, let alone work on one. AND, I guarantee if you can even find someone to work on it, it's going to cost you a hell of a lot more to have it worked on, or it's going to be one hell of a headache to try and find someone to straighten out the work of who ever worked on it last that screwed it up. If you want to own it to look at, fine...but I'd never own one myself, it's a major headache waiting to happen.

Glen
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Truth- you pay extra to have the guy figure out what was done to it before you an begin to pay to have it fixed! Sounds like my bicycle!
 
the front table at a pool room i played in for 3 years when ii started was a very old Brunswick, I didnt play good enough then to really notice the difference, but there was alot of action on it and there was another room 15 minutes away with GC1's and most of the bigger action was there or if the bet was raised everyone would drive to the other room.

I am putting a Centennial in my house here in the near future and it will be interesting, I sure do like how it looks, I hope I like how it plays, i'm sure I will.

i have played on some real old expensive Brunswick tables after i learned how to play and I love how they look, the history but I'd rather play on a new(er) table than a 100 year old box.
 
I bought a Brunswick 1903 Monterrey Mission. I spent $7000 & lots of time in the restoration. It was absolutely beautiful & great to play on. However, any bank info I learned, had to be translated to use on the local Gold Crown's where I play.

I wouldn't do it again. I'd buy a 9' Gold Crown or a 7' Diamond, depending on the game you play & the tables you compete on. JMHO
 
Fatboy said:
the front table at a pool room i played in for 3 years when ii started was a very old Brunswick, I didnt play good enough then to really notice the difference, but there was alot of action on it and there was another room 15 minutes away with GC1's and most of the bigger action was there or if the bet was raised everyone would drive to the other room.

I am putting a Centennial in my house here in the near future and it will be interesting, I sure do like how it looks, I hope I like how it plays, i'm sure I will.

i have played on some real old expensive Brunswick tables after i learned how to play and I love how they look, the history but I'd rather play on a new(er) table than a 100 year old box.
Click to expand...


If the Centennial is set up correctly you should love it! I like them better than the Gold Crowns myself, I used to play on an Anniversary with Artemis and 860 and absolutely loved it, I like how the rail tops are flat so you can get your cue a little more parallel to the slate.
 
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