Any AZB-er ever benefited from that "aim low on CB, strike elsewhere" thing?

arnaldo

arnaldo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Any AZB-er ever benefited from that "aim low on CB, strike elsewhere" thing?

Ortmann, Thorsten and some of the Filipinos seem do it regularly.

(Ortmann actually regularly goes way low and *left,* on his rehearsal strokes, aiming about 3 tips off-center at 7:30 no matter where he intends to actually impact the CB.)

I guess it allows them to see more of the CB/OB relationship, but it would seem pretty distracting to me.

Arnaldo
 
Very good question

I noticed this back in the days of the Camel Tour. The Filipinos, mostly Busty and Luat back then, not only aimed low and hit wherever, but they waggled their cue all over the place. Given that some of the best of the best do it, it should be tried by we lesser players. But not many try it. Seems like us Americans just can't get past the straight-forward idea of aiming where we intend to hit.
 
I tried doing this for awhile. Gave it up because people thought I was ridiculous doing it but it does work for some strange reason. Even now on long straight in shots I can line up like this and boom the ball goes straight as an arrow.
 
it works for me when I don't think about it or try to figure out why it works. just do it. I think it's a right brain/ left brain thing. I wish I knew more. maybe somebody who does know will chime in.
it seems like a lot of the pros do it.
 
If I aimed there every time I shot....I'd eventually rip the cloth with my tip. :embarrassed2:!!!

Maniac
 
I do not aim low on every shot but I do swerve the butt of my cue left and right when I need a lot of spin, it only takes a half tip or so.

Top players do this because it eliminates the need for factoring deflection into your aiming. You simply aim like you are hitting it center ball with natural English, give it a little swerve and you get English like crazy.

Some say it only works with certain bridge lengths. If that's true I must naturally have the correct bridge length since its always worked for me.

Dr. Dave will tell you it lacks scientific proof. Some top players will tell you its the real deal. As always your mileage may vary.
 
bigshooter said:
I do not aim low on every shot but I do swerve the butt of my cue left and right when I need a lot of spin, it only takes a half tip or so.

Top players do this because it eliminates the need for factoring deflection into your aiming. You simply aim like you are hitting it center ball with natural English, give it a little swerve and you get English like crazy.

Some say it only works with certain bridge lengths. If that's true I must naturally have the correct bridge length since its always worked for me.

Dr. Dave will tell you it lacks scientific proof. Some top players will tell you its the real deal. As always your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

It works accurately with the correct bridge length... you will still get left and right regardless of the length but shots not close to the pocket won't be as likely to go until you get the hang of the amount of swerve required and then it's as accurate as the user...

It's basically back hand English without the pivot and a swerve instead.... Dr. Dave and others have not stated that it lacks scientific proof in it's ability to adjust for deflection and help in using English on shots to some degree...

What they argued was that the swerve didn't apply more English than BHE or FHE or parallel and if it did there was no scientific evidence for that aspect...

I use swerve a lot but on shots where I want to load the cue ball and stun it I always get the best results setting the offset at address and not swerving... I guess when you start to get out on the misscue limit I tend to not want to swerve that far. It's subconscious thing and I checked it with a practice ball. I just can't make myself get out there unless I setup out there deliberately..

Chris
 
I use aiming low only on break shot, I think it helps me to shoot the cue ball in center.
 
For me aiming really low to the base of the ball helps me find center ball.
 
arnaldo said:
Ortmann, Thorsten and some of the Filipinos seem do it regularly.

(Ortmann actually regularly goes way low and *left,* on his rehearsal strokes, aiming about 3 tips off-center at 7:30 no matter where he intends to actually impact the CB.)

I guess it allows them to see more of the CB/OB relationship, but it would seem pretty distracting to me.

Arnaldo
Click to expand...

It might not be what it looks like.

I think they are using an aiming system that starts offset on the cue ball much like Offset aiming or TOI.

randyg
 
I place the top of the tip just below center on nearly every shot. This helps me to find the horizontal center through the cue ball. I can see the line along the cue shaft, through the center of the cue ball to the object ball contact point.

Then I adjust the stick as needed. In this way my tip offset is relative to center. Works for precise placement of the tip.

In the past I placed the tip on the cloth at the vertical base of the cue ball but find that I get better sighting if I begin just below center between the edges of the cue ball. Once learned it is also easier to find center when the cue ball is on the rail.
 
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Got a friend that points the cue tip at the base of the cue ball no matter what english he uses on the final stroke.

He told me once that being able to see the entire back of the cue ball helps with his aiming process.

On the other hand, one of my regular customers at my first pool room in Houston in the mid 80's would place the cue stick over the top of the cue ball on his practice strokes and then apply whatever english on his final stroke.

He had the most powerful draw stroke of anyone, including pros, I have ever seen to this day.


Stones
 
bigshooter said:
I do not aim low on every shot but I do swerve the butt of my cue left and right when I need a lot of spin, it only takes a half tip or so.

Top players do this because it eliminates the need for factoring deflection into your aiming. You simply aim like you are hitting it center ball with natural English, give it a little swerve and you get English like crazy.

Some say it only works with certain bridge lengths. If that's true I must naturally have the correct bridge length since its always worked for me.

Dr. Dave will tell you it lacks scientific proof. Some top players will tell you its the real deal. As always your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...
I never told anyone that using a "swoop stroke" to apply english "lacks scientific proof." On the contrary, as stated on my stroke swoop resource page, stroke swoop is an effective way to apply english for some people. See the paragraph under the videos on the resource page for an explanation of "stroke swoop" advantages. However, many (if not most people) will be more accurate and consistent with a non-swopping stroke, per the info and videos on the resource page, assuming the person has a decent understanding of and experience with squirt, swerve, and throw effects.

Regards,
Dave
 
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dr_dave said:
I never told anyone that using a "swoop stroke" to apply english "lacks scientific proof." On the contrary, as stated on my stroke swoop resource page, stroke swoop is an effective way to apply english for some people. See the paragraph under the videos on the resource page for an explanation of "stroke swoop" advantages. However, many (if not most people) will be more accurate and consistent with a non-swopping stroke, per the info and videos on the resource page, assuming the person has a decent understanding of and experience with squirt, swerve, and throw effects.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

I watched your demonstration long ago and got your thoughts on english mixed up with my thoughts on deflection. I did in fact misquote you, I apologize. Funny how as I get older my memory tends to mix things together. I appreciate your massive body of work in cue sports.
Rob
 
fasted71465 said:
SVB does the opposite he shows a center hit an d on final swing he puts spin on the ball.
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Along my journey, a few years back, I was getting a bank pool lesson from John Brumback and he noticed that when I first place my bridge hand on the table, I line up the vertical axis of the cue ball by raising my cue tip all the way to the top of the cue ball, then slowly lowering it to where I want to hit the cue ball. He remarked something to the effect, "What the hell are you doing there? :D I still do it occasionally but now after noticing I hit slightly to the left on hard power draw shots, I am placing the cue tip at the bottom of the cue ball to find a more "accurate" vertical axis on the cue ball. :)

JoeyA
 
bigshooter said:
dr_dave said:
I never told anyone that using a "swoop stroke" to apply english "lacks scientific proof." On the contrary, as stated on my stroke swoop resource page, stroke swoop is an effective way to apply english for some people. See the paragraph under the videos on the resource page for an explanation of "stroke swoop" advantages. However, many (if not most people) will be more accurate and consistent with a non-swopping stroke, per the info and videos on the resource page, assuming the person has a decent understanding of and experience with squirt, swerve, and throw effects.
Click to expand...
I watched your demonstration long ago and got your thoughts on english mixed up with my thoughts on deflection. I did in fact misquote you, I apologize. Funny how as I get older my memory tends to mix things together. I appreciate your massive body of work in cue sports.
Click to expand...
No problem Rob, and thank you for the kind words about my resources.

Catch you later,
Dave
 
I don't think it's helpful, but if you instinctively do it for years it may not hold you back either.

If you have a solid bridge placement, it seems to me you can hit a certain height on the cue ball
much more accurately if you lock it in before hand, vs. if you try to adjust on the fly without
even seeing the intended spot beforehand.

Visually I do look at the bottom of the ball on long straight-ins. I agree that trick can help you make
that kind of shot. But there's no reason to actually put your tip there.

Steering is a different issue...
It makes pool harder and I think it shows a subconscious fear in the shooter. Like

"uh oh, I don't trust my stroke and tip placement to do the job, better steer the stick sideways a little
and maybe my 'steer english' will spin the ball 10% better.
 
The best player on my league team does the "start low" thing on every shot, I dunno how he hits it where wants so well. Of course, that's because he is so much better than me :p

If I did that, I'd be scooping very often, or ripping the cloth like Maniac said.

Fun to watch when someone does it well, even tho its confusing to try and learn from how he shoots.
 
randyg said:
It might not be what it looks like.

I think they are using an aiming system that starts offset on the cue ball much like Offset aiming or TOI.

randyg
Click to expand...
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You're very likely right, Randy, that it actually is an aiming system at work.

Since Oliver is *way* too far off center for it to be in the realm of TOI, I wonder if anyone could elaborate on details of a system(s) they've heard of or seen in action that might be involved here?

The players from abroad sure get good results with it, and some AZB-ers might very much like to give this seemingly novel aiming technique a try. I would indeed appreciate doing so. Heck, we're all trying to elevate or fine tune our skills.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Arnaldo.
 
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