Any Ideas why my shaft will react like this???

[JoeyInCali]

The light shines pretty hard on those that are full of sh*t. This is why a lot of people are driven off and then cry about it....
The extreme cases end up banned.

tap tap tap

 

[Dave38]

Does anyone have a better answer than what Joe has put forth???? Aside from his "bedside" manner, it makes sense. I have been around a bit of wood as the son of a master craftsman, and have seen some of the funguses and diseases that wood can suffer over time. If it was a chemical reaction, as some have suggested, lot more people would see it, as there are quite a few cuemakers, here and elsewhere that use the same stabilizers for their shafts along with the same sealers as everyone else, so common sense would dictate that more of this would be happening
I believe, and I could be wrong, about 3-4 months ago someone had the same problem, and I think they were from the Philipines also(I COULD BE WRONG, JUST working off of memory),and all the poster got was the same responses and jokes, and no help. Only Joe's explanation, so far, sounds about right, ( a lot better than tomatoe juice in the case):grin: .
The purpose of this forum is to help, and sometimes, and I have been guilty of this myself, people give too many jokes or explanations that are way off based, and no real help. If I were a betting man, I would put $10 on Joe having a solution that may work, and would recommend that the OP pm's him for it..
Here is a link that I found, and hope it helps,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxing
I'm NOT an expert, and make no claims of that. But I don't think it's a good idea to share cases with that cue!!!
Just my .5 cents
Dave

 

[Rockin' Robin]

UH, it is a fungus, throw away the case. Sorry, but no stabilizer is causing that problem. We have high humidity like in the Phillipines down here, maybe not quiet as bad, as most places have air conditioning. Joe just might be correct.

 

[Sheldon]

My first guess was tomato juice in the case....
Fungus sounds a little more likely though, and if so, ditch the case when you get new shafts/cues!

 

[poolplayer2093]

Greetings to everyone out there on the Misinformation Network.....

This is one of the reasons why veteran and prominent cue makers don't post more on here. Everyone is an expert and offers their theories which are in no way accurate. Instead of guessing and supposing what this may be, it would be more responsible to say that you just don't know or how about not posting at all. Do you really need to see your name up in lights?

Now for the accurate response:
This is not from any stabilizer (nelsonite or resolute) or anything that the cue maker did or didn't do. And, the cue maker was well within his rights to charge for another shaft.

Additionally....
Those stains are what is commonly referred to as 'tropical stains' or a fungus that is building up on the wood. This is very common on paper items from countries in tropical areas such as the Philippines, Hawaii and many British Commonwealth countries. It appears that the original poster is from the Philippines so I rest my case.

Futhermore....
The actual term is called 'foxing' which is closely related to epherema (look it up) items of which I am a collector of. You will see this on old collectible stamps, especially on old documents, envelopes and newspapers. Many Civil War Covers (mailed envelopes) from the southern states also contain this fungus due to the humid climate in the south prior to air conditioning.

Foxing can be treated effectively by neutralizing the acidity content of the paper or in this case the wood. And yes, we have the chemicals to effectively treat this but I have not done any paper restoration in several years. And no, I'm not interested in treating any cues. Depending on how severe the 'foxing' is, it may be able to be lightly sanded off. However, this is only a temporary fix as the fungus is already in the wood and will only grow back. The only way to rid it for good is to neutralize it. This foxing will not effect the playability of the shaft until such point where the 'foxing' becomes so severe that you are playing with fungus in place of the wood. That will take many, many years.

I would not store any other shafts or cues in the case you are using to store this cue. Rest assured that any cue stored in this case will become infected.

This is my Christmas gift to all you wannabe know-it-alls so now you do know-it-all.

In closing -- MERRY CHRISTMAS to all and to all a good night! Ho Ho Ho!

sure this post was kind of arrogant but it's still cool to learn something new. Thanks for the info

 

[procues888]

Just incase its a tropical Stains???

Greetings to everyone out there on the Misinformation Network.....

This is one of the reasons why veteran and prominent cue makers don't post more on here. Everyone is an expert and offers their theories which are in no way accurate. Instead of guessing and supposing what this may be, it would be more responsible to say that you just don't know or how about not posting at all. Do you really need to see your name up in lights?

Now for the accurate response:
This is not from any stabilizer (nelsonite or resolute) or anything that the cue maker did or didn't do. And, the cue maker was well within his rights to charge for another shaft.

Additionally....
Those stains are what is commonly referred to as 'tropical stains' or a fungus that is building up on the wood. This is very common on paper items from countries in tropical areas such as the Philippines, Hawaii and many British Commonwealth countries. It appears that the original poster is from the Philippines so I rest my case.

Futhermore....
The actual term is called 'foxing' which is closely related to epherema (look it up) items of which I am a collector of. You will see this on old collectible stamps, especially on old documents, envelopes and newspapers. Many Civil War Covers (mailed envelopes) from the southern states also contain this fungus due to the humid climate in the south prior to air conditioning.

Foxing can be treated effectively by neutralizing the acidity content of the paper or in this case the wood. And yes, we have the chemicals to effectively treat this but I have not done any paper restoration in several years. And no, I'm not interested in treating any cues. Depending on how severe the 'foxing' is, it may be able to be lightly sanded off. However, this is only a temporary fix as the fungus is already in the wood and will only grow back. The only way to rid it for good is to neutralize it. This foxing will not effect the playability of the shaft until such point where the 'foxing' becomes so severe that you are playing with fungus in place of the wood. That will take many, many years.

I would not store any other shafts or cues in the case you are using to store this cue. Rest assured that any cue stored in this case will become infected.

This is my Christmas gift to all you wannabe know-it-alls so now you do know-it-all.

In closing -- MERRY CHRISTMAS to all and to all a good night! Ho Ho Ho!

=======================================================
Hi Mr. Joe,


Thanks for you opinion, But i like to ask that if the tropical or the climate here is Philippines is the reason for that stain, how come my other customs cues are not like that that I kept it almost 5 years and above. Like the Bender, Viattorre, jostwest, Les Blevins, Skip weston, DPK,Tim Scruggs, James white, Southwest, and other more they dont react like that. Only this cuemaker that I bought 2 cues from him in 1 transaction all reacts the sametime. So meaning the 4 shafts in two cues are all with this kind of stain. Sorry As of now I dont like to mention the cue maker yet because I might offend him. So I like to gather first information from you all guys that what is the possible reason for this to happen.

And Thank you and I have considered this as a fungus infection from what you have mention so I have followed your instruction and I have separated this 2cues and cue case from other cues to avoid the others to be contaminated also.

Thanks.

 

[sygfrid]

Could it be that the wood wasn't dried properly (or not at all) that's why it developed some fungus? I've heard of a known local cue maker who doesn't dry his woods

 

[procues888]

Maybe the wood really not dried enough, because my other customs cues stays the same as before , and it was kept almost 5 years and more. Even my Viattorre cues was Made here in the Philippines but the condition is still the same. So im just to be fair its really hard to say the cause of it.

 

[bdcues]

Conservation Online from Stanford University says that if it is foxing than it can be treated with sodium borohydride (NaBH4). Foxing usually caused by humidity being above 75%, some wood sites claim improper drying, then being in an overly humid climate. Treat then maintain relative humidity below 50%.
Either case I don't like the idea that the cuemaker would not make some allowance on making another shaft as either he bought wood that was improperly dried before he bought it or stored poorly after he bought it. This is not something the cue buyer did so why not stand behind your cues.
Try looking this site up- www.montgomerychemical.com and call them to find local supplier of chemical.

 

[dunkelcustomcue]

Can you show us a few more shots; pic of the joint area, overall shot and pics of the other shaft. Just curious if the fungus could spread under clearcoated wood and what the spread pattern looks like. How about taking a white rag and running it into the hole that the shaft was in. See if it comes out with some ot the mold on it.

 

[ugotactionTX]

now that's REALLY SAYING SOMETHING

Thanks Joe!

I don't know who ya are,or care. But you just won "MOST ARROGANT ASS" on earth award 2008. and we all bow down...

WoW DUDE!

Now that's really saying something here, lately there's been some pretty stiff competition for that award

 

[Fatboy]

Its not what you say its how you say it. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I try and be the nicest, my mom was proud of that.

 

[dave sutton]

well it sounds like joe knows what hes talking about

with that being said you area complete jerk off. where you get off talking to people the way you do. on the phone and online. you dont like it around here because 8 out of 10 people rip you part on here. if some makers dont post here its because of people like you not like the ones that try to help with every post. sure not everyone has 20 years in the buisness and have experienced everything possible. if you so good wheres your 4500$ cues each and 10 year waiting list

personally im glad you only post here once every six months. go tend to your fungi and leave us wanabees alone

 

[procues888]

Another shots...

Can you show us a few more shots; pic of the joint area, overall shot and pics of the other shaft. Just curious if the fungus could spread under clearcoated wood and what the spread pattern looks like. How about taking a white rag and running it into the hole that the shaft was in. See if it comes out with some ot the mold on it.

Here's the another part nearly to the joint. The other shaft almost spread all over the shaft except in the coated part.:frown:

 

[linds]

OMG! glad that no one called me up with regards to this... but since the topic is quite sensitive better give the general public an idea on who's the CM is? btw, nice collection of cues...

 

[pescadoman]

well it sounds like joe knows what hes talking about

with that being said you area complete jerk off. where you get off talking to people the way you do. on the phone and online. you dont like it around here because 8 out of 10 people rip you part on here. if some makers dont post here its because of people like you not like the ones that try to help with every post. sure not everyone has 20 years in the buisness and have experienced everything possible. if you so good wheres your 4500$ cues each and 10 year waiting list

personally im glad you only post here once every six months. go tend to your fungi and leave us wanabees alone

A: you can appreciate Joe for being the first person not to be a smart ass with some juvenile answer and being correct.
B: you can appreciate the fact Joe is correct and then attack his reply because it wasn't as diplomatic as you might like, telling the only person who got it right that he is an ass and essentially saying "keep your knowledge to yourself".
I realize that I only recently joined the community here, but I can honestly say that I APPRECIATE a correct answer, diplomatic or not, in lieu of something that everyone might find funny. However, I didn't think that "ask the cuemaker" would be all about jokes......

BTW, I'm sure someone will come up with some C or D alternative to what I have just written, completely ignorant of the point.

 

[bandido]

Many thanks for your opinion and comments for this shaft. Unforetunately I Have ask my cue maker about this and I have send him also the pictures to him. He was shock and he himself dont know why this shaft happens, he just told me that he can make me a new shaft and the price is ...... so meaning I have to pay for a new shaft. This cue maker is a well known cuemaker already so its better for me not to mention his name because I respect this person, since I still dont know the concrete evidence or knowledge why could this happen to the shaft. Maybe if there are players or cue makers have encountered this kind of problems also and they have solution to this please let me know. Thanks for your time guys.

Have you even considered that the case that you stored this in is moist inside. Just a thought. Yes this is moisture related and normally seen from cues coming from high humidity areas. I have received such from neighboring Asian countries which also includes cues made from No. America.

Constant use disrupts the fungus' growth but since your cue did like a petrie dish then you got propagation.

The wood used usually has a high moisture content or you may have caused such moisture content increase if you sand your shafts then fail to re-seal. As for the cuemaker's contribution, I can't tell you. If it'll help you deduce the cause-there are only 2 of us CM' here in the Phil that have temp/humidity regulated storage/ageing room: Linds and myself. Viattorre has an enclosed work area and the others are exposed to the elements.

Most all US made cues are sealed, didn't say US Branded China-made mind you. But what I've notice caused such was that the owner self sanded down the shaft diameter and left the shaft unsealed thus the shaft wood equalized in moisture content with its surrounding (our high humidity climate). And if the owner does what you did, store the cue for a while specially in an air conditioned room, then the moisture content of the cue starts moving out of the wood to equalize with the surrounding lower moisture content air. Or in a non-aircon damp and dark place. Bottomline is undisturb damp fungus magnet wood.

Try a little grout cleaner, lightly sand and seal.

 

[dunkelcustomcue]

Most cuemakers use some type of sealer on the non clearcoated part of the shaft. I have heard of cuemakers not using any sealers and only burnishing the non clearcoated portion of the shaft. That may account to why these shafts had a problem and the other high end cues that you own did not have a problem.

 

[Dave38]

If these where my own shafts, I would try a small test area with bleach and dab a few of the spots, close to the joint. Then let it set for a day or so out of the case, then see what happens. If it's fungus, the bleach should kill it, and the spots should at least change color or dissappear. Either that or pm Joe and ask him for his treatment. The fact it hasn't gone under the clearcoat at the joint tells me Joe's assesment is pretty correct, and is fungus based.
Dave

 

[procues888]

Have you even considered that the case that you stored this in is moist inside. Just a thought. Yes this is moisture related and normally seen from cues coming from high humidity areas. I have received such from neighboring Asian countries which also includes cues made from No. America.

Constant use disrupts the fungus' growth but since your cue did like a petrie dish then you got propagation.

The wood used usually has a high moisture content or you may have caused such moisture content increase if you sand your shafts then fail to re-seal. As for the cuemaker's contribution, I can't tell you. If it'll help you deduce the cause-there are only 2 of us CM' here in the Phil that have temp/humidity regulated storage/ageing room: Linds and myself. Viattorre has an enclosed work area and the others are exposed to the elements.

Most all US made cues are sealed, didn't say US Branded China-made mind you. But what I've notice caused such was that the owner self sanded down the shaft diameter and left the shaft unsealed thus the shaft wood equalized in moisture content with its surrounding (our high humidity climate). And if the owner does what you did, store the cue for a while specially in an air conditioned room, then the moisture content of the cue starts moving out of the wood to equalize with the surrounding lower moisture content air. Or in a non-aircon damp and dark place. Bottomline is undisturb damp fungus magnet wood.

Try a little grout cleaner, lightly sand and seal.

Hi Mr. Ed,

Thanks for your advise. I have considered also the case that I put the cues into it. It was put in a Joe porper case. Maybe this case was not as good as my other cases that I used like whitten, predator, instroke case. The Porper construction inside is not like the others cases I have right now, so maybe the porper might be a one reason also? And also I never sand these 4 shafts that is infected.



Thanks for your advise again.:smile: