Anybody Else Struggle With These Shots?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it seems like i have a problem with these "backward" cuts into the side pockets. also seems like the prevailing attitude is to shy away from the side pockets unless necessary. while this may or may not be true, still you cant control the break, or whatever shot your opponent might leave you.

anybody have some good tips on these shots? i would say my #1 problem with these shots is that i undercut them.

thanks for any positive, constructive criticisms.
DCP

CueTable Help

 
It's a little bit of a tough shot, but really not so tough you need to "shy away" from it. You have quite a large pocket opening from that angle, and spin can take you anywhere on the table from there, so it's not really a bad spot. Just practice these shots if you have trouble, and if you always undercut them, remember to hit them a little thinner! After a while you'll gain more comfort, and instead of adjusting your aim thinner, you'll feel like you have a feel for how to make the shot, and you won't have to adjust anymore.

I don't think there's any trick or technique to this shot other than what's involved in any shot. If you have trouble judging it, practice it!

-Andrew
 
To help in fixing the line of the shot in your mind, you might try imagining a cushion extending from the pocket to the object ball. The nice thing about it is that you can locate the cushion any distance from the OB. Just don't count on it to assist in funneling the ball into the pocket, as with corner pocket shots. :)

The shot you have diagrammed is just a little more than a half-ball hit. That means a lot of throw if you're stunning into the OB, or nearly stunning into it. That could be why you're undercutting it.

Solution: be aware of the increased throw and allow for it by making a thinner hit. Or, use a healthy amount of follow or draw if positioning requirements permit (to reduce throw). If you're not already aware of the general ways in which throw varies with cut angle, speed and spin, you might want to take up a brief study of it either at the table or on paper.

Jim
 
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One thing to keep in mind is contact induced throw. There's a few different ways to handle it:

1. Use a small bit of outside english on the shot, to have the cue ball "roll" across the face of the ball you are cutting. To be used when position is automatic, and you just need to make the ball.

2. Learn how to hit the ball with all different englishes and speeds.

My experience has been that the slower you stroke this ball, the thinner you have to hit it. The reason is that contact induced throw is "heavier" the slower the cue ball passes across the face of the ball you are cutting.

Be aware that inside english magnifies the effect. So, if you need to apply inside english and hit this ball slow, you need to cut it thinner than you think is necessary.

When faced with heavy cuts into side pockets like this, I follow a general rule if position allows me. I aim the ball at the outer "tit" of the side pocket. Has worked very, very well for me. And I've played a lot of bar pool. Dirty balls=much more throw, and smaller side pockets added to that.

Anyone else, feel free to correct me if you don't agree with anything I've said here.

Russ
 
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I've found that playing snooker (especially the blue ball off the spot) has helped me tremendously on tough cuts to the side pocket.
 
I actually enjoy hitting the shot you described. I like to play around with different amounts of draw and english. (just enough draw to avoid the corner scratch and then spinning out two rails, or inside english into the side rail for the kill off the end rail. You can make practicing this shot quite fun..........and you will then have a shot in your bag....(when its absolutly necessary)

The making of the ball in the shot you have diagramed is not really that difficult since you are able to keep the pocket in your peripheral vision.

When this shot becomes difficult is when you have to shoot it the length of the table and the pocket is no longer visable (when down on the shot)... Keeping an accurate aim can be challenging.....To help with the visualization process I rely on a simple yet effective trick.

While standing I will track the line back from the pocket to a spot on the cloth about a foot out in front of the OB (yet still in my peripheral vision)....I now have a reference point (or intermediate pocket) to keep in my peripheral vision when down on the shot....shoot the ball over the mark and it goes in....(and no it wont be out of your line of sight when down on the shot because the mark will be off to the left or right since the shot will have somewhat of a severe angle (which is why the pocket is blind in the first place):)

Something I carried over from Golf (putting).........
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
it seems like i have a problem with these "backward" cuts into the side pockets. also seems like the prevailing attitude is to shy away from the side pockets unless necessary. while this may or may not be true, still you cant control the break, or whatever shot your opponent might leave you.

anybody have some good tips on these shots? i would say my #1 problem with these shots is that i undercut them.

thanks for any positive, constructive criticisms.
DCP
Click to expand...

I agree, these shots are very hard for me as well. Try lining up the tip of the cue with the pocket on the other side of the 1 ball. Put the tip on the felt where the center of the cue ball would have to hit, then visualize that spot where you need to hit, line it up and hit it in. Or try to visualize a ghost ball where you need to hit it, you will eventually be so good at it you wont need to do that.

Good luck to you!
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
also seems like the prevailing attitude is to shy away from the side pockets unless necessary.
Click to expand...
Listen. I hope that your last "what would you do here" question didn't give you the wrong impression about side pocket shots. If so, I can see how since some posters obviously got that impression also. But, I gurantee you that the three or four people who strongly suggested something other than the side pocket have no problem shooting at the side pocket when it's the appropriate shot.

Don't convince yourself that there's some kind of prevailing attitude to do anything. This board is made up of a bunch of hacks as well as a bunch of professionals.

In this particular shot, the back cut is tougher simply because the pocket target isn't in the direction you face. Yes, it's tougher. Don't let someone convince you it's not. If it wasn't tougher, than you wouldn't have a problem with it. I could tell you all about stroking and all that, but for me, aiming systems helped. The shot is dificult to sight for some of us. That's just physiology. No forum board is going to contradict that.

Fred
 
I think the key to pocketing backcuts in general is to concentrate on the contact point of the CB.

Focusing on the OB contact point is easy enough, but when you shoot a shot where the pocket isn't in the direction you're facing, it's a bit more difficult and less intuitive to judge how "full" you want to hit the OB, such that the CB contacts the OB at the correct contact point to pocket the shot. I tend to overcut backcuts because I subconsciously feel the cut angle is greater than it actually is, simply because i'm looking away from the pocket.

To eliminate some of the guess work, I find it helpful to locate the contact point on the CB after I locate the contact point of the OB. After that, it's simply just connecting the two contact points together. That's my systematic approach to difficult to judge backcuts.
 
Neil said:
Set the cueball to near straight on the obj.ball. Shoot it 5 times. Now move the cb to a little angle. shoot it 5 times. Then a little more angle. Then a little more. Get the idea? Change the angle a little at a time. Pretty soon you will be making backcuts you didn't think were possible.
Click to expand...

ahhhhh, the old Progressive Practice routine that Tom Rossman emphasized to me once. sounds like Mr. Neil is on top of things here, thanks for this "Progressive" tip!

Dr. Cue taught me this years ago, IIRC, using the draw stroke as an example. i pocketed five balls, then moved the cue ball back about six (6) inches, and he says "Nope, not like that, thats too far, only move it back about three inches at a time." which i proceeded to do.

then he told me the shots i was practicing were "Too Hard/Long" and i should focus on somewhat shorter versions of the shots. "Half Table Shots" as he referred to them. shortly thereafter, practicing progessively and working on shorter versions of shots, i ran my first rack.

DCP
 
This type of cuts are very hard to see when you stay very low with the cue touching your chin like in snooker. With an upper stance you can aim this shots much easier.
 
birdy said:
This type of cuts are very hard to see when you stay very low with the cue touching your chin like in snooker. With an upper stance you can aim this shots much easier.
Click to expand...

This is another good point here. The backward cut is sometimes visually tough to judge from my low stance, so I sometimes "stutter" while getting into my stance, meaning I start to lower myself, then raise back up to take another look from up high, then lower again, just to make sure I've gotten a good visual perception of the line of aim from different vantage points. Once I'm done stuttering and am down on the shot, I'm confident that I've placed my bridge in the right spot and chosen the right line of aim. Sometimes looking from multiple view angles like this really helps me judge the shot.

-Andrew
 
Not a difficult shot as posted.........and, the shot all depends on your pattern to get out and your shape for your next shot.

If you play as much as you say you do, then you should already know how to make this shot and get shape

Practice, practice, practice.......

:D

Good luck!!!!!

Russ...
 
Everyone has certain shots that are not so difficult that give us extra anxiety.

I like to recognize these shots and ask myself when I'm down where I think I'll miss the ball. Usually just doing that tells me intuitively where I'm going wrong. From there, it's all visualization. Not one technique is the be-all end-all. Just make sure you can picture everything you need to set your mind at ease.
 
Proto,

I'm going to make a S,WA Guess here, that you make other shots
where you can see the pocket that are just as hard or even harder.

If so, you have a serious problem with your aiming technique. seeing,
or not seeing the pocket, should make no diference.

Dale
 
There's a trick I use with this shot and with its difficult cousin, the one where you have to make a long backwards cut into the corner.

Stand behind the OB and line up as if you wanted to shoot it directly into the pocket. It's not enough to just stand behind the shot and eyeball it, you want to actually line up with your cue stick and pretend like you're gonna strike it. Let the cue stick come very close to the OB and imagine touching it with the tip (in whatever place that would send it into the heart of the pocket). Now imagine that after touching that place, the tip left a little chalk on the OB. Stare at that imaginary chalk dot like your life depended on it. It helps if there's a little nick or scratch near where the dot should be. If there isn't, it can help to use the number or the stripe or something.

Walk back around to your cueball and as you walk, keep your eyes on the spot, don't even take your eyes off to walk properly =). If possible, try to line up on the cueball using peripheral vision only and keep staring at the dot.

Finally, imagine the back side of the cueball contacting that dot perfectly as you shoot. And do what Russ advised, using a touch of outside english if it's possible to get shape that way. It really has worked for me, and I find it works especially well on these cuts because you can more easily imagine the backside of the cue ball from these angles.
 
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