Anyone Else Feel They Could Have Made Pro?

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Anybody else out there like me. I’ll bet there is. When I was around 10 yo. I saw my first real pool table at a firehouse that my Dad was delivering ice to. It was a 10’ Brunswick. After watching him run a quick rack of balls I believe I was hooked on the game even though I never got to play on the table.

When I got home a friend and myself found a good 4’x8 piece of plywood…so we borrowed it. We cut out the pockets and glued and nailed 1” sides all around. We used automobile door weather stripping for cushions and large marbles for balls. I had hours and hours of fun on that table. I had everybody’s school lunch money for a 4 square block area before a month was up. When my Mom and Dad started getting phone calls and knocks on the door from parents complaining about their kids were losing their lunch money to me my Dad broke the table into pieces. But a few weeks later he and some friends brought home 9’ Brunswick for the basement.

From that day on I played hours of pool a week until my health got me in 2003. Over 50 years almost never a week w/o hitting balls. I really think I could have made pro player if I continued to work on my game like I did the first 5 years of playing. But I saw that as I started gambling and winning more money than I made with two paper routes and odd jobs like shoveling snow, raking leaves and cutting lawns I really stopped trying to get better. I saw from a young age that if you became a top player you had to bump heads with other top players or give out spots that you had to play your ass off showing everyone around your true speed. To me that and practicing didn’t make any sense.

I always worked a job or had some business of my own or picking numbers and book for the local book. I made a good living part time playing pool, sometimes more than I made on my job or business for 50 years and hardly ever had to show my top speed or work on my game. Anyone else figure they could have played top speed but quit really practicing when the money was so easy to get as an “A” player or low speed shortstop? Johnnyt
 
Like you I got hooked at an early age. My game was snooker when I was a kid, started playing when I was 6 on a 6x3 table my dad bought for Christmas. I would spend every day in the pool halls when I was in my early teens playing for what ever I could. I doubt I had what it takes to become one of the very best, there was far too much competition. I remember winning a competition when I was 14 and getting the chance to play Steve Davis in an exhibition, 1 frame. I had 2 safety shots the whole frame then he made a 138 break on me. Brutal, but that's the mentality of the top players. I would have given the kid a chance.

I've got a buddy who's just gone 19, and is playing on the GB9 tour. He got sponsored by OB at 18 and is now seriously considering taking on the Euro tour, and then on to America. He makes just enough money to get by on the GB9 tour, and unless he becomes one of the best players out there he would be better off moving to America and moving from town to town as an unknown, playing for money against the best players in a given town. Also the experience would be priceless.
 
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I always worked a job or had some business of my own or picking numbers and book for the local book.

Hey, i didnt know we had any ex-number runners here besides me, lol. Ask most people today if they ever played the numbers and they look at you and say "Whats that?"
 
I have often wondered what distinguishes a champion player from a good shooter, and the one trait I have seen in all champion players is a strong self-confidence.

It is the same with Hollywood actors or comedians. When you see Jay Leno or David Letterman or Matt Damon or Robert DeNiro, they all have one thing in common: self-confidence.

Not everybody has the capability to block out crap in their life to achieve total self-confidence. This is what separates the lions from the lambs.

That said, no, I could have never made pro. I shot in a few state championships and missed a duck shot as well as ball in hand. I couldn't fade the nerves. :embarrassed2:
 
Hey, i didnt know we had any ex-number runners here besides me, lol. Ask most people today if they ever played the numbers and they look at you and say "Whats that?"

LOL. I got caught twice and after the boy's got it fixed they took the #'s and book away and had me working on their cars and boats. I also did some pickups with the boats. Those were some exiting days. Johnnyt
 
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No doubt in my mind I could have. As JAM proclaims, and I concur - self confidence is huge.

I didn't know what a pro player's life was like in the late 70's when I would have had to decide. I chose college and a white picket fence - or perhaps my 'rents did, lol. I am thankful I didn't jump for the illusion. So many sacrifices. 1000's of these "pro's" live on the edge, some do ok, and a sparse handful are living the dream. Bad odds IMO.
 
Well, no way to prove it, or I would bet everyone on this site could have played 30hrs a week for 10 years and very few would have ever made it to A level. I would also bet that some could play 5 days a week for 40 years and never get past a B level.
 
I'm sure almost all of us thought we could have made it as a pro if we'd worked harder it at, especially if we started out young enough to see rapid and instinctive improvement. Almost all of us would be wrong.

It is easy to overestimate our abilities, and even easier to underestimate how difficult it is to continue improving. The simple equation is, if you're good enough to be pro, you WOULD be pro. Everything else is just BS. It makes me pretty angry to hear people say they're a great player when they most palpably are not {cough, Emily Duddy, cough}. Some people don't know their place in the pecking order and never will.

This game is difficult enough without self delusion taking over.
 
Well, no way to prove it, or I would bet everyone on this site could have played 30hrs a week for 10 years and very few would have ever made it to A level. I would also bet that some could play 5 days a week for 40 years and never get past a B level.

I agree. I've seen many day after day for 10-15 years stay at C because they do the same thing over and over again and NEVER taking any advice from better players. Johnnyt
 
I have often wondered what distinguishes a champion player from a good shooter, and the one trait I have seen in all champion players is a strong self-confidence.

It is the same with Hollywood actors or comedians. When you see Jay Leno or David Letterman or Matt Damon or Robert DeNiro, they all have one thing in common: self-confidence.

Not everybody has the capability to block out crap in their life to achieve total self-confidence. This is what separates the lions from the lambs.

That said, no, I could have never made pro. I shot in a few state championships and missed a duck shot as well as ball in hand. I couldn't fade the nerves. :embarrassed2:

Bingo! Self-confidence is the key.

Everyone is aware of playing subconsciously, using your conscious mind to send a picture to the sub of the outcome you desire. But there is a much less talked about factor that plays a major roll in the shot process. Self-image! It is the self image that helps determine wether your conscious mind pictures the o.b. splitting the pocket or rattling in the jaws. It is the self image that can help your conscious mind picture perfect shape or worry about coming up short and hooking yourself.

A good analogy is a submarine. The conscious mind being the periscope, letting you picture where you are going, the subconscious mind being the engine, taking you where you are going. But it is the self-image, being the throttle determining how fast and how far you go.

Big self-image= big self-confidence

Having said all that, don't dismiss the hours and hours it takes to really study the game and the hours and hours it takes developing your skills to a subconscious level.
 
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Yea... every time that I run a rack where I've used at least one bank... a 8' cut/rail shot and had to shoot at least 3 shots left handed. Or even better when I've run a rack so clean that I didn't have to do any of the above.:cool:
Yes, I believe that I could have gone pro... even though when Earl was about 19 he beat me about 66% of the games during a few hours of shooting one very late night. I got better after that night (after being schooled by the soon to be famous Earl) and made my share of $$$ hustling out in the local pool halls. But I probably would have never been at Earl or SVB level (it's hard to say without actually doing it).
Today (with my own table) shooting every day... when I'm on... I'm better than I ever was. It's just not as consistent as it was 25 years ago... but at times I believe that I can still shoot at a pro level.
But you have to live it day in and day out to keep going as long (and as well) as Earl has. And also some people (like Earl and SVB) were just naturally born to wield a cue stick.

However the best player that I ever played was not Earl and never even played a tournament. He was somewhat of a transient that would come into town and hustle $$$ at my game-room for a few weeks (sometimes months) before moving on somewhere else for awhile. He didn't even have his own cue. I'd let him borrow mine (if I wasn't shooting) and he'd always walk away from the table with a fist full of money and insisted on giving me a generous rental fee for using my cue. He always shot lights out. I would really liked to have seen him and Earl go at it. The last time that I saw him he told me that he probably wouldn't be back my way again. I offered to give him my Viking window cue (free) because if ever there was someone who was meant to own it more than me it was him.

I believe that if I would have played in more tournaments (instead of hustling a few hundred here and there) I probably would have been able to make a living at it.
So to make this long answer shorter... Yes
(but the old days of hustling around was probably more fun and exciting).
 
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Bingo! Self-confidence is the key.

Everyone is aware of playing subconsciously, using your conscious mind to send a picture to the sub of the outcome you desire. But there is a much less talked about factor that plays a major roll in the shot process. Self-image! It is the self image that helps determine wether your conscious mind pictures the o.b. splitting the pocket or rattling in the jaws. It is the self image that can help your conscious mind picture perfect shape or worry about coming up short and hooking yourself.

A good analogy is a submarine. The conscious mind being the periscope, letting you picture where you are going, the subconscious mind being the engine, taking you where you are going. But it is the self-image, being the throttle determining how fast and how far you go.

Big self-image= big self-confidence

Having said all that, don't dismiss the hours and hours it takes to really study the game and the hours and hours it takes developing your skills to a subconscious level.

This is a good post, and it's so doggone true. I have always advocated that once a person is able to acquire the mechanical skills of pool, the rest of all mental conditioning.

I can remember when I was younger and more self-conscious, I would be shooting pool in a crowd of onlookers, and as I'm getting ready to pull the trigger, bizarre thoughts would immediately creep into my head, like I don't have another quarter to put on the table if I miss this shot, my pants are too tight, John at the bar is staring at me and hoping I miss, it will be another hour before my name comes back up on the list to challenge the table, this guy I'm playing is a jerk, et cetera, et cetera. :grin-square:

Champions, I think overcome the bizarre thoughts and can get in that so-called "zone" on demand much easier than social shooters. Having mental conditioning when at the table allows one to shoot their best game. The mechanical part is easy once you learn the fundamentals.
 
Short answer, no. In my first 5-6 years of playing, I thought I WAS a pro...I definitely wasn't. I spent minimum 6 hours every day 7 days a week at a pool room. 12 hour sessions were routine. I routinely ran 5 packs and even an 11 pack (BB 8 ball) once in competition, would usually win local bar tournaments without dropping a single game. For several months one year, I made more money at pool then I did as an Army officer. Then I ran into my first pro and saw what real pool was like. Then I started seeing more and more REAL pool players and realized I just wasn't good enough and likely wouldn't ever be good enough to make any kind of living doing it, even if I quit my day job and took it on the road full time. That was a liberating revelation, I was able to have fun at the game instead of taking it so seriously and having to worry if I could keep the lights on at home (or even have a home). Since then, if I enter a tournament or play in a regional tour, I can just have fun and if (when) I don't cash, no drama, the entry fee was money well spent on a good time. My day job keeps my family fed and pays the mortgage.

After playing for over 25 years, I'm MUCH better; but no way I could fade the 25 year old me...like others have said, I had way more confidence than I deserved and played with utter abandon. I play at a higher speed now, but can't maintain it for very long. No way I'd have ever made it as a pro. And I'm absolutely fine with that...I definitely made the right choice. A couple of the guys I ran with that played the same speed as me at the time quit the Army to go on the road...it didn't end well for them. I've had a good 26 (so far) year career in the Army, a wonderful family, two homes and I still love pool. No regrets! :smile:
 
Self confidence...

Yes, self confidence has something to do with it... of course it does. But I wouldn't call it the most important thing in shooting "pro level" after mastering the mechanics.
I believe (just as I have experienced during my very best times at the table) that the true pro is "one with the table".
The pro dances with the table. In an arena of hundreds of people there is no audience, no opponent to defeat, just the shooter and each shot at hand. When you get to that state of being one with the game you make many shots and get great leaves. I've danced with tables many times, moving on to the point of my next shot well before the cue-ball has finished it's journey to the exact point where I am waiting. You foresee the exact outcome of every shot just as soon as the tip of the stick makes contact with the cue-ball.
That's not exactly confidence. It's clearing your mind of everything but each shot and each leave and being able to see the exact lay of the table. Not being impressed by how well you are playing or what a great shot you just made, because you're moving too fast around the table to reflect on the past few seconds of your life. Hell, when I'm dancing... I don't think that I would even notice it if the ball setters in a match of BB were completely naked.
Call it confidence if you want to, but I call if focus. There are many times when I expect to play out a table, but either my mind isn't clear enough of my hand/eye coordination is a bit off at that moment and all of the confidence in the world isn't going to put the balls in the pocket until I'm dancing with the table again.

However... I won't deny that confidence is one of the top 5 key components of the game.
 
I'm sure almost all of us thought we could have made it as a pro if we'd worked harder it at, especially if we started out young enough to see rapid and instinctive improvement. Almost all of us would be wrong.

It is easy to overestimate our abilities, and even easier to underestimate how difficult it is to continue improving. The simple equation is, if you're good enough to be pro, you WOULD be pro. Everything else is just BS. It makes me pretty angry to hear people say they're a great player when they most palpably are not {cough, Emily Duddy, cough}. Some people don't know their place in the pecking order and never will.

This game is difficult enough without self delusion taking over.

This ability to overestimate our abilities has made me a LOT of money when I was younger. Every other sport had an ability to say how good you are by score/average (I'm a 170 bowler, or a 6 handicap in golf. But pool never really had that. And as a result, anyone that won a few drinks in a bar felt they were great players. Easy money back in the day.
 
Resounding NO from me.

I thought I was a talented player, until I played Marco Fu in the late 90's. It was ugly. It was my first glimpse of an actual "pro" caliber guy. It was an awakening.

What was the difference? I'm not entirely certain. But, I know that nerves really took a toll on me. I would be playing and at the same time worrying what other players in the room thought about my play. The mental game is a funny thing.

Did I get the most out of my talent level? Probably not. I never received any coaching, and I wasn't diligent in the way I practiced, lots of days I just hit balls endlessly. I also grew up in an area with not very many good players. I'm certain that a lack of competition didn't do my development any favors.

I do know one thing though. I was obsessed with the game for about 7 years, and then one day the obsession turned into mere routine, and then slowly to apathy. The 6-7 hours a day turned into 6 hours a week, and then 6 times a month. Eventually, I quit altogether for a few years. SVB has been obsessed for what now, 15+ years? And still loves it. Few people can fade that.
 
I think if you ask anyone they will probably say they could have made it if they wanted to.
Honestly though,I believe the level of precision that high-level pros play at it is out of reach for most of us. With dedicated practice and proper instruction, I think many could be pretty darn good, but to become a precise, consistent professional without any obvious weaknesses in one's physical and mental game is just too tough a road, with too many obstacles, as it is in any other professional sport.

To get there requires loads of self-confidence, unwavering dedication, willingness to learn, natural talent, mental toughness, attention to detail, desire, consistency, mentoring, a support network, and more. Most of us, including myself, can say we are lacking in some or even all of these and that's probably where we would get held back.

Just my 2 cents though.

Vic
 
I have been successful in a few different areas and had a national reputation in more than one area of my life. I have no need to get into the things I have done. Let’s just say I have been more successful at a professional level than many people. I took up playing pool casually about 25 years ago (I’ll be70 this year). Over the last five years or so I have been playing every day.

At best I am a “B’ Player which means that I know enough about the game to know what is involved. When I look back over my life and the things I have done and compare the efforts and personal disposition required to be a professional player I would say that yes, I could have been a professional player. Here is why.

To be successful at most things in life it requires a type of quiet self-confidence. That is, not a public self confidence that is displayed for others but a self determination that says, “I can do this because I choose to do it.”

The skills required to be a professional pool player are not all that demanding for any “normal” person. The dedication and unrelenting day in day out effort to be excellent in any area is a requirement that many people lack. My wife says I am tenacious and I suppose that is the best word for it. It is probably partly biological and like a bulldog who has latched on, there is an inability to quit, one needs to take whatever comes down the pike and work with it until it is mastered. I guess you could say a bulldog is self-confident. I think the dog would say he is just being who he is. I like this image because the bulldog is a USMC icon and it is where I learned that I can do anything I set my mind to.

I really do not think it is about the number of hours or years that one plays, though these numbers are staggering for anyone who pursues excellence, it is about self-determination to conquer whatever is in front of you. Not in a boastful or public way but in a self-determined way that has nothing to do with public perception.

Any master of his craft knows his tools well, far beyond what others know because it is but one more element of becoming the best. These tools (including one’s body) are then explored to the last possible extent, only then can it be taken even further to become what others are not.

In the past I have been told that I was brilliant, even a genius, in some of the things I have done. I know this is not true. I am of regular, maybe slightly above, normal intellectual ability. In the things that have been recognized it was not luck, it was a willingness to go far beyond the effort and dedication of most people. In all of these things there was an acceptance on my part that excellence is 99% sweat.

To become excellent at anything does not require the exceptional abilities that are often alluded to, it requires a form of dedication that most people do not have. I think that there are some people such as Efren Reyes and a few others with exceptional talent who can never be beaten by mere mortals with normal talent and a bulldog mentality. To be in his league is not beyond one’s grasp. To exceed his abilities it is impossible, those are true natural talents.

Here is one for instance, when I started college at age 25 I bought the required text books and then I bought the required texts for the other sections of the class I was taking. I probably read three texts books and the ancillary material before the first day of class. Then I was ready to ask the professor some questions. As I remember, most of my classmates thought I was a fool who went far beyond what was needed -- they were right in some ways.
 
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I also believe this;

A person can make a decision to be a Pro, but you can't really make the decision to not be one.

What I mean is, lets say if at 20 years old you are the best player in your city. The decision now is to go all out for it or not. IMHO, if you decide to not go for it, for whatever reason, then you never really had it in you to make it as a top player. When I listen to the top players talk, there is never any discussion about a Plan B. At the time, they were determined and had a single minded focus. The idea of weighing their options(job, school, whatever) never enters into it. (Until much later in life.)

I of course could be wrong on this theory.
 
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