Anyone ever take a lesson from Tor Lowry?

[BC21]

The vast majority of people seeking pool instruction want a couple of hours of lessons to fix a couple of things in their fundamentals, learn how to hit the cue ball accurately, and play a little position. Maybe draw the ball for the first time in their life. I'd say that fewer than 5%, or maybe even 1% can arrange to do even two hours of practice a week. Maybe that's from other time commitments or just due to a luke-warm interest in the game. The kind of player witnessed above who will work hard on their game in a structured format for a hundred hours is unusual. The player who will put in 1000 hours is rare. Those hours are not knocking balls around or even playing the ghost -- they are conscious, directed work on specific skills.

This is so true. Fact is, the vast majority of pool players are league players and bar bangers that enjoy playing at local bars, sometimes competing in a small local tournament every now and then.

When it comes to skill level, some are very good, some are beginners, but most are just average players, and most will remain average. The ones who really want to improve will actually work on their game. They may buy a table for the house, or maybe they'll find time to play more often than on league night or weekends at their favorite bar.

Getting lessons from a pro or an instructor is not always common or feasible for the average person. Hell, in many small towns across the US, there's no access to in-person professional instruction. And it takes a high level of desire and commitment to be willing to travel a few hours for pool lessons.

 

[Poolmanis]

That last video was best one from him so far.
He have style that he bombs so much text that it come overwhelming...
Best to watch his videos in short pieces.

 

[Rocket354]

Here’s the thing. His YouTube content has some great instructional content but it is not THE INSTRUCTIONAL CONTENT. The YouTube is advertisements for the material on his site. The videos sold on his site also is also better instructional content, buts also not THE INSTRUCTIONAL CONTENT. The real deal is the e-books that accompany his videos. Those are best downloaded, taken to a print shop and produced into spiral bound notebooks.

Learning is not done from watching its done from doing. The e-books will have exercises for you to go through to develop your stance, grip, bridges, stoke, stun, high action, low action, precision, ball pocketing, center ball patterns, half table pattern play, full table pattern play, kicking, banking, etc. The videos scratch the surface of reinforcing some of it. If you actually work through the exercises then you’ll see the interplay to the e-books and videos. And you’ll get a strong taste of his instructional style which will do those same activities but with in personal accountability, real time feedback, and grueling long hours.

He’s not someone trying to just swoop in, clean up your fundamentals, and then leave you with some things to think about. You’re going to work hard. You’ll get sore. You’ll build up your shot repertoire and improve your pattern selection. And if you do his content by yourself then you’ll see the benefits similarly. If you watch his Great 14-day Experiment videos after actually giving the program a shot, you’ll recognize the drills he’s having them do. It’s all right there for you to self learn if you try.

But sadly most people will only ever watch his videos, feel impressed by how well they’re produced, and not realize how much of the iceberg was below the surface.

Thanks for your input. You didn't state it directly, but have you had in-person instruction from him?

I am looking for more serious training opportunities. I'd like someone to evaluate my stroke and fix flaws, and to give me drills to practice my stroke. Also drills for ball control, as needed. But there are many drills out there. Are Tor's worth all the money?

Part of my desire for in-person instruction is making sure the feedback I'm getting is specific to my own current needs and to get put on the correct path. Having a packet of drills that gives me hundreds of hours of practice is useful, but ultimately destructive if I, for example, have a fatal flaw in my stroke. Then I'm just setting in stone poor form that will then need twice as much time or more to break back down.

 

[Rocket354]

The vast majority of people seeking pool instruction want a couple of hours of lessons to fix a couple of things in their fundamentals, learn how to hit the cue ball accurately, and play a little position. Maybe draw the ball for the first time in their life. I'd say that fewer than 5%, or maybe even 1% can arrange to do even two hours of practice a week. Maybe that's from other time commitments or just due to a luke-warm interest in the game. The kind of player witnessed above who will work hard on their game in a structured format for a hundred hours is unusual. The player who will put in 1000 hours is rare. Those hours are not knocking balls around or even playing the ghost -- they are conscious, directed work on specific skills.

I don't know what the average person seeking instruction desires. For me, I have my own pool table and a willingness to practice 3-4 nights/week at 2+ hrs per session. I would like to make those sessions more productive. I've already spent the last two years completely breaking down and rebuilding my stroke. Seeing how hard that has been, I would like to get started in the right direction with other aspects of my game, rather than give myself more bad habits that need to be excised.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I don't know what the average person seeking instruction desires. For me, I have my own pool table and a willingness to practice 3-4 nights/week at 2+ hrs per session. I would like to make those sessions more productive. I've already spent the last two years completely breaking down and rebuilding my stroke. Seeing how hard that has been, I would like to get started in the right direction with other aspects of my game, rather than give myself more bad habits that need to be excised.

That level of dedication is rare. You seem to be along a good path. Have you had in-person instruction before?

 

[MattPoland]

Thanks for your input. You didn't state it directly, but have you had in-person instruction from him?

I am looking for more serious training opportunities. I'd like someone to evaluate my stroke and fix flaws, and to give me drills to practice my stroke. Also drills for ball control, as needed. But there are many drills out there. Are Tor's worth all the money?

Part of my desire for in-person instruction is making sure the feedback I'm getting is specific to my own current needs and to get put on the correct path. Having a packet of drills that gives me hundreds of hours of practice is useful, but ultimately destructive if I, for example, have a fatal flaw in my stroke. Then I'm just setting in stone poor form that will then need twice as much time or more to break back down.

I have not had in-person training from Tor. I have bought everything he’s sold, joined his Patreon, received virtual instruction from Zero-X (abandoned it quickly feeling it wasn’t personal enough and was unsure if it came from Tor directly, leveraged his e-books, and watched every YouTube video he published.) Sounds obsessive. But that’s for a reason. His kicking system is something I still use today and I’ve won matches with it (in leagues tonight). It’s how I was introduced to his body of work. So I really did obsess into his program and regret none of it. Still not pretending he gave me personal instruction because he didn’t. But I’d put him up there equal to Jeremy Jones, Bert Kinister, Jerry Briesath, and Johan Ruijsink. If I’m wrong about that, I’ll take it on the chin. But for familiarity, every clip I’ve seen in a 14-days Great Pool Experiment is 100% familiar to me in terms of his methods. That said, I did try to look up how his students are doing now from that series and wasn’t impressed by the FargoRates of them today (or me, to be honest). But I still believe in the merits of his approach, program, and knowledge.

 

[Rocket354]

That level of dedication is rare. You seem to be along a good path. Have you had in-person instruction before?

I have twice. Once years ago with a pro I won't name, but I was ultimately dissatisfied. But, in retrospect, I may not have been the most receptive and open-minded student.

The second time was with Scott Lee (RIP). He was very "by the manual" and I took a lot away that I incorporated into my stance and stroke.

I further refined my stance and stroke with Mark Wilson's book as my guide. I belive I am a significantly better and more consistent player now, at least in the execution of shots.

Now, I'd like to really iron out any remaining flaws in my stroke, and to feel confident that I have a personalized ideal stroke that I can stick with for the long-term. With that, I can really start focusing on developing other aspects of my game.

 

[QShark]

I don't really like Tor's material. I stick with three YouTubers: sharivari, Jasmin Ouschan and DrDave.

 

[FeelDaShot]

I fell in love with Tor's youtube content back in 2012 when I was just starting to get interested in pool but I haven't watched any of it since about 2014 or so. As a beginner there is a lot of good stuff to learn from him. As an advanced player, I don't think he would help much. His work is mostly focused on understanding position play. He had a bunch of kicking and banking systems too that required a lot of diamond counting and memorization which I didn't use much. I bought his book of ball pocketing drills and worked on them a lot which played a big role in my early stroke development and understanding of cue ball reaction paths.

It is pretty bizarre that no one seems to have ever seen him around at events or pool rooms. He's like a ghost. I've always wondered how well he can play.

 

[Bob Jewett]

.... Now, I'd like to really iron out any remaining flaws in my stroke, and to feel confident that I have a personalized ideal stroke that I can stick with for the long-term. With that, I can really start focusing on developing other aspects of my game.

Do you use video recording to look for flaws? Which aspects do you feel are missing from your game?

 

[buckshotshoey]

Kill me now!

Probably why I will never be all that good…

Pool is like sex... you don't have to be good at it to enjoy it!

 

[David in FL]

Pool is like sex... you don't have to be good at it to enjoy it!

Exactly!

I would rather play pool, than practice pool.

 

[JolietJames]

I liked what I saw from the 3 part mini clinic Mark Wilson put on at -Derby was it?
Scott Lee used video to help drive home proper fundamentals as well.
Bert did not use video, but he was excellent at finding and fixing mechanical flaws.
Bert's #1 student has some good stuff on his "Terminator Tips" YT channel.
New players have no idea how lucky they are to have access to a wealth of quality material on the web.

 

[Rocket354]

Do you use video recording to look for flaws? Which aspects do you feel are missing from your game?

I used video in my lesson with Scott. But after developing my stroke myself over the past two years from readings/videos I'd like confirmation from someone knowledgeable that what I'm doing is correct, and to incorporate any needed tweaks ASAP. All parts of my stroke are open for interpretation. My PSR. My approach. My stance. Pause at the ball. Backswing. Pause at the back. The actual stroke. Head placement. Eye movement. Arm slot angle. Grip.

For my game itself: break, shot selection, patterns, execution, banks, kicks, safeties, general strategy.

In short: everything.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I used video in my lesson with Scott. But after developing my stroke myself over the past two years from readings/videos I'd like confirmation from someone knowledgeable that what I'm doing is correct,...

I think just looking at a video of yourself shooting may do a lot towards that. You probably already know the sorts of things to look for.

 

[Rocket354]

I think just looking at a video of yourself shooting may do a lot towards that. You probably already know the sorts of things to look for.

I appreciate the feedback and you are correct to some degree. But I do want an outside opinion from a different perspective, as well.

 

[atlas333]

I don't know what the average person seeking instruction desires. For me, I have my own pool table and a willingness to practice 3-4 nights/week at 2+ hrs per session. I would like to make those sessions more productive. I've already spent the last two years completely breaking down and rebuilding my stroke. Seeing how hard that has been, I would like to get started in the right direction with other aspects of my game, rather than give myself more bad habits that need to be excised.

If you have the finances to buy the ICA projection system and work the drills that Robin has designed then you will be able to learn and teach yourself. Good luck.

 

[BryanB]

Tor came to my place daily for a week about 9 years ago. We worked 8-10 hours a day. We drilled over and over...and over...and over. He taught me a lot. My lessons were free and I cannot thank him enough.

 

[jokrswylde]

Tor came to my place daily for a week about 9 years ago. We worked 8-10 hours a day. We drilled over and over...and over...and over. He taught me a lot. My lessons were free and I cannot thank him enough.

What kind of measurable improvement did you see? Have you continued to improve or at least maintain over the last 9 years.

 

[Rocket354]

My lessons were free

How did you manage that?