No not referring to that. I was thinking of some of the other runs people mention that were continuations. For example, Evgeny Stalev ran 245 or something after a 150 and out. The exhibition high runs were often a continuation of a 150 or 200 and out.
Anyone have any information on Babe Cranfield’s 768
- Thread starter L.S. Dennis
- Start date
At one time most of the 14.1 World Championships were determined by challenge matches. The challengers were restricted to the high finishers in the previous tournament. Those challenges were sometimes arranged as continuous matches to lots of points. Towards the end of a session the balls would be marked at the time of a break shot and that position would be restored the following session. In such matches, the high run could theoretically be the length of the match.
As an example, in 1946 Mosconi played Irving Crane a match to 3750 for the World Championship.
Even with such chances, the highest match run before Appleton's 200-and-out was 182 by Joe Procita in a challenge match against Mosconi on a 5x10 table in 1954.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
For years Mosconi wouldn’t admit that he finally missed on that 526 run, then on page 167 of ‘Willies Game’ he finally said this:
“On March 19, 1954 in Springfield Ohio I ran 526 balls. I was playing a 200 point match against an amateur by the name of Earl Bruney at the East High Billiard Club. He made three balls off the break then I ran 200 and just kept going. The run took two hours and ten minutes, which means that over that span I averaged four balls per minute. I finally missed a difficult cut shot but by that time I as weary it was almost a relief to have it come to an end”
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we really should just list the top ten unofficial high 14.1 runs. that recognizes all the present and past champs.
and just recognize the official high run as one done during tournament conditions and verified.
this seems right as we dont have high runs for 8 ball, banks, 9 ball, etc.
and just recognize the official high run as one done during tournament conditions and verified.
this seems right as we dont have high runs for 8 ball, banks, 9 ball, etc.
NO-- In a 14.1 match to 200 points -- A player can be down 1, 2 or more from taking scratches intentionally - often at the beginning of play in 14.1- and then come to the table at say -2 and run to 200 for the win- they would have a competitive 202 run in 14.1 and wear the NEW crown!
I don't believe this is so.
I think there was one interview when he said he stoped. Willie died of complications of Alzheimers.
Lou Figueroa
I remember being on a business trip to Miami in 1994 and stepping into Congress Billiards in Miami just off the South Beach area that was undergoing reconstruction. I thought " this place looks like it has a ton of pool stories" and later reading DiLiberto's book - I realized that this was one of his mainstay rooms at one time.
Funny, that same trip I wandered by accident into old ABE Rich's STAR billiard cue shop on a small side road not far from where Congress Billiards stood. Old Abe was not too functional by then - I bought a Sneaky Pete from him and we had some great conversations. He was losing it though- I returned on another trip several months later and he never made the custom cue that I ordered- poor guy just kind of showed up every day at his shop to pass the time - he could not even recall my cue order that we had designed on paper that day before I left.
In competition, finishing a run beyond the winning score in competition was extremely rare. As a rule, it wasn't even permitted. The first time I saw it allowed was when Martin Kempter ran 160 in a race to 150 in what I believe was the Dragon 2008 World 14.1. The only other time I saw it happen was the run you mentioned, when Stalev ran 151 and out in a race to 200 in the Dragon 2014 World 14.1 and, about to unscrew, was talked into finishing his run by John Schmidt, ending on 224. With respect to the high run prize in that event, Stalev's run was counted as 151, just as it should have been. When Darren Appleton ran his 200, he was about to continue when Bustamante swept the balls, something I greatly approved of as tournament play should not permit continuation of runs beyond the winning number.
As you note, the longest exhibition runs were typically continuations beyond the winning number.
Yes, there were a few interviews with Willie where the question was asked about the run ending and he did say that he just stopped because he was tired. However, I did also see in print once a quote from him that he did miss a shot to end the run - so not sure which is the true version- is anyone around who witnessed the run - it was in the mid fifties, so possibly someone who was a young teen back then.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
I heard him say that he just stopped several times during tv interviews but of course nobody really believed that, Willie had quite an ego to be sure. Let’s face it nobody would stop at a number of 526? 550, 575, maybe.
It was rumored that he finally missed by bobbling a six ball in the the corner pocket, and I think this is probably pretty close to the case. Given those 15 times world titles he has to considered the best for that.
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middleofnowhere
Registered
The old Congress was a bowling alley. The pool area was a 22 table section leased by Abe Lipsy. It was open 24 hours a day and had probably as much action as any room in the country.
In the winter you could walk in and find world champions matching up for big money. Freddy the Beard lived there at one time. I have a picture around somewhere of him sleeping under the 6 x12. The desk man was the great Marcel Camp.
middleofnowhere
Registered
He missed. I used to see him in the 60's that was contempary to the run. I often saw him set up the shot he missed when asked about it. Years later he started saying the crazy thing he got tired and quit.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Do you remember exactly what the shot was that he missed, I’d heard it was the six ball in one of the corner pockets
middleofnowhere
Registered
Its like over 60 years ago but I remember it like this. Not an easy shot.
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L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Thank you for this, it’s been one of pool’s greatest mysteries
It wasn't when he had Alzeimers. His videos with Bill Fleming of ABC sports, he said he just quit. I think that video was something like the 60s, way before he had the disease.
I don't have a citation but my recollection is that he said it in a print interview.
There is also the point that he did quit on at least one 600+ ball run, the one witnessed by Ursitti.
Lou Figueroa
Well, whatever the case may be, there is no question that Mosconi could have run 600 plus - probably many times over, if there was some genuine incentive for him to spend time in his prime just trying to do that. I have watched him a few times in those interviews when he said that he was just tired and quit after 526, I think that, perhaps in that case maybe he did miss a shot; his responses in the interviews seemed more coming from ego than anything else.
On page 167 of Willie's own biography- "Willie's Game" he states that he missed a cut shot after 526 , but that he was very tired. Either way, I think it is great that we continue to pay homage to the guys who from the 1920s through the early 1960s kept this great game alive until Paul Newman and company opened up some eyes about it for a next generation. Also, I think the same homage can be paid to some of the guys who kept this game going during the pool famine years of 75-86 prior to the COM movie- I remember in my late teens and early 20s watching so many rooms close between 71 and 75. Glad I never gave up on the game
middleofnowhere
Registered
I think that is on youtube. What is great about it he plays a little straight pool. He's talking while he's shooting talking about the shots he is shooting and barely paying attention and he runs off like a quick 45 like there's nothing to it.
It's incredible the easy at which he played. Just watching him for me was always like therapeutic it made you go right to the table and feel like you could do the same thing he made it look so easy.
that's the thing I always liked about players like him and Ray Martin and Toby sweet those players that don't make the game look like you're going to the electric chair. they make it look like I can do this you can do it too.
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