Anyone know if Mosconi ever saw Efren play, and if so, .....

[jrctherake]

I love Efren, but Earl really should have won the COM... the first couple
of days he was playing in top gear, lights out.. then he starts with
the whining, complaining about people getting up, etc. starts staring
into space.. took himself right out of the match. Glad Efren won.

When Earl and Efren.... both was in their highest gears..... Earl won.

Earl was and has always been his own biggest enemy. Efren didn't beat Earl, Earl beat Earl.

To be up front, I'm a HUGE Efren fan. He is not only a EXTREMELY gifted player...... he is:

the best tempered individual I've ever met. His temperament is his BIGGEST asset when playing people as fierce as Earl was in his prime. Without it, Efren wouldn't have been in contention when Earl had his temporary come apart that lasted just long enough to allow Efren to pull it off.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Contrary to your beliefs, racism and bigotry is still happening today, if not necessarily you. Do you newch the News, any News? Trump Trump makes racist statements nearly every day. Do you tell Jewish people to stop whining about their Holocaust? If you see kids being raped in the Catholic Church, and don't say anything, you are complicit. If you sell Cadillacs, like irving Crane did, but Minorities can't come into the dealership to buy one, and you don't say anything, you are complicit. Moscow was ill-tempered, and intolerant, but one of the Greatest Straight Pool Players that ever lived, but he didn't give a Damn about equality, and neither did our Government, that enslaved and killed the Native Americans, Blacks, and Chinese. That's part of who Willie Mosconi was, you cannot change history. He didn't have to wear a KKK Hat. You are Clueless.

What a bunch of horseshit..

Mosconi was implicitly racist just for "not saying" more about blacks not being able to compete in championship events?

Did you even fooking READ his autobiography? Mosconi got to the point where he damn near hated the game, and made MUCH less money than Greenleaf did in his prime. He did a lot of exhibitions to pay the bills when pool was in the doldrums. There were years where there was no acceptable challenger to Mosconi's crown so there was no championship challenge for Mosconi to make money by playing.

If Mosconi had gotten up on a pedestal to start railing against the racism in pool, he would have immediately dried up 90% of the exhibitions in the southern states. That doesn't fookin' make him racist, it makes him unlucky to live in the time he did, and made him helples to do anything if he wanted his family to eat. There were plenty of young people who could (and did) fight against the racism of that time period. As the sold breadwinner of his family, Mosconi had responsibilities that didn't fall into your belief of what he "should" have been doing for civil rights.

Expecting the best player in the world at something to give up his livelihood to fight for civil rights is sheer liberal lunacy. Was your family around, and well-off enough to pay his bills once he pissed off all the southern pool hall owners?

Didn't think so. And this is why so many people hate you far-far-far-left nutjobs.. You don't think before you express an opinion, and you have a completely unjustified smug self-importance and too high an opinion of yourself. It blinds you to other viewpoints that are just as valid. And in this new age of everyone having the right to be offended, your type seems to get off on having asshole opinions that have absolutely no supporting evidence. It is so unfortunate that our society has evolved in such a way that politically, we are so splintered that a lot of people actually will look up to you for holding such an ignorant opinion, utterly devoid of any supporting facts.

 

[jrctherake]

What a bunch of horseshit..

Mosconi was implicitly racist just for "not saying" more about blacks not being able to compete in championship events?

Did you even fooking READ his autobiography? Mosconi got to the point where he damn near hated the game, and made MUCH less money than Greenleaf did in his prime. He did a lot of exhibitions to pay the bills when pool was in the doldrums. There were years where there was no acceptable challenger to Mosconi's crown so there was no championship challenge for Mosconi to make money by playing.

If Mosconi had gotten up on a pedestal to start railing against the racism in pool, he would have immediately dried up 90% of the exhibitions in the southern states. That doesn't fookin' make him racist, it makes him unlucky to live in the time he did, and made him helples to do anything if he wanted his family to eat. There were plenty of young people who could (and did) fight against the racism of that time period. As the sold breadwinner of his family, Mosconi had responsibilities that didn't fall into your belief of what he "should" have been doing for civil rights.

Expecting the best player in the world at something to give up his livelihood to fight for civil rights is sheer liberal lunacy. Was your family around, and well-off enough to pay his bills once he pissed off all the southern pool hall owners?

Didn't think so. And this is why so many people hate you far-far-far-left nutjobs.. You don't think before you express an opinion, and you have a completely unjustified smug self-importance and too high an opinion of yourself. It blinds you to other viewpoints that are just as valid. And in this new age of everyone having the right to be offended, your type seems to get off on having asshole opinions that have absolutely no supporting evidence. It is so unfortunate that our society has evolved in such a way that politically, we are so splintered that a lot of people actually will look up to you for holding such an ignorant opinion, utterly devoid of any supporting facts.

Good post!!!!!

It's hard to pull / help the idiot off the soap-box!

 

[lfigueroa]

lol.

Some of you guys are so far out in left field it’s more amusing than anything else.

Lou Figueroa
whew, lol

 

[jay helfert]

There was a comment made earlier that Democrats often makes accusations of Racism. There was a comment that suggested not getting your News from ABC, CBS , CNN, and MSNBC. However, its widely known that Fox News has Racist views, is a blind supporter of Trump’s lies and Racist rhetoric, and has made up many false stories and broadcast them. If you don’t know why Fox News is mentioned in conversations about racism and intolerance, you must not watch any News, or be living in a Cage. Cicero Murphy was racially prohibited from playing in Pool events, as were ALL OTHER BLACKS, so it’s strange that you State is as if he was the only Minority that was excluded. Cowboy Jimmy Moore did an interview from a Wheelchair in the late 12980’s, where he referred to Blacks as Coilored-Boys, and called Lou Butera as a “Hot Dago, when he beat him! This is the same era that Mosconi and Trump were born and raised in. All major Sports practiced racist desegregation in those days. You obviously need to read up on American History, you’ll find out that Blacks, Native Americans, and Chinese were discriminated against, killed, or enslaved! My God you are blissfully uninformed.

There is a forum section called Non Pool Related and that is where this belongs!

 

[pt109]

There is a forum section called Non Pool Related and that is where this belongs!

I agree...you can’t vote a ball into a pocket.

 

[Texdance]

I am so glad we live in the era of video recording and YouTube. We get to see a few recorded bits of matches from the fifties, parts of games played by famous guys like Harold Worst, Boston Shorty, and many others. But with the advent of Youtube and VCR recording, and now hi-res digital, the opportunity to watch pool games and entire matches from beginning to end in great quality has gone sky-high. Today watching tournament finals is limited only by our own budgets, and even then we can download many of them for free.

I like downloading Youtube vids of pool rather than watching the streaming. First, the comments suck big time, with very few exceptions. Second, with a download I can stop, fast forward, reverse, go frame by frame or slo-mo, whatever it takes to see the details of a shot, and sometimes even see the exact point where the cue hit the cue ball, or why a shot rattled and came back out. With higher resolutions even the point of cue contact becomes visible.

Had videos of Mosconi in his prime been available I don’t know if I would have watched them. I didn’t watch that great run of 426 or something from a recent attemnpt to break the Mosconi record, nor any of the Derby challenges in 14.1 But I can watch 3-cushion all day if only I can find matches in good quality to download.

Books and instruction can teach a lot, but there’s really nothing to compare to seeing Efren, Frost, Earl, Shane, my new favorite Filler the Killer, and a host of others play real games in real matches with money on the line. Ad in the great tables, cloth, balls cues, lighting and every other piece of equipment that has improved since Mosconi's day, and we are living in some sort of golden, or at least brass, age of pool viewership.

And not least of it is that everyone who wants to play gets a chance to play, regardless any remnants of racism that might or might not live in the hearts of players, promoters, bettors, and viewers.

 

[Pete]

Contrary to your beliefs, racism and bigotry is still happening today, if not necessarily you. Do you newch the News, any News? Trump Trump makes racist statements nearly every day. Do you tell Jewish people to stop whining about their Holocaust? If you see kids being raped in the Catholic Church, and don't say anything, you are complicit. If you sell Cadillacs, like irving Crane did, but Minorities can't come into the dealership to buy one, and you don't say anything, you are complicit. Moscow was ill-tempered, and intolerant, but one of the Greatest Straight Pool Players that ever lived, but he didn't give a Damn about equality, and neither did our Government, that enslaved and killed the Native Americans, Blacks, and Chinese. That's part of who Willie Mosconi was, you cannot change history. He didn't have to wear a KKK Hat. You are Clueless.

Obama too. All that hoopla with the cop from Cambridge was a racist act. I don't mean the cop (he might have done the same thing if it was a white guy too, I would have). But Obama got involve as a pr thing because of race. Racist in my book. But Dems find that OK...

 

[Runner]

When Earl and Efren.... both was in their highest gears..... Earl won.

Earl was and has always been his own biggest enemy. Efren didn't beat Earl, Earl beat Earl.

To be up front, I'm a HUGE Efren fan. He is not only a EXTREMELY gifted player...... he is:

the best tempered individual I've ever met. His temperament is his BIGGEST asset when playing people as fierce as Earl was in his prime. Without it, Efren wouldn't have been in contention when Earl had his temporary come apart that lasted just long enough to allow Efren to pull it off.

+1 ... I think Efren is the GOAT, perfect temperament at the table. Earl in top gear
at his peak was the best tournament 9 ball player ever. Now, 9 ball for the
cheese?.. there's a few... Keith, Parica...

 

[LeftyIke]

You don't know what I read. My comments were blocked for days. In Mosconi's day, Effren,Bustamante, Wu, Chang, and Alex P. couldn't have played. You asked about Mosconi, and jumped on tenfttall when he told you about Mosconi. You don't know what you're talking about, but put your head in the sand. You can't hide from the truth. I didn't say that Mosconi had to fighter Civil rights. Somebody did for Cicero, Jackie Robinson, and Chuck cooper.

 

[LeftyIke]

You have the audacity to call Obama racist for speaking up for dr. gates, and then criticize my comments because it's an indictment on America! That's Rich, you need to read, too.

 

[LeftyIke]

ShortBusRuss, you’re talking HorseShit. I’ve read about every Champion listed in the Books, from Taberski, DeOro, Jake Schaefer Sr. & Jr., Balsis, Greenleaf, Crane, Mosconi, Balsis, Babe Cranfield, all the way up to Mizerak, Rempe, Siegel, until Staright Pool started to decline. You’re getting personal, talking about ignorance, while you smugly assume that those that don’t agree with you are Far left,left, Nut-Jobs LOL! You sound like Trump, calling the Skin-Heads and KKK, good people on both sides. Stick to Pool, Mr. Conservative, you don’t enough about Politics to even make sense. I’ll put my knowledge about Pool Players, and their life-histories up against your anyday! I Love Pool as much as you all types of games, and I know that who you are is part of their total person. Earl’s attitude, Willie’s temperament, McCready’s Cockiness, and Effren’s laid-back demeanor are all part of who you are.

 

[pvc lou]

You write a lot, and it sounds pretty righteous and important...but, what's your point?

ShortBusRuss, you’re talking HorseShit. I’ve read about every Champion listed in the Books, from Taberski, DeOro, Jake Schaefer Sr. & Jr., Balsis, Greenleaf, Crane, Mosconi, Balsis, Babe Cranfield, all the way up to Mizerak, Rempe, Siegel, until Staright Pool started to decline. You’re getting personal, talking about ignorance, while you smugly assume that those that don’t agree with you are Far left,left, Nut-Jobs LOL! You sound like Trump, calling the Skin-Heads and KKK, good people on both sides. Stick to Pool, Mr. Conservative, you don’t enough about Politics to even make sense. I’ll put my knowledge about Pool Players, and their life-histories up against your anyday! I Love Pool as much as you all types of games, and I know that who you are is part of their total person. Earl’s attitude, Willie’s temperament, McCready’s Cockiness, and Effren’s laid-back demeanor are all part of who you are.

 

[LeftyIke]

My Point is, tenfttall was right about Willie Mosconi’s temperament. He was stand-offish and had a superiority attitude. Cowboy Jimmy Moore talked about it, in his interview, and said Mosconi was a “Bad Actor”. Moore said that in the Legends Tournament, in 1983 Mosconi finished 7th in the Tournament, but never mentioned it in his Book. He said that Willie sharked him by grabbing his Chest, after Willie had a Stroke, in front of Jimmy’s shot! He bragged on Mosconi’s talent, but he called it lying, to not mention when your Peers beat you. He talked about times he beat Mosconi and Mosconi diddn’t mention it in his Book-but mentioned his own Big wins and Come-Backs, Mosconi didn’t like most of his opponents, Mosconi was resentful if you beat him or weren’t well-dressed, he hated Fats, and would remind you that the audience came to see him. He said Mosconi didn’t like most of his opponents, but for some reason, like him, even though he called him “Macaroni”!! The interview is on YouTube, and Cowboy was telling Road-Stopries on many Great Players, and if he played them, and/or Beat them. Your Peers and Contemporaries know you Best! I read Fats Book, and the way Fats talked about Willie, too. Cowboy Jimmy Moore also mentioned that Fat’s was over-rated, Eddie Taylor wasn’t the best Banker ever, Lassiter was religious but wouldn’t gamble-but would chase Young Girls when he had a few drinks,and that he beat Eddie Taylor for the Cash in Banks! He highly praised Don Willis, called Black Players “Colored Boys”, said Cornbread was a decent Player-but not Top-Notch, said he beat Lassiter 90% of the time, and said Ronnie Allen couldn’t beat the Top Straight Pool players- but was good at One-Pocket-but not good enough to Give Cowboy 8-7 for the Cash. In other words, these insights help you understand the Whole Person. Pool today, doesn’t tell you about the Person behind the Stick, so the public doesn’t know who they are. You cvan’t promote them that way. Poker,Bowling, and Corn-holing is on T.V., but Pool isn’t! The Pool Players might as well have a mask on.

 

[jay helfert]

My Point is, tenfttall was right about Willie Mosconi’s temperament. He was stand-offish and had a superiority attitude. Cowboy Jimmy Moore talked about it, in his interview, and said Mosconi was a “Bad Actor”. Moore said that in the Legends Tournament, in 1983 Mosconi finished 7th in the Tournament, but never mentioned it in his Book. He said that Willie sharked him by grabbing his Chest, after Willie had a Stroke, in front of Jimmy’s shot! He bragged on Mosconi’s talent, but he called it lying, to not mention when your Peers beat you. He talked about times he beat Mosconi and Mosconi diddn’t mention it in his Book-but mentioned his own Big wins and Come-Backs, Mosconi didn’t like most of his opponents, Mosconi was resentful if you beat him or weren’t well-dressed, he hated Fats, and would remind you that the audience came to see him. He said Mosconi didn’t like most of his opponents, but for some reason, like him, even though he called him “Macaroni”!! The interview is on YouTube, and Cowboy was telling Road-Stopries on many Great Players, and if he played them, and/or Beat them. Your Peers and Contemporaries know you Best! I read Fats Book, and the way Fats talked about Willie, too. Cowboy Jimmy Moore also mentioned that Fat’s was over-rated, Eddie Taylor wasn’t the best Banker ever, Lassiter was religious but wouldn’t gamble-but would chase Young Girls when he had a few drinks,and that he beat Eddie Taylor for the Cash in Banks! He highly praised Don Willis, called Black Players “Colored Boys”, said Cornbread was a decent Player-but not Top-Notch, said he beat Lassiter 90% of the time, and said Ronnie Allen couldn’t beat the Top Straight Pool players- but was good at One-Pocket-but not good enough to Give Cowboy 8-7 for the Cash. In other words, these insights help you understand the Whole Person. Pool today, doesn’t tell you about the Person behind the Stick, so the public doesn’t know who they are. You cvan’t promote them that way. Poker,Bowling, and Corn-holing is on T.V., but Pool isn’t! The Pool Players might as well have a mask on.

You're quoting from an interview by one player! Other players may have had a different perspective. I don't have to read a book or watch a video interview Ike. I KNEW all these guys and spent time with all of them. Some of your quotes above are fairly accurate and others are not!

Fats was a huge media star and Mosconi resented that. Fats could out gamble any of them, even though he played a ball below them. Jimmy Moore was not as good a banker as Eddie Taylor PERIOD, and neither was Luther Lassiter, even if he did beat him in one match. Lassiter just happened to be a great gambler and for years was the best 9-Ball player (probably 14.1 also) in the country. He had little interest in women as well, preferring to stick to playing pool all his life. Lassiter beat Jimmy Moore in almost every tournament they played in. Jimmy didn't like to bet high without a backer and he did need a ball from Ronnie, as did everyone else but Taylor and Bugs. Jimmy wouldn't gamble with Ronnie on his best day at One Pocket.

Cornbread was a terrific high stakes player and totally fearless in any situation. Jimmy Moore might have been a better player for low stakes but wouldn't play if the bet got too high (like 500 or 1,000 a game 9-Ball which Red was known to play).

Mosconi could be an ass. That much is true, but he was undoubtedly the best Straight Pool player of his era and Jimmy Moore could never win a big 14.1 tournament. He was known for finishing second!

Just a little insight from someone who was there. :wink:

 

[Pete]

You have the audacity to call Obama racist for speaking up for dr. gates, and then criticize my comments because it's an indictment on America! That's Rich, you need to read, too.

The post I replied to was you bringing race into politics and attacking our president. I see that Horse poop all the time on Facebook. Obama's handling of that was race driven period. And I suspected (and you confirmed) that you are against Trump and wanted to have a place to voice it. I just pointed out that he isn't the only racist out there. But of course you won't see that.

Next you'll preach about all the White Privilege Mosconi had.

Good Day sir. I Said Good Day...

 

[pvc lou]

You are all over the place, sir. Here's what I managed to decipher from your rant: "My point is...bla bla..Mosconi was a d1ckhead...bla bla bla...Jimmy said..bla bla bla blabla colored boys...person behind the stick...bla bla.

What are you so wound up over? I don't get it, but you're funny.

Love,

lou

My Point is, tenfttall was right about Willie Mosconi’s temperament. He was stand-offish and had a superiority attitude. Cowboy Jimmy Moore talked about it, in his interview, and said Mosconi was a “Bad Actor”. Moore said that in the Legends Tournament, in 1983 Mosconi finished 7th in the Tournament, but never mentioned it in his Book. He said that Willie sharked him by grabbing his Chest, after Willie had a Stroke, in front of Jimmy’s shot! He bragged on Mosconi’s talent, but he called it lying, to not mention when your Peers beat you. He talked about times he beat Mosconi and Mosconi diddn’t mention it in his Book-but mentioned his own Big wins and Come-Backs, Mosconi didn’t like most of his opponents, Mosconi was resentful if you beat him or weren’t well-dressed, he hated Fats, and would remind you that the audience came to see him. He said Mosconi didn’t like most of his opponents, but for some reason, like him, even though he called him “Macaroni”!! The interview is on YouTube, and Cowboy was telling Road-Stopries on many Great Players, and if he played them, and/or Beat them. Your Peers and Contemporaries know you Best! I read Fats Book, and the way Fats talked about Willie, too. Cowboy Jimmy Moore also mentioned that Fat’s was over-rated, Eddie Taylor wasn’t the best Banker ever, Lassiter was religious but wouldn’t gamble-but would chase Young Girls when he had a few drinks,and that he beat Eddie Taylor for the Cash in Banks! He highly praised Don Willis, called Black Players “Colored Boys”, said Cornbread was a decent Player-but not Top-Notch, said he beat Lassiter 90% of the time, and said Ronnie Allen couldn’t beat the Top Straight Pool players- but was good at One-Pocket-but not good enough to Give Cowboy 8-7 for the Cash. In other words, these insights help you understand the Whole Person. Pool today, doesn’t tell you about the Person behind the Stick, so the public doesn’t know who they are. You cvan’t promote them that way. Poker,Bowling, and Corn-holing is on T.V., but Pool isn’t! The Pool Players might as well have a mask on.

 

[fan-tum]

You're quoting from an interview by one player! Other players may have had a different perspective. I don't have to read a book or watch a video interview Ike. I KNEW all these guys and spent time with all of them. Some of your quotes above are fairly accurate and others are not!

Fats was a huge media star and Mosconi resented that. Fats could out gamble any of them, even though he played a ball below them. Jimmy Moore was not as good a banker as Eddie Taylor PERIOD, and neither was Luther Lassiter, even if he did beat him in one match. Lassiter just happened to be a great gambler and for years was the best 9-Ball player (probably 14.1 also) in the country. He had little interest in women as well, preferring to stick to playing pool all his life. Lassiter beat Jimmy Moore in almost every tournament they played in. Jimmy didn't like to bet high without a backer and he did need a ball from Ronnie, as did everyone else but Taylor and Bugs. Jimmy wouldn't gamble with Ronnie on his best day at One Pocket.

Cornbread was a terrific high stakes player and totally fearless in any situation. Jimmy Moore might have been a better player for low stakes but wouldn't play if the bet got too high (like 500 or 1,000 a game 9-Ball which Red was known to play).

Mosconi could be an ass. That much is true, but he was undoubtedly the best Straight Pool player of his era and Jimmy Moore could never win a big 14.1 tournament. He was known for finishing second!

Just a little insight from someone who was there. :wink:

Jay, how did R.Allen match up with the following....Staton,Cornbread, and Breit ( in 1-pocket)? Would Fats or Toof play him?
At the Stardust, I watched Toof make that old bet the Beanie couldn't run 8 in 3 consec. racks for big bucks. And when Staton did it, Toof exploded calling him a lock-up artist.
I wish people could have seen Beanie that day,white suit, long white hair as he entered the practice room looking as cool as the coolest Joe cool ever, knowing he owned the room.

 

[LeftyIke]

Jay, I didn’t say that Cowboy Jimmy Moore was the only interview I’ve ever heard or read, or that everything he said was Gospel-truth! I read Fats opinions, I read Mosconi’s Book, Cornbread’s Book, and many more, Bob Byrne’s Books, and more, including Video interviews. I honor and respect your opinion, too. All of them help form opinions on the Great Players and characters. Fats said that Eddie Taylor was hands-down the Best banker ever, while others say that Bugs was the Best, and some say Brumback was. Don’t you think that I know that opinions vary? For example, many believe that Willie Hope, and Raymond Ceulemans wer much more dominant in their games than Mosconi. Again opinions, but cuelemans has 35 World Championships, 48 European Titles, and 61 National Titles! It’s a different game, but I’m talking about dominance. I Love Mosconi’s game, who doesn’t, his Skill and Cue-Ball contra are legendary, and his reputation as a Champion is justified, and cannot be questioned, although other authorities like you, say that Greenleaf was just as talented. You do realize that you don’t have to travel with Great Players to write about them ,Coach therm, judge them, or sometimes even Coach them, don’t you. Some of the Greatest Coaches and Instructors ever, weren’t Great Players. I don’t form my opinions totally from one person’s perspective. I respect your History and track-recorded, I respect Lou’s opinion- and you Guys attack him too, when he doesn’t agree with you! Pete do you honestly think that RTace isn’t involved in Politics?? Look at what “Our President” is saying nearly everyday? Are World Leaders and Reporters from all over the World calling him Racist? You can’t be serious! He liners and makes Racist statement more than any President in recent times, that’s a Fact! Where’s have you been? YTou don’t have to be a Democrat or Republican to verify that. Fact-Check is non-Party dependent, but they verify statements. Are they attacking the President for no reason? You too, are Clueless. I never said that Cowboy Jimmy Moore was the Greatest Pool Players ever, or the Ultimate Authority on Pool Players! LOL!

 

[LeftyIke]

Pete you do know that White Privilege exists, there is a White Privilege Conference that;’s held every year since 2000, and that I didn’t invent it, don’t you? Did babe Ruth and Willie Mosconi have to compete against anyone other than other Whites, Pete? Did Jackie Robinson win rookie-of-the Year, Aston as he was allowed to play and became one of the Greatest Baseball players of All-Time, in his third-best Sport? Would Effren, Bustamante, Wu, Alex P., Pqarica, and Chang have been allowed to play in Willie Mosconi’s early days? Isn’t Pool better off, that we were able to see this diversity improve the Game and allow us to see different ways to play? I wish that Mosconi, in his Prime, could’ve played against Reyes, Hohmann, Alex P., John Schmidt, even Kaci in Straight Pool. I wish Eddie Taylor, Ronnie Allen, Bugs,Effren, Alex P., and other could’ve matched up in One-pocket and Banks. Guess who wouldn’t have been allowed to play in the 40’s/50’s/60’s? By the way, I spent many evenings at The Rack, one of the Greatest Venues for Gampling ever, and saw many of the Greatest play, in person. Her in the Detroit-Area, I saw Cornbread Red play often, I saw Bugs play often, and I talked to John McHenry, who took Bugs on the Road, and they told me a lot about who could play, play for Cash, and who was over-rated. I don’t get all of my information from YouTube Videos, this was before YouTube was invented! LOL!