Trolling since 2011, that's impressive! I reported him, hope it helps.
Anyone know if Mosconi ever saw Efren play, and if so, .....
- Thread starter fan-tum
- Start date
Trolling since 2011, that's impressive! I reported him, hope it helps.
I didn’t start out calling people stupid Lefties, telling them where to get their News, and calling them Fooking Idiots and Lions! That’s personal, and I have the right to my opinions, which I supported, while I defended tenfttall. Jay Helfert didn’t call people names, Lou Figueroa didn’t insult anybody, tenfttall didn’t either. You need to be able to defend your position without disrespecting others, or calling them names. In today’s time, especially on the Internet, someone might disagree with you. I can defend myself, Keyboard Gangster!
Hey lefty-the-racist:
I was not speaking to you mam / sir but, since you showed your level of intelligence I will take you at your word mam / sir.
Like others have said, this type conversation should be in the NPR section.
I reported his post as well. If everyone would do the same it may be enough to cause positive action.
He / she is starting to be a negative poster to say the least. At least in this part of the site.
Tell them to stop calling people Idiots and Loons, telling them where to get their News, telling them not to criticize the President, or what to think, and we can stay civil. Tenfttall said that he/she believed that Mosconi would have a racist reaction, and I agreed. We have a right to our opinions. I remember you guys jumping on the Gentleman that felt that Shane hasn’t proven himself on the World Stage! He was entitled to his opinion, whether they agreed or not. Learn some manners.
Ronnie had to give Beenie (Staton) two balls or more to get him down. Maybe something like 8-6, 9-7 would be about right. Cornbread might get 8-7, 9-8, although I never saw those two match up. Not sure why. Ronnie did play Jersey Red (Breit) several times and gave him 9-8 and won and 8-7 and lost. 9-8, 8-7 was a break even game for both of them.
Fats would play anybody if the game was right. He was an equal opportunity robber :wink:. He beat Ronnie's buddy Richie Florence for over 20K getting 8-7. Ronnie offered Fats the same game but Fatty wanted no part of it. He might have played at 8-6 but that never happened. Fats played very good One Pocket, contrary to what many people say about him. He banked great cross corner, almost never missing.
Not sure who Toof is. Maybe you mean Bucktooth. He and Ronnie did play a gaff game where Ronnie gave Tooth 3-1 at One Pocket. I'd rather not comment on that game since they both were friends of mine and it would do no good to make aspersions about them.
Last edited:
Jay, why did so many people criticize Fat’s game? Was it because he bragged a lot, which isn’t unusual in the Pool Eorld, or maybe out of jealousy after he changed his name, after the Hustler came out? He was good for Pool, brought interest and Fans to the game, and seemed to runout well whenever I watched him play. Of course he bragged in his Book, but he seemed very complementary toward other Great Players. I think Willie Mosconi was jealous of his popularity, and felt that it was undeserved, to some extent. Did Harold Worst ever play Fats ,Taylor, Buddy Hall, or Mosconi for the Cash? I heard that they all ran from Worst. Thank you, your knowledge is incredible.
Many players were jealous of Fat's fame and stardom. They knew his stories weren't true (maybe somewhat true in some cases) but they didn't like that people believed he was the greatest player and was now making big money from his celebrity. They failed to see that he was bringing a lot of recognition to the game. Most players just sat back and enjoyed his show. He was really funny and entertaining and yes, he could play.
Worst was kind of after Mosconi and before Buddy in terms of their peaks. Remember Harold only had a short span of maybe five years on top of the pool world before he died at age 37. He did play Taylor a few times in tournaments (Johnston City and the Stardust) with mixed results (Worst had a winning record against everybody!). They never gambled as far as I know. I don't think Taylor wanted to play him and Harold was not the hustler type who would go after someone. I think he enjoyed Fats for who he was and didn't want to rain on his parade. Harold was a very intelligent man and he understood what Fats was all about.
Jay, did Fats really call himself Omaha Fats, then New York Fats, Triple Smart Fats, before settling on Minnesota Fats, after The Hustler came out? It’s funny to think about Fats’ stance, which proves that you don’t have to put your chin on the stick, like Hoppe and McCready showed that you don’t have to have a Pendulum stroke!
I think Parica was the toughest for the money for a long time (I think his only rival was Buddy Hall), and he definitely has a winning record in tournament play against Efren. I saw Jose beat Efren 13-4 in the finals of a big 9-ball tournament at Hollywood Billiards in Los Angeles about 15-20 years ago.
Omaha Fats was a different guy. Fats was known as New York Fats before the movie came out and took advantage of it by changing his name and suing 20th Century Fox and Walter Tevis for using "his" name. He lost the ensuing lawsuit but not the right to continue to use that name.
Parica was the best rotation game player in the world for about two decades! NO ONE (including Buddy who ducked him) could beat him for the cash! Not Efren, not Earl, not Johnny, not anyone! Even when Mark Tadd was challenging the world to play, he excluded Parica from the challenge! I watched him turn Jose down for a game at the Bicycle Club in L.A. No one wanted any part of Jose back then. He was really the King of the Hill!
That's a tough question. IMO Parica is the best Rotation game player I ever saw, and that includes EVERYONE else! He played at his highest and best level for the cash, the bigger the better. He was a fearless and ravenous competitor.
I still think Ronnie would have given the present day One Pocket champs fits. He knew stuff about the game that no one knows or uses today. I don't see ANY players shooting the shots he would regularly shoot and execute well; the three rail kicks into the pack for lock up safeties when he was in a dead trap, the two rail banks into the pack that drove multiple balls toward his pocket, the super accurate kicking of balls to his pocket and leaving the cue ball safe. No one does that like him, before or since. Add in his great gambling ability and confident conversation, and he was a hard man to beat. That's why no one could beat him at his best for the better part of two decades. He did have a loss here and there (Bugs for one), but overall he was The Man!
As for the rest of the present day One Pocket champs, they are just as good or better than the greats of the past (Ronnie excepted). It's so hard to compare them with the very different table conditions they play on today. I see some excellent play from many of the current players, but I'm not sure they know all the moves that the previous generation knew. I see a lot of mistakes today and some missed opportunities from top players that baffle me. You couldn't make a mistake playing somebody like Boston Shorty, Ed Kelly, Jersey Red or Eddie Taylor. They would crush you if you did. Efren is the exception, rather than the rule. Like Ronnie, he took the game to a new level. His great skill was also his creativity and his cue ball control was the best of anybody ever, Ronnie included. Efren is the only guy I've ever seen run eight and out when all the balls are down table. He would bank the first one and then get behind the balls and keep playing position until he was out. I saw Ronnie run balls when they were all down table but it was one bank after another, and maybe he got behind the last two or three balls.
At Straight Pool it's another story. Despite all the big runs we are seeing today, I still think Mizerak! and Sigel were superior players, and Lou Butera could run more balls consistently than most of today's greats. He didn't need ten tries to run 200 balls. He could do it every day, in a match! No one could beat him in a long exhibition (like 200 points a day until someone gets to 1,000 or 1,500). The Miz and Sigel knew more about playing the GAME, with high quality safeties and a fuller understanding of the pack.
You didn't ask, but as good as the current crop of Bank Pool players are, Eddie Taylor would have swept them all under the rug. The difference is that today's players can make all the shots but they also miss some of the routine ones. Taylor didn't! He would make ALL those cross sides and cross corners all day and night for hours at a time before missing one (and almost all open long rail banks as well). Bugs shot long rail banks better than anyone ever, maybe even Taylor. He knew how to cross a long rail bank accurately, which is not an easy thing to do. And both he and Taylor could twist banks that didn't go and make them go. I'm not sure if that is as doable on today's cloth though.
Last edited:
1. Parica. 2. Efren 3. Orcullo 4. Alex 5. Francisco
But the difference are razor thin and they vary from game to game, and also from day to day.
That's some good stuff right there!!!!! Thanks
(I might even have to buy your books LOL)
Omaha Fats was a different guy. Fats was known as New York Fats before the movie came out and took advantage of it by changing his name and suing 20th Century Fox and Walter Tevis for using "his" name. He lost the ensuing lawsuit but not the right to continue to use that name.
My recollection is that the issue was not the name.
After all, Fats never went anywhere near Minnesota. It was his assertion that Tevis had based the character, Minnesota Fats, on Mr. Wanderone. Fats cited numerous similarities between the character in the book and himself, to include a particular facial tick.
Tevis always denied the MF character was based on any actual player, though Mosconi did say the contrary in an interview.
Lou Figueroa
Thank you, Jay! That’s great insight, and that’s what makes you, Billy Incardona, Grady Matthews, John McHenry, DiLiberto(regardless of the criticism of today’s players), and Cornbread, Lou Figueroa, and Freddy the Beard, so valuable! I would listen to the insights and Road Stories from Gentlemen like you, the Road Players, and the Backers, like a Kid listening to his Dad or Grandad tell stories-completely Starstruck! I really appreciate your knowledge. Today’s Fans, in Pool and many other Sports, don’t want to give credit to the Greats that were so dominant, and paved the way. I know that the Balls and table conditions have changed, but that might mean that the older players were much better at some things! The older players and Backers told me, that if you put today’s players on 5x10’s, with slow cloth and Mud Balls, you’d find out that today’s players weren’t as good. They also didn’t like One-foul, Ball-In-hand Rotation Games, especially 9-Ball! We didn’t even play 8-ball with Ball-in-hand. Today, they Foul, by moving a Ball, and they want to put it back, and keep shooting!