APA 6 vs. BCA Advanced level player. What is a fair spot?

JohnnyShakes

JohnnyShakes

Hill/Hill w/ 1 ball ghost
Silver Member
Just looking for opinions and I didn't know a better way to describe the differences in our respective levels of play. He is listed as an Advanced player in BCA. I'm a 6 in APA and an 8 in my BCAPL league (on a 10 point scale there). I matched up in a quick race to 5 playing bar box 9 ball with a much better player than me getting the breaks and the last 3. I lost 5-3, but I scratched on 4 of my first 5 breaks, leaving pretty easy runs. Does this sound like a fair spot? How would you handicap say a C+ player playing a AA to make it a fair race on a bar table if the race were longer? I'm not sure I like my odds, but I feel like I can win if I play well. I don't want too much weight, because I want the pressure of having to play well, but I'm not mad at my money, either. I also don't like asking for weight, but it was offered and I wouldn't play even for anything that would be worth his time.

Just looking for some thoughts. I appreciate any responses.

Johnny
 
Short race can actually benefit you, but you have to..have to..have to
BREAK BETTER then that!
Obviously, I am not sure how your are breaking. Dial it in. Try to squat whitey in the middle of table. People tend to over hit bar-boxes all the time and it tends to cause to much chaos.
Anyway, If this guy is able to run out from anywhere it might not matter about giving him a spot. He probably should beat you even if you got the breaks, and 5 & out.
Again, the short race helps you. You could get to five before him. If you lengthen the race you might not fair well.
For example you said you lost 5-3. Double it you lose 10-6, double again you lose 20-12, once more for the hell of it 40-24. Margin gets bigger.
 
I was always taught if you cant play even with somebody than don't play them. I know this isnt what you are looking for but handicapping is trouble on both ends..

Sometimes its not enough to win and if you destroy the guy (he lets you win) than you lose the spot.

The last time i was playing set races to 9 the guy wanted to play one-pocket instead of nine ball... I said no and he opted to play the race to 9 of 9 ball for $50. I smash the guy 9-2 and he immeditally ask me for a spot. I said no I dotn spot people ever.. He complained about me being up and him not being a 9 ball player and this and that :rolleyes:

FINE!!!! I gave him the 8 ball and the breaks. My break was horrible on this table and i was dunking the cueball a little too much so... I figured giving him the break (his was much weaker) was to my advantaged..

So he wants to double the set for a hundred.. I was playing really good and feeling confident about my game (thought i was at least 2 balls better than him) so i agreed. After watching the opening break i knew i was cooked!!! Wing ball in the corner and the one in the side and shape on the 2 ball... The rack opened up perfect for him and his stroke was a lot more steady. I lost 9-3 and quit him telling him i was too drunk (was drinking but nothing outragous) to play but will play him again sometime. I have his number and have a game anytime i want one but i will tell you this.. Even up or nothing :angry:
 
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Taking into a account the Arizona Rating system and players that are rated as APA 6's and BCA Advanced Players I'll try and break down the weight I'm guessing is close.

APA 6's are probably Arizona 6's or 7's.
BCA Advanced are probably Arizona 9's or 10's.

So we are looking at a range of 2-4 ratings.

For a full race, your looking at a 10-6 race.

Of course that still benefits the higher player. I would say maybe a 8-4 race or 9-5.

You don't need the breaks, it doesn't benefit you in anyway unless you can break and run out a couple racks.
 
Thanks to everyone for the responses. And yes, that was an atypical break performance for me. I usually am able to keep the cue ball near the center of the table, I was just overhitting those early breaks. Once I took some speed off I stopped scratching. I also switched from the cut break to a more head on break. I think I just dug myself into too big of a hole early on. The last time I played someone this guys speed in a handicapped tournament it was a 10-2 race on a big table, which was way out of line (I won 2-5). I was still new back then, and the game would probably be around 9-4 or 10-4 now, which would be a more fair game.

On a bar table, even though it hurt me this time, the break is a huge advantage for me because it keeps him from putting packages on me. If we played winner breaks I might not get to shoot. I've seen him run 5 packs on a bar table like it was nothing. But if I can keep from giving him easy shots, I can hang with him with the last three, I think. Not scratching on the break is a huge start to that. I just wanted to get some more opinions on if that weight seemed fair or out of line. I had a guy tell me I need the breaks, ball in hand after the breaks and the 5 out. That seems way out of line, and I'd feel like I was stealing. I'm honestly not sure if he would get to shoot if he spotted me that. I know the last 3 and the breaks is a pretty big spot, I just wanted to see if people think that is out of line given our differing skill levels. I've never gambled getting weight before, so this is kinda new to me. Glad I have all of AZ to ask.

Johnny
 
stuckart said:
You don't need the breaks, it doesn't benefit you in anyway unless you can break and run out a couple racks.
Click to expand...

Tap, tap, tap,

It can actually HURT you to have the break in 9-ball and not be able to run-out consistently. You remove 3 or 4 balls off the table then miss, it spells impending doom against an advanced player, and most of the APA 6's I've seen do not run-out consistently!!!

Maniac
 
JohnnyShakes said:
Just looking for opinions and I didn't know a better way to describe the differences in our respective levels of play. He is listed as an Advanced player in BCA. I'm a 6 in APA and an 8 in my BCAPL league (on a 10 point scale there). I matched up in a quick race to 5 playing bar box 9 ball with a much better player than me getting the breaks and the last 3. I lost 5-3, but I scratched on 4 of my first 5 breaks, leaving pretty easy runs. Does this sound like a fair spot? How would you handicap say a C+ player playing a AA to make it a fair race on a bar table if the race were longer? I'm not sure I like my odds, but I feel like I can win if I play well. I don't want too much weight, because I want the pressure of having to play well, but I'm not mad at my money, either. I also don't like asking for weight, but it was offered and I wouldn't play even for anything that would be worth his time.

Just looking for some thoughts. I appreciate any responses.

Johnny
Click to expand...

It's hard to say what is a fair spot based on the information you provide here. I think everyone would agree that seeing both players actually play is necessary. In my opinion, the last 3 isn't bad. I think getting the 6-ball is comparable weight which is where I think "fair" begins.

EDIT - sorry, my math is all wrong. You need more weight. You need more than the last 3. I'd go with the 7-out.
 
Johnny ... Text me on who you were playing and I can help you with your spot :) Try to get some games on the wire next time. Or we can just play for push ups again ;)
JohnnyShakes said:
Just looking for opinions and I didn't know a better way to describe the differences in our respective levels of play. He is listed as an Advanced player in BCA. I'm a 6 in APA and an 8 in my BCAPL league (on a 10 point scale there). I matched up in a quick race to 5 playing bar box 9 ball with a much better player than me getting the breaks and the last 3. I lost 5-3, but I scratched on 4 of my first 5 breaks, leaving pretty easy runs. Does this sound like a fair spot? How would you handicap say a C+ player playing a AA to make it a fair race on a bar table if the race were longer? I'm not sure I like my odds, but I feel like I can win if I play well. I don't want too much weight, because I want the pressure of having to play well, but I'm not mad at my money, either. I also don't like asking for weight, but it was offered and I wouldn't play even for anything that would be worth his time.

Just looking for some thoughts. I appreciate any responses.

Johnny
Click to expand...
 
Maniac said:
Tap, tap, tap,

It can actually HURT you to have the break in 9-ball and not be able to run-out consistently. You remove 3 or 4 balls off the table then miss, it spells impending doom against an advanced player, and most of the APA 6's I've seen do not run-out consistently!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...

As I mentioned previously, getting the breaks keep him from putting packages on me. I may not run out consistently but it keeps him from putting packages on me. His break is a lot better than mine. But I do get what you are talking about. Against someone closer to my own level I would rather just play winner breaks.

Johnny
 
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