APA call at cities. U be the judge

I just got back from the VNEA tourney in Vegas. Of all the singles and team matches, only one team wanted to use a patch. The only reason was that a few years earlier, one of the players was in the finals of the scotch doubles. They agreed to not use the patch and everything was going smoothly until it reached hill-hill. The guy's partner was shooting the eight, and she called the pocket, and made the 8-ball. Yep, you guessed it...the other team called a patch foul, even though they agreed not to use it. I told the guy that if I ran the VNEA I would never let those two douches ever play in my league again. I mean how big of a nit can you be?

The team did not want to use the patch, but they were scared of something like this happening again. We talked and ended up just calling the pocket.
 
Big Perm said:
It appears the APA is adamant about shooting itself in the foot and promoting flat out cheating.....this is an embarrassing thread for the APA, one in an overflowing river of BS....

Come on guys, step up and make things better....

Used to play APA, we never marked pockets in most of the matches.....most matches, the first player would get to the 8, ask if he had to mark that corner pocket, we'd say no, and everyone would act like a human being, call their pocket, and there was never an issue.....

Now, the other 25% of the time, douchebaggery took over and the other team would make us mark pockets, just hoping to steal a game because somebody didn't mark a pocket, or used money, or some other crap....sad, really sad....
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This ^

:embarrassed2:
 
I knew there had to be more to this story!

Since, the OP refused to file a protest I figured there must be more to the story. Here is the e-mail I received from his league operator...(player names omitted)

"All players were told before the tournament that a pocket cannot be marked with chalk, money, anything to do with money or anything with monetary value. The player marked the pocket with a credit card. I saw the credit card. He admitted that he used a credit card. I don't like the rule but it IS a rule. The league year of 2009-2010 had a set of rules that I inherited. I can't change the rules until the league year 2010-2011. The "no money rule" as well the "no cell phone rule" have been removed and are not part of my bylaws. That aside, the "no money or anything having anything to do with money" rule was in place this year and the players were aware. Just so you know, the match he was referring to was the second match of the finals. His team lost the next two matches. His correspondence makes it appear that he was innocent and that his loss cost his team the final match. He was in fact blatantly guilty and his team lost the next two matches. I don't like the rule and decided to remove it prior to the tournament. Alas, when asked during the match for a ruling, I was left with little choice but to stand by the rules that were given at the pre-tournament meeting."
 
APA Gene said:
Since, the OP refused to file a protest I figured there must be more to the story. Here is the e-mail I received from his league operator...(player names omitted)

"All players were told before the tournament that a pocket cannot be marked with chalk, money, anything to do with money or anything with monetary value. The player marked the pocket with a credit card. I saw the credit card. He admitted that he used a credit card. I don't like the rule but it IS a rule. The league year of 2009-2010 had a set of rules that I inherited. I can't change the rules until the league year 2010-2011. The "no money rule" as well the "no cell phone rule" have been removed and are not part of my bylaws. That aside, the "no money or anything having anything to do with money" rule was in place this year and the players were aware. Just so you know, the match he was referring to was the second match of the finals. His team lost the next two matches. His correspondence makes it appear that he was innocent and that his loss cost his team the final match. He was in fact blatantly guilty and his team lost the next two matches. I don't like the rule and decided to remove it prior to the tournament. Alas, when asked during the match for a ruling, I was left with little choice but to stand by the rules that were given at the pre-tournament meeting."
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One problem, doesn't everything have something to do with money? Even the lint from my belly button can be sold on Ebay.
 
"All players were told before the tournament that a pocket cannot be marked with chalk, money, anything to do with money or anything with monetary value."


So you can't mark the pocket with ANYTHING? I like how the LO says he/she had to make the call. What a crock of BS.

It sounds like there are some differences in the story from the player and the LO but they both seem to agree the pocket marked didn't count because of using a credit card.
 
So what about this?

I wonder if the OP marked his pocket with EDDIE WHEAT BUCKS what the decision would be.:eek:

Michael
 
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Ah, if only some of our posters could read and comprehend the english language.

But where would be the fun in that?
 
Well!!!!

GoTulane said:
I wonder if the OP marked his pocket with EDDIE WHEAT BUCKS what the decision would be.:eek:

Michael
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I say this, because these might be the only things around that have NO MONETARY VALUE!!!!!

Everything else that can be used to mark a pocket will have some sort of monetary value - JUST NOT WHEAT BUCKS - SORRY EDDIE!!!!:p

Michael
 
What happened to you was one of the main reasons that I quit APA. The way I see it is that a player won a match fair and square and got robbed by a nit call. The main problem with that league is that there are way too many players trying to win a match by any method. Unfortunantly, I would bet that the LO was a friends with the team that got the trip.

In APA's defence however, in 1998 I was playing in Vegas for APA 8 ball team. On the table next to me there were two 6-7 handicap players having a great match and apparently, they had agreed to not mark the pocket. Well, sure as hell one of the team captains called foul when the opposing player pocketed the 8 without a marker. The ref who was nearby (and observing the match to a certain extent) asked what was up. The protesting teams player stated that they had agreed to not use the marker. His captain was still calling foul though. The ref let the game stand and told the protesting captain to please sit down and he was on a sportsmanship warning.

Sometimes, common sense needs to be applied. Not everyone has to be a jerk.
 
Doesn't matter

APA Gene said:
Since, the OP refused to file a protest I figured there must be more to the story. Here is the e-mail I received from his league operator...(player names omitted)

"All players were told before the tournament that a pocket cannot be marked with chalk, money, anything to do with money or anything with monetary value. The player marked the pocket with a credit card. I saw the credit card. He admitted that he used a credit card. I don't like the rule but it IS a rule. The league year of 2009-2010 had a set of rules that I inherited. I can't change the rules until the league year 2010-2011. The "no money rule" as well the "no cell phone rule" have been removed and are not part of my bylaws. That aside, the "no money or anything having anything to do with money" rule was in place this year and the players were aware. Just so you know, the match he was referring to was the second match of the finals. His team lost the next two matches. His correspondence makes it appear that he was innocent and that his loss cost his team the final match. He was in fact blatantly guilty and his team lost the next two matches. I don't like the rule and decided to remove it prior to the tournament. Alas, when asked during the match for a ruling, I was left with little choice but to stand by the rules that were given at the pre-tournament meeting."
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So, he said he saw it now? When I spoke with him, he said someone on the opposing team said they saw a mastercard symbol. Yes, it was the second match, which would have put us up 2-0. Instead, we went 1-1. And, he never admitted it was a credit card, it was a room key.

Here is another piece of evidence. After we celebrated the win, the other team threw there next player, and accepted the win. It wasn't until someone decided to "try" to get the call, that this all occured. After I spoke with the opposing team members, even some of them said it was worth a try to get the win.

So, even though the other team conceded, threw the next player, the call was still made. We didn't get a warning, just the call.

And, it isn't worth going to the league and appealing. We will just beat the piss out of them next round, and all use key cards, or whatever we find with a magnetic strip, or a picture of chalk.
 
APA Gene said:
There has got to be more to this story. I had a situation a few years ago where a player marked the pocket with is sunglasses but moved them a couple diamonds away so they weren't in his line of sight. The captain moved them closer and the guy shot the ball in the intended pocket and won the match. Of course the losing team tried to take away the game (unsuccessfully). All I can say if if this really happened then the losing team should file an official protest along with the $50 fee....assuming this really happened as described.
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$50 fee? your kidding right? no? another reason the APA SUCKS TO THE BONE. Why should they have to pay for something they already won. What a fuching farce you guys run there...Keep it up and someday the the APA will fold and I will be one Happy person. If I was on that team I would quit the APA league then tell everyone just how bad it has gotten and start up a new league like the BCA...jmho
 
This is a clear case of one bad apple spoils the bunch. You don't write off the entire league as garbage just because of one bad LO. Trust me that this can happen in other leagues. We had a marker fall off mid-stroke in the VNEA and they called it an unmarked pocket and a loss for us.

Of course, if the only way to experience the APA locally is to deal with that one retarded LO... :/
 
jrackman said:
$50 fee? your kidding right? no? another reason the APA SUCKS TO THE BONE. Why should they have to pay for something they already won. What a fuching farce you guys run there...Keep it up and someday the the APA will fold and I will be one Happy person. If I was on that team I would quit the APA league then tell everyone just how bad it has gotten and start up a new league like the BCA...jmho
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If you have a legitimate protest you file the protest with the $50 fee. If you win the protest you get the fee back. The fee eliminates frivolous protests (hopefully). :thumbup:

As for your wishes, sorry you feel that way. I played in the APA Pool League in 4 different league area in South and Central Florida from 1997- 2007 and loved the competition and the friendships made. Sorry that your experience was not as enjoyable. Personally, if someone can't enjoy themselves in an APA League it is not the league that is the problem. It really wouldn't matter the name on the door. They would probably be miserable regardless. IMO.

P.S. I sincerely doubt that you will every see your wishes come to fruition. You may want to consider focusing your energies on something more productive in life.:smile:
 
APA Gene said:
........ I played in the APA Pool League in 4 different league area in South and Central Florida from 1997- 2007 and loved the competition and the friendships made....
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Gene, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but my wild-guess is that you would have loved the competition and friendships regardless of a league, or no league, and whatever league "name on the door" you played. My guess is you enjoy pool and the competion on the table



APA Gene said:
........Personally, if someone can't enjoy themselves in an APA League it is not the league that is the problem. It really wouldn't matter the name on the door. They would probably be miserable regardless. IMO.....
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Gene, the people that don't enjoy the APA don't have the problem because of the pool competition... it's because of GOOFY!!! rules, double-top-secret handicap formulas that seem to change at the whim of the LO, people that take advantage (and cheat) with the handicaps (since it's double-top-secret, who's to know to complain?)... and Strange APA(or LO)-self-serving policies.

We want to play pool and win if we won, or lose if we lost.... not deal with all these strange shenanigans!
 
If the handicapping in APA is so fair and is done so well, why is there a 23 rule? That's the part I don't get. A team of all 2's should be the nuts right? Maybe it's all about the cash. The 23 rule is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. First we handicap individual players, then we handicap the team so you cant play with your buddies. It makes sense. Really fair to people who practice and play better over time. A lot of times good play gets rewarded with being kicked off a team or a team having to split up. Coool aint it.
 
JustinHayes said:
Gene, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but my wild-guess is that you would have loved the competition and friendships regardless of a league, or no league, and whatever league "name on the door" you played. My guess is you enjoy pool and the competion on the table





Gene, the people that don't enjoy the APA don't have the problem because of the pool competition... it's because of GOOFY!!! rules, double-top-secret handicap formulas that seem to change at the whim of the LO, people that take advantage (and cheat) with the handicaps (since it's double-top-secret, who's to know to complain?)... and Strange APA(or LO)-self-serving policies.

We want to play pool and win if we won, or lose if we lost.... not deal with all these strange shenanigans!
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You are correct. I would have had fun regardless. That was precisely my point. Every league has dumb rules but those are the rules. It is not the rules that create the issues it is people who are always trying to either fight the rules or the ones who always want to throw the book at you so they can win (when they should have lost). I personally don't care for or understand either group. Why not just win with class and lose with class? I put both groups of players in the same class as the parents whose kid is never at fault....it always the teacher, the system, the you name it...never their kid who did anything wrong.:D
 
mikeyfrost said:
If the handicapping in APA is so fair and is done so well, why is there a 23 rule? That's the part I don't get. A team of all 2's should be the nuts right? Maybe it's all about the cash. The 23 rule is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. First we handicap individual players, then we handicap the team so you cant play with your buddies. It makes sense. Really fair to people who practice and play better over time. A lot of times good play gets rewarded with being kicked off a team or a team having to split up. Coool aint it.
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The 23 rule is there to make the best attempt at having a fair match, when you factor in BEGINNERS. This league is not a top-level amatuer league. It is a casual league for people of all ablilities.

Say we go your route and have no limit on handicaps. Say my team has all SL4's and your team has all SL7's. In theory the handicap would make it an even match due to the difference in games necessary to win. (These would be 5-2 races.) That's all good in theory, but in practice, the SL7's are going to win the majority of the time. The handicap merely gives the lower level player a chance to compete with a player of better ability. If the player of higher skill plays the way they should, they will win most of the time. And that's the way it should be. If teams were allowed to have all SL6's and SL7's, the lower-ability people would stop playing over time, because they wouldn't have the ability to play against similar skilled opponents. And getting your brains beat in every week isn't gonna create an atmosphere for a fun night out playing pool.

(Before anyone starts, I know that playing against people better than you is the best way to improve. I spend lots of time getting my brains beat in, and enjoy it. I learn from it regularly. But the casual player isn't gonna want to do that, they just aren't. That is why this is the type of league that it is. Please stop trying to make it into something it isn't designed to be.)

I keep hearing about teams having to split up because of raised Skill Levels, and "I can't play with my friends anymore...." And I'm sure this happens, sometimes. But if these friends are serious pool players, they ought to know going into it that you won't be able to keep everyone together in such a system. This isn't a secret sprung on people once they've been playing for a while.

But those who want to complain, will surely do so. I understand the gripes about bad LO's; those are legitimate complaints, at least to me. Hopefully something will eventually be done to correct those issues. But all the other whining, ESPECIALLY about the 23 rule, is just plain silly.
 
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