APA Corruption..?

Rio19

Rio19

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello AZer's

I have been hearing horror stories about corruption in the APA for my year or so in. Today I a first hand look at what everyone in my league means. I live in area where the pool scene is pretty average at best so my league has 9 teams. Because the pool scene is small the APA is owned by a woman that lives in a different city 45 mins away.

Even though we are in the same league the only time we see the teams from the her city is when we have tri-cup or LTC's.

Today my team and I went to LTC's. Played the first match and won 55-45 (9ball) . After that match we had a 30min break and started the second match against one of her teams(as she calls the Lynchburg teams). At the start of the second match they put up a 6 so we do the same and she comes over and tells my teammate he has been moved to a SL7.

Now I am not the smartest person in the world but I am pretty sure that was wrong but because she is the LO there is nothing we can do about it but smile and take it up the rear raw. We lost that match because we couldnt make numbers and the messed up part is that next week the guy she screwed will be a 6 again.

It seems this is not the first time she has pulled this stunt on the Danville teams but what can we do about it. Anyone else here have any APA Corruption stories i would love hear about them.
 
Wow that is messed up. Surely there must be a way to report these things. Perhaps they should make it so that LO's cannot make their own teams in leagues that they operate. This would help avoid conflicting self-interests.
 
Rio19 said:
Hello AZer's

I have been hearing horror stories about corruption in the APA for my year or so in. Today I a first hand look at what everyone in my league means. I live in area where the pool scene is pretty average at best so my league has 9 teams. Because the pool scene is small the APA is owned by a woman that lives in a different city 45 mins away.

Even though we are in the same league the only time we see the teams from the her city is when we have tri-cup or LTC's.

Today my team and I went to LTC's. Played the first match and won 55-45 (9ball) . After that match we had a 30min break and started the second match against one of her teams(as she calls the Lynchburg teams). At the start of the second match they put up a 6 so we do the same and she comes over and tells my teammate he has been moved to a SL7.

Now I am not the smartest person in the world but I am pretty sure that was wrong but because she is the LO there is nothing we can do about it but smile and take it up the rear raw. We lost that match because we couldnt make numbers and the messed up part is that next week the guy she screwed will be a 6 again.

It seems this is not the first time she has pulled this stunt on the Danville teams but what can we do about it. Anyone else here have any APA Corruption stories i would love hear about them.
Click to expand...

I would start with a phone call or email to the LO to find out why your player was raised. If she claims it was done by the computer and your players record doesn't reflect a sl7 or it was a manual raise contact APA corporate to have them investigate the issue. Most LO's I have met will gladly explain why a player was raised and the scores that were the reason for their SL moving up.

Good Luck
 
I don't believe it, not in the APA. :rotflmao1:


Please say that this is a joke. :sad:


.
 
There are other options out there.

I might suggest the BCAPL - which is a round robin format with no national handicapp system - with the Nationals played by division.

Or the USAPL - which is a match play format.
It has a 'better' handicap system than the APA - and I think you will find fewer problems like those you described.

Either way, if your report is accurate, something needs to change.

Mark Griffin

BTE - you do NOT have to win a division etc to go to our nationals. All you have to do is be a member and play enough weeks. I think that alone makes it less incentive to 'manuever' your way to the top. Pool is supposed to be fun!
 
when the bcapl lo here did not have the money to send the qualifying team to nationals should there have a thread titled bcapl corruption ? I do not think so.

after that happened the league folded and no one has started one here since. no one affected has claimed bcapl corruption,they blamed the one person responsible. they became apa drunks, bangers, slop makers, sandbaggers , well you get the picture :rolleyes:

what I am getting at is the title to this thread is false. the apa is not corrupt, maybe the lo is but not the organization.

if I was the op I would not jump to conclusions. I would wait and see if his accusation that the player involved would be lowered back to a 6 next week came true or not. if he is lowered I would contact headquarters and inquire about it. sounds like sour grapes to me.

heck I was raised to a 5, lowered to a 4 and raised back to a 5 all in the same weekend during our 9 ball tri cups. it happens .
 
Keep in mind that the apa program is very quick to raise people. They adjust people's rating after each match. I have seen tournys where teams could not field a complete team in the next round because one or two people went up after the previous match.
On the other hand TAP with make adjustments after the tourny. But if TAP suspects someone is sandbagging they will disqualify that person.
I left the apa because the sandbagging in my area was so obvious my team could no longer compete. The lo would just raise people up.I felt he should have thrown them out.
 
We had 3 players raised after a playoff match 1 of whom didn't even play and after we won the next night they raised 2 more so we couldn't even field a team...

Between the 2nd match and the 3rd match the LO was gonna for 15 minutes before she came back with the new Handicaps... Told us they came out of the computer and she had gone home and entered the results.... Funny part was she lived 30+ minutes from the venue and the handicap changes were written in pen with the prior handicap marked thru...

I collected all of my teams APA Cards and told her in front of the other teams still in that she could stick them up her... Well you get the picture....

Luckily Knoxville is owned by a different LO these days but I don't think I'll play in it again unless maybe Masters but they are starting to require masters players to be on a regular teams to be able to play so my APA days are long gone.....

I keep looking at the USAPL and wondering if I could make it go here in town... May have to talk to Mark in Tunica =)
 
Rio19 said:
Hello AZer's

I have been hearing horror stories about corruption in the APA for my year or so in. Today I a first hand look at what everyone in my league means. I live in area where the pool scene is pretty average at best so my league has 9 teams. Because the pool scene is small the APA is owned by a woman that lives in a different city 45 mins away.

Even though we are in the same league the only time we see the teams from the her city is when we have tri-cup or LTC's.

Today my team and I went to LTC's. Played the first match and won 55-45 (9ball) . After that match we had a 30min break and started the second match against one of her teams(as she calls the Lynchburg teams). At the start of the second match they put up a 6 so we do the same and she comes over and tells my teammate he has been moved to a SL7.

Now I am not the smartest person in the world but I am pretty sure that was wrong but because she is the LO there is nothing we can do about it but smile and take it up the rear raw. We lost that match because we couldnt make numbers and the messed up part is that next week the guy she screwed will be a 6 again.

It seems this is not the first time she has pulled this stunt on the Danville teams but what can we do about it. Anyone else here have any APA Corruption stories i would love hear about them.
Click to expand...


I just got back from our LTC's. All i gotta say is you can't possibly think this just happened to your team.
(believe me) I got war-stories from this yrs LTC's . :mad::(
 
Rio19 said:
Hello AZer's

I have been hearing horror stories about corruption in the APA for my year or so in. Today I a first hand look at what everyone in my league means. I live in area where the pool scene is pretty average at best so my league has 9 teams. Because the pool scene is small the APA is owned by a woman that lives in a different city 45 mins away.

Even though we are in the same league the only time we see the teams from the her city is when we have tri-cup or LTC's.

Today my team and I went to LTC's. Played the first match and won 55-45 (9ball) . After that match we had a 30min break and started the second match against one of her teams(as she calls the Lynchburg teams). At the start of the second match they put up a 6 so we do the same and she comes over and tells my teammate he has been moved to a SL7.

Now I am not the smartest person in the world but I am pretty sure that was wrong but because she is the LO there is nothing we can do about it but smile and take it up the rear raw. We lost that match because we couldnt make numbers and the messed up part is that next week the guy she screwed will be a 6 again.

It seems this is not the first time she has pulled this stunt on the Danville teams but what can we do about it. Anyone else here have any APA Corruption stories i would love hear about them.
Click to expand...

Take it up with the APA upper management.You might want to clean up the language a bit,the person you talk to could be offended by your colloquialisms.
 
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Rio19 said:
It seems this is not the first time she has pulled this stunt on the Danville teams but what can we do about it.
Click to expand...

With a nanchalent look on your face, slowly unscrew your pool cue and bash her in the head with all your might, just before walking out.
 
MitchAlsup said:
With a nanchalent look on your face, slowly unscrew your pool cue and bash her in the head with all your might, just before walking out.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...
tempting, but illegal. I think a call to the st. Louis Office may result in you being told that the LO is well withing their authority to spontaneously raise a skill level during a tournament. The question I would have is if the paper work has already printed for the round in session, that means that the previous stats have been entered and the skill levels are current, and more to the point the numbers reflect that. Even that being said you'll probably find that the LO is still within their authority.
Our problem as players is that we have very little recourse when screwed. Here, I may not always agree with what happens skill level-wise (or other wise, but that's a different story), but I have come to trust our LO and I feel that our LO and the staff are some of the most fair minded people that I know. From what I read though, I also feel that our area here is really pretty unique, but getting back to the recourse thing,
Really, what can we do? so we quit and go play BCA or USPL (uspl?) or VNEA or TAP, or whatever, what does the APA care? 50 or 100 people can leave the APA or an area can shut down, no big deal, the money gets replaced and new members join every session, and really, who will actually sue or peruse action in court or legally? Something would have to happen on the National level and that has ZERO percent chance of happening. Hell, the last National 9 Champions cheated and we all couldn't even get together on that and I can't recall reading any pro support to lean on the APA to make some sort of announcement or do a press release or anything, so it died a slow death and the APA just makes it go away.
Geeze, sorry to rant, in the end I guess we have this:
If you don't like it, then quit
If you want to hang with friends and play pool and this what they do, then shut up and deal with it
Besides that, it's just pool, and just the APA for that matter, it's not even real pool, you don't need the headache, you know?
 
her team

baller4lifeii said:
Wow that is messed up. Surely there must be a way to report these things. Perhaps they should make it so that LO's cannot make their own teams in leagues that they operate. This would help avoid conflicting self-interests.
Click to expand...

I believe you misunderstood what the OP meant when he said her teams. She isn't on one of the teams, she just calls the teams from Lynchburg her teams because she happens to live in the area. LO's can play on a team throughout a session to help build teams but can't participate in the playoffs or any higher level tournament nor do they wish to. If your player was just moved up for no reason then I am with you all the way but he may have very well moved up on his own.
. Everyone loves to jump to conclusions and of course everyone is an expert on pool and how things should be run.

Always someone ready to offer you an alternative because their system is so much better.

I have seen players lose a match after shooting at the eight ball at least once or twice in every game and then complain about their opponent who finally beat them after they had blown numerous chances. Misery loves company and all of us, myself included, love to blame everyone else but the real person that screwed it up,

Wish you well and have a wonderful day
 
Rio19 said:
Hello AZer's

I have been hearing horror stories about corruption in the APA for my year or so in. Today I a first hand look at what everyone in my league means. I live in area where the pool scene is pretty average at best so my league has 9 teams. Because the pool scene is small the APA is owned by a woman that lives in a different city 45 mins away.

Even though we are in the same league the only time we see the teams from the her city is when we have tri-cup or LTC's.

Today my team and I went to LTC's. Played the first match and won 55-45 (9ball) . After that match we had a 30min break and started the second match against one of her teams(as she calls the Lynchburg teams). At the start of the second match they put up a 6 so we do the same and she comes over and tells my teammate he has been moved to a SL7.

Now I am not the smartest person in the world but I am pretty sure that was wrong but because she is the LO there is nothing we can do about it but smile and take it up the rear raw. We lost that match because we couldnt make numbers and the messed up part is that next week the guy she screwed will be a 6 again.

It seems this is not the first time she has pulled this stunt on the Danville teams but what can we do about it. Anyone else here have any APA Corruption stories i would love hear about them.
Click to expand...

Every year I get accused of "screwing" someone out of LTC's. A player goes up and it's my fault, I must have something against their team or the division they play in. Most of the time I did nothing but enter a match. Sometimes the team doesn't notice a player went up until it's too late. I get blamed for that, too. Maybe that happened here. Maybe not. Was the guy a 7 on the second round score sheet?

I bet next week the guy will be a 6 again, too. Especially since there's no way the matches played this weekend make it into the system used to print next week's paperwork.

Maybe the LO is just screwing with your team, because she likes the Lynchburg teams more than the Danville teams. But I doubt it. Most likely the guy just went up, was a 7 on the second round score sheet, your team didn't notice and put him up thinking he was still a 6, you couldn't make 23 because the player you needed was either absent or ineligible, and now you're looking for someone to blame.
 
No sir that is not how it happened. We had the paper work which stated my guy was a 6. It was not until after we put him up that she walked over and told him he was shooting as a 7. No print out from the computer she took a pen and wrote in he was SL7.
 
APA Operator said:
Every year I get accused of "screwing" someone out of LTC's. A player goes up and it's my fault, I must have something against their team or the division they play in. Most of the time I did nothing but enter a match. Sometimes the team doesn't notice a player went up until it's too late. I get blamed for that, too. Maybe that happened here. Maybe not. Was the guy a 7 on the second round score sheet?

I bet next week the guy will be a 6 again, too. Especially since there's no way the matches played this weekend make it into the system used to print next week's paperwork.

Maybe the LO is just screwing with your team, because she likes the Lynchburg teams more than the Danville teams. But I doubt it. Most likely the guy just went up, was a 7 on the second round score sheet, your team didn't notice and put him up thinking he was still a 6, you couldn't make 23 because the player you needed was either absent or ineligible, and now you're looking for someone to blame.
Click to expand...

As an APA LO have you ever waited till the match started, the paperwork was printed and then marked thru someones SL. That is how this was done. Also who would players complain to? We were told we had to pay 50 bucks to have home office review his SL which is pointless now the damage is done.
 
Rio19 said:
As an APA LO have you ever waited till the match started, the paperwork was printed and then marked thru someones SL. That is how this was done. Also who would players complain to? We were told we had to pay 50 bucks to have home office review his SL which is pointless now the damage is done.
Click to expand...

I have to say, this is the part of the APA that really galls me.

$50 to file a complaint.

I understand why they do it, put it still annoys the crap out of me.

And that is why the bad stuff keeps happening, when it happens. Who wants to spend $50 to attempt to get this stuff corrected?

Of course, there are always two sides to every story, but if it happened like described here, that is really too bad. Damned crappy.
 
Wow there is a lot to unpack here. And we should be careful. Hyperbole doesn't help anyone. Corruption is a strong word. The APA isn't the KGB. First I would get an explanation. I'm sure we would all like to hear what the LO has to say regarding the matter. Obviously don't threaten anyone, but I might mention the potential of notifying the national office. Inherent in handicapping is the ability to cheat the system. I mean, technically, its easy to do. But again I want to stress separating the league and the people in it.
You will find sandbagging in any and all handicapped leagues across all sports. If you don't feel justice is being done, go somewhere else. Your a 7. That gives you options. You can be comfortable anywhere. This lady LO, might just be a crackpot. As long as you work hard for the APA, they like you. She may fulfill her quotas but not care too much about the rules...Idk.
 
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APA BRIAN said:
Wow there is a lot to unpack here. And we should be careful. Hyperbole doesn't help anyone. Corruption is a strong word. The APA isn't the KGB. First I would get an explanation. I'm sure we would all like to hear what the LO has to say regarding the matter. Obviously don't threaten anyone, but I might mention the potential of notifying the national office.
Click to expand...

I use the word corruption because if the unique situation my teammates and I found ourselves in. Along with the stories of wrong doing during my time in the APA and those read here on AZ. I in no way think that the APA as a whole is corrupt. It is a money racket and a business that has flaws.
 
This thread is the reason I quit the APA. The last three tournaments i played in we had players handicaps raised. Once it was a 2 (has been a 2 for 3 years) she won a match against another 2, Three racks, one won by a scratch, games; 11,12, and 13 innings. Players rankings need to be frozen during any type of playoff, losing a bid to go to Vegas because of something like this is ridiculous. Manuel adjustment by league operators needs to stop. If the equalizer system is so good USE IT!!!!! Sandbaggers are all over and people know who they are. Do something about it, suspend or throw them out.
 
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