APA equipment really puts the "Amature" in APA

[Stroker]

I played the APA for one year and that was enough. Even tried the VNEA for a year and that was enough. I've played the BCAPL ever since and thay have the best playing equipment (diamond tables). They are the cadillac's in pool. Even played in the Q-lympics last year in Louisville, Ky. on the big table, 9ft diamond's. If 40% of the APA and VNEA would switch to the BCAPL we might even have the Q-lymics return.

 

[steev]

all this *****ing about cueballs is just that, *****ing.

i'm guessing you didn't do very well, KMRUNOUT. did your opponents use the same cueball as you?

-s

p.s. it's amateur, not amature.
p.p.s neither of the A's in APA stand for amateur.

 

[Gregg]

Same thing happened to us in Atlantic City, NJ for our local city qualifier.

People complained.

Our team, at any give match, has four or five Aramith red circle balls in our cue cases. I'm sure the opposing team had more than one as well.

 

[APA LO]

I guess I don't know the problem. The last year that the Valley tables were used in the BCA Nationals, we used the Green Aramith Logo ball, and they were great. Their only problem seemed to be that they were picking up chalk more readily than other balls.

We've done measurements and such with that ball, and they at the time were the best solution for bar table pool that use a magnetic return system.

At the bars that I play pool (the ones with the best equipment in the area), the Green Aramith Logo ball is what they use. Everyone loves them.

Fred

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that cue ball. You can make that one dance quite well on those tables, as I've played that combination (Valley tables and green Aramith cue ball) many times.

If anyone was not satisfied with the reasons for this combination, they weren't asking the right people. APA's vendor supplied more than 260 tables for this event, some for the main tournament room, some for the mini room and several practice rooms. It's just not realistic to supply over 260 red circle cue balls for every table, especially at the rate at which they get stolen when there is no way to monitor them. I honestly don't believe most people would enjoy paying a dollar to get the red circle out of the ball return on each scratch, either.

The cue ball used is magnetic so that it deposits in the cue ball return, rather than the side carriage. For consistency, it's the same throughout the entire event on every table. It's also a ball that people won't typically steal.

A little time in the practice room is really all that is needed to get adjusted to the combination of balls and tables that APA provided. APA uses this vendor for many of their events, as do many LO's all over North America.

To complain about a cue ball when you can easily draw it the full length of the table and some is just looking for something to complain about, if you ask me.

 

[FeltMaster]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that cue ball. You can make that one dance quite well on those tables, as I've played that combination (Valley tables and green Aramith cue ball) many times.

If anyone was not satisfied with the reasons for this combination, they weren't asking the right people. APA's vendor supplied more than 260 tables for this event, some for the main tournament room, some for the mini room and several practice rooms. It's just not realistic to supply over 260 red circle cue balls for every table, especially at the rate at which they get stolen when there is no way to monitor them. I honestly don't believe most people would enjoy paying a dollar to get the red circle out of the ball return on each scratch, either.

The cue ball used is magnetic so that it deposits in the cue ball return, rather than the side carriage. For consistency, it's the same throughout the entire event on every table. It's also a ball that people won't typically steal.

A little time in the practice room is really all that is needed to get adjusted to the combination of balls and tables that APA provided. APA uses this vendor for many of their events, as do many LO's all over North America.

To complain about a cue ball when you can easily draw it the full length of the table and some is just looking for something to complain about, if you ask me.

I must agree, I was there for the 9 Ball Team Event. I am used to playing mainly on 7 and 9 foot Diamonds 860 Cloth with TV balls and a Pro Cup Cue Ball...call me spoiled.
It took about an hour of practice in Vegas to figure out my playing adjustments...yes it was slow cloth, yes there were roll offs, yes the rails were stiff and unresponsive to English at times.......but I was happy with my performance, but there were many that were not.
Free trip to Vegas.....
I am sure your LO would offer a buyout instead of the trip for those interested.
Dom

 

[mongoose-]

Finally an APA LO Speaks

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that cue ball. You can make that one dance quite well on those tables, as I've played that combination (Valley tables and green Aramith cue ball) many times.

If anyone was not satisfied with the reasons for this combination, they weren't asking the right people. APA's vendor supplied more than 260 tables for this event, some for the main tournament room, some for the mini room and several practice rooms. It's just not realistic to supply over 260 red circle cue balls for every table, especially at the rate at which they get stolen when there is no way to monitor them. I honestly don't believe most people would enjoy paying a dollar to get the red circle out of the ball return on each scratch, either.

The cue ball used is magnetic so that it deposits in the cue ball return, rather than the side carriage. For consistency, it's the same throughout the entire event on every table. It's also a ball that people won't typically steal.

A little time in the practice room is really all that is needed to get adjusted to the combination of balls and tables that APA provided. APA uses this vendor for many of their events, as do many LO's all over North America.

To complain about a cue ball when you can easily draw it the full length of the table and some is just looking for something to complain about, if you ask me.

I will have to agree that the cue ball on a barbox shouldn't be making no big difference as when I was out there a few years ago I thought the playing conditions were just fine. But to each his own I guess.

My question is what DEFENSE an APA LO would have for known PRO players to be participating in these events. Pocket lining maybe ?

It's all about the $$$$$$$

 

[Koop]

Their only problem seemed to be that they were picking up chalk more readily than other balls.

Fred

This is actually the only complaint I would have. It seemed all the balls collected chalk very easily but I didn't have any problem with the cueball/table combination.

 

[deerhunter]

cue ball not the problem

The cue ball is not the problem, it is the object balls. The green S cue ball measures and weighs the same as the super aramith pro balls. The problems come in on valley bar tables when vendors use cheap object balls. The cheap balls vary in size and weight, most of them are small and weigh less. Therefore the cue ball plays heavy. But, the green S cue ball, I checked 12 of them, is exactly 2.25" and the weight is 169 grams, 6 oz. The exact weight and measure of the super aramith pro balls.

 

[Ant812]

im not taking any sides here but part of pool is about making adjustments to conditions. although i would rather play with a red circle ball, i dont have a problem with the green logo balls. i dont think they play bad at all. i really hate using regular bar balls, but i make do....mainly by trying not to leave myself any draw shots.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I guess what I am hearing from the people in the "adjust to the conditions" came that they can make do with the green logo ball. I can too. That wasn't really the point. As far as how I did...I was undefeated in the team matches. I am a 7 and beat a 6 and a damn good 3. For the Masters, I could have done better. I had one very good match and 2 so-so matches.

Where I am coming from is that I just don't like the concept of "making do" when there is a better option. My example is Alan Hopkins Valley Forge tournament. He is able to run a bustling practice area for a flat $10 charge. All the tables are open for matches. This scenario allows the use of any cue ball you want, even in a pay table. I don't know what sort of theft issues he faces. however, I am pretty sure that the red circle ball is a fair amount cheaper than the green logo ball. The central point to my post is if this is an option...why not do it?

As for the ball itself...it plays differently. I don't think anyone is arguing about that. Yes, I was able to draw up and down the table. That wasn't the issue. Even if the ball is exactly the same size and weight, the composition of the ball and the distribution of the weight, as well as the surface of the ball all majorly impact the way it plays. Take 50 players ranked 7. Have them play 50 matches with a green logo ball and 50 with the red circle ball. Which one do you think will average lower innings? (Particularly in 9 ball?)

I think the most reasonable reply so far (as far as addressing the topic of the post) was the person who suggested that there might be an issue with Valley promoting a product that doesn't "go with" their table.

I really appreciate the different perspectives out there. However, let me streamline the topic here to this: If they can use a better ball (they can-we all know that) then why not do it? The answer to the question reveals the mindset of the APA.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

One other thing: I think all the topics of humidity, cloth, etc, are all different than the cue ball change. The analogy was made to football playing on different turf, etc. The ball, however, is pretty strictly regulated.

Just wanted to add that in there.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

One other thing: I think all the topics of humidity, cloth, etc, are all different than the cue ball change. The analogy was made to football playing on different turf, etc. The ball, however, is pretty strictly regulated.

Just wanted to add that in there.

KMRUNOUT

I think you've missed out on one clear concept of the APA. It's a league for players, not pro players like you. If you need to be coddled and spoiled every time you play, then get out of the $8 leagues. Go play semi-pro and pro events. If you're going to whine about the equipment, then go enter a $50 or $100 tourney, and play on Diamonds with Super Aramith balls.

If you walked around the room you play APA league out of, I dare you to ask 20 people the difference between a Super Aramith Red dot cueball and a green dot cueball. You may find 4 that know the answer, and I'm willing to bet the only ones that do are on your team, or part of your "whine" list you complain to after you get beat by another APA sandbagger.

Oh, yeah. The NFL does have rules regarding the ball. They do not, however, have a rule in regards to air temperature the game is played at. Tom Brady doesn't get to ask them to bump the outside temperature up 20 degrees because it was 68 on Tuesday when he was practicing long balls to Moss. Pool seems to be the only game where upper echelon players come to expect perfect conditions. Your opponent plays the same ball and same table. If you lost, you lost. Don't blame the equipment. If you're going to blame the cueball, then also blame your tip and cue. They caused you to lose, too.

 

["T"]

You know, you could have asked us here about the cueball before you went?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=95596

-

 

[chris_williams]

I think you've missed out on one clear concept of the APA. It's a league for players, not pro players like you. If you need to be coddled and spoiled every time you play, then get out of the $8 leagues. Go play semi-pro and pro events. If you're going to whine about the equipment, then go enter a $50 or $100 tourney, and play on Diamonds with Super Aramith balls.

If you walked around the room you play APA league out of, I dare you to ask 20 people the difference between a Super Aramith Red dot cueball and a green dot cueball. You may find 4 that know the answer, and I'm willing to bet the only ones that do are on your team, or part of your "whine" list you complain to after you get beat by another APA sandbagger.

Oh, yeah. The NFL does have rules regarding the ball. They do not, however, have a rule in regards to air temperature the game is played at. Tom Brady doesn't get to ask them to bump the outside temperature up 20 degrees because it was 68 on Tuesday when he was practicing long balls to Moss. Pool seems to be the only game where upper echelon players come to expect perfect conditions. Your opponent plays the same ball and same table. If you lost, you lost. Don't blame the equipment. If you're going to blame the cueball, then also blame your tip and cue. They caused you to lose, too.

I dont know KMRUNOUT so I am not sticking up for him. I think he was entitled to not like the conditions he was playing in. I dont think he ever said it caused him to lose or wined about anything. I think he was stating his opinion. So to come on here and call him a winer and say he was blaming that on his loss is a little harsh

 

[mongoose-]

Agreed

I dont know KMRUNOUT so I am not sticking up for him. I think he was entitled to not like the conditions he was playing in. I dont think he ever said it caused him to lose or wined about anything. I think he was stating his opinion. So to come on here and call him a winer and say he was blaming that on his loss is a little harsh

I agree that was a bit harsh.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I dont know KMRUNOUT so I am not sticking up for him. I think he was entitled to not like the conditions he was playing in. I dont think he ever said it caused him to lose or wined about anything. I think he was stating his opinion. So to come on here and call him a winer and say he was blaming that on his loss is a little harsh

"APA equipment really puts the Amateur in APA" was his title for this thread. APA stands for American Poolplayers Association, so there is no "Amateur" in APA. Everyone else had to play on the same equipment. To post a rant about the national event not having the EXACT cueball you are used to is a little immature. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If 75% of the field complained about the cueball, I'd listen. However, he's just getting pissy about the color of the dot on the Aramith ball. That, in my parts, is called whining.

 

[ragoo1]

The heavy cue is only one issue. I looked at several of the tables and the rails were dead on them. I was there the first Thursday for the 9-ball tourny and cannot believe the rails were already dead. I was also there in April/May for the singles championship and noticed the same thing. I believe they are storing the tables and reusing them each tournament. I am not completely sold on the idea that all of the tables had new cloth. Also, most of the people that I talked to played on 9 foot tables....

 

[cbi1000]

"APA equipment really puts the Amateur in APA" was his title for this thread. APA stands for American Poolplayers Association, so there is no "Amateur" in APA. Everyone else had to play on the same equipment. To post a rant about the national event not having the EXACT cueball you are used to is a little immature. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If 75% of the field complained about the cueball, I'd listen. However, he's just getting pissy about the color of the dot on the Aramith ball. That, in my parts, is called whining.

dude, talk about missing the point. Trust me, ask any player from my area about who went to LV and they all say the playing conditions suck. 2's and 3's were complaining about the cue.

Also, for those of you who like to say it's a free trip to LV need to do the math. My bet is most APA players come out on the losing side of the out of pocket expense compaired to other leagues.

Take BCA. I pay $5 per week. Most sessions are 12 to 15 weeks long. Out going cash = $60-$75.
I'm a good "b" player and i usuall get back $50-$60. And most weeker players bring in at least $25. So in the end most players are paying less then $40 per sesson play. Lets say they play 5 sessions a year then their out $200.

APA - Most people play double trouble (LOL) that's 14 per week. 12 to 15 weeks = $168 to $210 per session, 5 session = $840 - $1050. Per year.
I forgot about APA payout. My last team took first during the regular season and we got paid $20 per person. Then week took first in tri-cups and that paid - $120 per person. And we had to pay for every game along the way, so take off $40.

so we are left 840 to 1050 - 100 = 740 to 950.

So bca is 200 per year for lower player or 740 to 950 for APA.

I can stay in a way better place then the big R in LV for five days for less then 500.

And keep in mind, most APA players play more then once a week. Their costs could be much higher.

APA players, joint a BCA league, save your cash, use that cash to attend BCA in LV. Have TONS more fun and play on better equipment.

:smile:

 

[mongoose-]

Great example & well said!

dude, talk about missing the point. Trust me, ask any player from my area about who went to LV and they all say the playing conditions suck. 2's and 3's were complaining about the cue.

Also, for those of you who like to say it's a free trip to LV need to do the math. My bet is most APA players come out on the losing side of the out of pocket expense compaired to other leagues.

Take BCA. I pay $5 per week. Most sessions are 12 to 15 weeks long. Out going cash = $60-$75.
I'm a good "b" player and i usuall get back $50-$60. And most weeker players bring in at least $25. So in the end most players are paying less then $40 per sesson play. Lets say they play 5 sessions a year then their out $200.

APA - Most people play double trouble (LOL) that's 14 per week. 12 to 15 weeks = $168 to $210 per session, 5 session = $840 - $1050. Per year.
I forgot about APA payout. My last team took first during the regular season and we got paid $20 per person. Then week took first in tri-cups and that paid - $120 per person. And we had to pay for every game along the way, so take off $40.

so we are left 840 to 1050 - 100 = 740 to 950.

So bca is 200 per year for lower player or 740 to 950 for APA.

I can stay in a way better place then the big R in LV for five days for less then 500.

And keep in mind, most APA players play more then once a week. Their costs could be much higher.

APA players, joint a BCA league, save your cash, use that cash to attend BCA in LV. Have TONS more fun and play on better equipment.

:smile:

That is 100% correct. Between my wife & we were paying over $1000 a year in dues. Granted that is not a lot for entertainment expense but still. I'm a strong player up here in my area and usually do well in what I compete in so myself can go play other things. My wife & our friends however are not avid players so that system was perfect for them & I will add I enjoy the TEAM play myself & enjoyed seeing them progress.

The set up here goes like this as the LO runs the entire state of 250+ teams. I will also add he does play pool and has brought a lot of players into the sport here with his promotions. Nice job but in my OPINION is a crook but thats another story. So these teams play 15 week sessions... those that qualify will drive down to the southern part of the state which is 4 hours away to play in the state playoffs. Now ya got a hotel & other expenses not to mention if you won the session you might get back $150 a man. Then the teams that win get that "all expense paid trip" to vegas. Flying out of BOSTON. Which is a 7+ hour drive. Gas isn't cheap these days ya know. Then they are off to Vegas where they get a couple rooms to share betwen the team. WELL if i am going to Vegas and taking the little lady I sure as f*** ain't rooming with a pool team if anyone gets my point. I've been trying to beat this in their heads for 3 years now but it is like that "lure of the all expense trip" to the city of sin has got their brains scrambled.

 

[chris_williams]

"APA equipment really puts the Amateur in APA" was his title for this thread. APA stands for American Poolplayers Association, so there is no "Amateur" in APA. Everyone else had to play on the same equipment. To post a rant about the national event not having the EXACT cueball you are used to is a little immature. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If 75% of the field complained about the cueball, I'd listen. However, he's just getting pissy about the color of the dot on the Aramith ball. That, in my parts, is called whining.

Last time I checked the APA was an amateur league. As is the ACS, BCA, TAP, and VNEA