APA foul?

DeeDeeCues said:
Nope. Joined a team, talked to the lo. End of season comes and he said that I joined too late. Team was given the option to forfeit their place in the upcoming tourney, or take me off the roster and forfeit my wins.

So while he didn't explicitly kick me out, that was the effect he knew it would have.
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Their rules regarding this are pretty cut and dry, there is definitely more to the backstory.

What did the LO say when you joined?

How many weeks were left in the season?

How many matches did you play?

Were you brought on as a shark?
 
Players are supposed to start by the 4th week of the session. After that, it is at the LO'S discretion. And then there is the "original players" clause that still allows a team to continue to higher levels.
 
I don't remember how many weeks were left. This was years ago.

LO said it was good. I was brought on as a five. I should probably have been a six, maybe.

The LO and I had met before I started the league. I was just getting back into pool, didn't know a thing about APA. The LO had brought a female hustler to a bar and we played for a few hours. He knew my speed.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
I don't remember how many weeks were left. This was years ago.

LO said it was good. I was brought on as a five. I should probably have been a six, maybe.

The LO and I had met before I started the league. I was just getting back into pool, didn't know a thing about APA. The LO had brought a female hustler to a bar and we played for a few hours. He knew my speed.
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How many weeks did you play? There is a minimum number per session to be qualified to play higher level tournaments.
 
BTW, I never had any altercations in apa. There people in the league were great, mostly. I only joined the league after being asked by five teams the first night I stumbled into their league night. I played because they had few decent players and I thought i could teach them some things.

This was after a several year hiatus from pool.
 
buckshotshoey said:
How many weeks did you play? There is a minimum number per session to be qualified to play higher level tournaments.
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Look, I told you we cleared everything with the LO. He never said anything wasn't going to work out, then he made my team remove me from the roster and retroactively forfeit all my matches. I played every week to make sure I had enough matches.

If you don't believe me, I don't care.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Look, I told you we cleared everything with the LO. He never said anything wasn't going to work out, then he made my team remove me from the roster and retroactively forfeit all my matches. I played every week to make sure I had enough matches.

If you don't believe me, I don't care.
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I'm just asking dude. If you dont want to say, I could care less.
 
hang-the-9 said:
So the thing with cueball fouls only, that is only during a legal shot otherwise. You can't just whack balls all over the place as long as it's not the cueball, that is just silly in any situation outside of a couple of 6 year olds playing. The cueball fouls only is for accidental movement of balls other than the cueball during a shot. You strike the cueball and if you move other balls by accident, then it's not a foul (unless you move more than one or the moved ball interferes with the shot). A legal shot in pool requires striking the cueball, if you don't, it's a basic game foul. But again this hinges on the fact it's APA and they tend to toss reason and basic rules of the game out the window in more than one of their rules.
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APA is a league of over 200k players. 250k if you believe their promotional material. That's a lot of people. You can't just go expecting a large group of people to adhere to the spirit of the game or any other phrase you'd like to apply here. People can and will go to any lengths to use the rules to their advantage. APA keeps it is as simple as possible, to try and minimize potential rules arguments.

Cue ball fouls only makes it simpler. Is it right for every circumstance, probably not. But at least its laid out there for everyone to see.

If you don't like the way APA does it, don't play. Simple. There are lots of options out there. And to come into an APA thread and complain about they way they do things, when you don't play APA, seems like you're just looking for an argument. Of course, it is a forum, so there is that...
 
DryFlyTrout said:
A friend was explaining something that happened Saturday at an APA tournament.
Instead of shooting the cue ball, a player shot the 8 ball. The 8 ball hit another ball but the cue ball never moved. I was told there were several LOs in attendance. The LO that was called over said it wasn't a foul, reset the balls, and allowed the player to shot again. They missed the 8 ball. My friend said he talked to the local LO afterword and he said he would have called it a foul.

Based on my understanding, APA is cue ball fouls only. If player A bumps a ball(s) player B can reset them as best as possible or leave them. Doesn't matter if it's their hand, shaft, tip...

FWIW, shooting an object ball is a foul in my opinion. I don't make APA rules though.
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Close.

If a player moves a ball, the opponent is *requires* to replace the ball to where they thought it was.

The only way this would result in a foul is if the cueball came in contact with a moved ball.

The LO at the scene made the right call, assuming it was the opponent that dictates where to where the balls were replaced.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
Bob Jewett said:
In some rule sets this is an absolutely forbidden shot. Depending on the ref/TD the player might be disqualified from the event.

You are not allowed to intentionally hit the object balls directly with your cue stick. It is not part of the game. It is not pool.

You did not make it clear whether the player did this intentionally. If it was intentional, he should have at least lost the game.
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The only rule set pertinent to this discussion is APA rules. It is not a foul. The balls *must* be replaced to their original locations.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
Chili Palmer said:
Believe me, intent has a lot to do with it. I have not played APA for about a year but I had this conversation with our LO a few times. Read the rules, I believe they say "if an object ball is 'accidentally' moved", key word - accidentally - if it is intentional it is a foul.
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The rules contain zero words about intentionally moved balls. There is no rule saying any ball moved is a foul. Thus, intent is irrelevant. You’re making assumptions here based on nothing in the APA rule book.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
justadub said:
APA is a league of over 200k players. 250k if you believe their promotional material. That's a lot of people. You can't just go expecting a large group of people to adhere to the spirit of the game or any other phrase you'd like to apply here. People can and will go to any lengths to use the rules to their advantage. APA keeps it is as simple as possible, to try and minimize potential rules arguments.

Cue ball fouls only makes it simpler. Is it right for every circumstance, probably not. But at least its laid out there for everyone to see.

If you don't like the way APA does it, don't play. Simple. There are lots of options out there. And to come into an APA thread and complain about they way they do things, when you don't play APA, seems like you're just looking for an argument. Of course, it is a forum, so there is that...
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They're allowed to post what they want here. Insults and all. Don't like what they post? Ignore it. When they can debate the rules without insults, maybe I'll respond. Until then, they are just not worth engaging to me.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how many people talk about what “should” be the rule, what the rule is in some other league or rule set, or other completely irrelevant things. The question was regarding APA rules. The rules do not call this a foul. APA Operator explained everything. Cant imagine how the conversation progresses beyond that.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
KMRUNOUT said:
The rules contain zero words about intentionally moved balls. There is no rule saying any ball moved is a foul. Thus, intent is irrelevant. You’re making assumptions here based on nothing in the APA rule book.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
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True, the rules make no mention of intentionally moved balls. But they do mention creating one's own interpretation of the rules. On page 5 it specifically says that teams doing that are subject to sportsmanship violations. Someone who intentionally moves a ball because it's not a foul is subject to a sportsmanship penalty in my book. They're trying to play outside the spirit of the rules, to get an advantage. In that respect intent is very relevant.
 
DryFlyTrout said:
A friend was explaining something that happened Saturday at an APA tournament.
Instead of shooting the cue ball, a player shot the 8 ball. The 8 ball hit another ball but the cue ball never moved. I was told there were several LOs in attendance. The LO that was called over said it wasn't a foul, reset the balls, and allowed the player to shot again. They missed the 8 ball. My friend said he talked to the local LO afterword and he said he would have called it a foul.

Based on my understanding, APA is cue ball fouls only. If player A bumps a ball(s) player B can reset them as best as possible or leave them. Doesn't matter if it's their hand, shaft, tip...

FWIW, shooting an object ball is a foul in my opinion. I don't make APA rules though.
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It would have been fun to watch the smile drop off his face and hit the floor, but then im projecting: my color blindness has led me to blast the 8 ball in for the win, only to realize the cue ball is over there laughing at me. In the light of certain pubs ive mistaken the one ball for the cue! Not often of course, but enough times to confirm my "Genius." 😃
 
John the Barber Naples said:
It would have been fun to watch the smile drop off his face and hit the floor, but then im projecting: my color blindness has led me to blast the 8 ball in for the win, only to realize the cue ball is over there laughing at me. In the light of certain pubs ive mistaken the one ball for the cue! Not often of course, but enough times to confirm my "Genius." 😃
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I hit the 9 ball for the cue once. The yellow was faded on some bar balls and it was turned perfectly so the white side was facing me. Shot and then saw the stripe spinning. Looked over and saw the cue ball. Picked it up, hung my head and hand it to him. Lesson learned.
 
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