APA game: Was this a foul?

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PaulAlex7000

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Last nite, a dispute arose between teams A and B on this one particular game.

Team A shooter marked his pocket and then banked the 8 ball into the side pocket. It was pretty obvious that the bank was good and the 8 ball was was destined for the side.

But just about as the 8 ball was going to fall into the side pocket, the shooter then removed the marker. You know, because the 8B was going to fall in and that was it -- end of game.

But Team B immediately contested this, saying it was loss of game because Team A shooter removed the marker before the 8B actually was sunk.

Was this technically a foul? No one could find anything on this particular scenario in the rule book. Everyone from all of the teams couldn't find anything. Even the barmaid got into the action, thumbing through the rule book.
 
IMO,

He marked it and shot it.

Anyone who'd argue that it matters that he picked it up, let them explain that it wouldn't matter.....because they'd let him change his called pocket after shooting the ball. :rolleyes:
 
Mr. Wilson said:
IMO,

He marked it and shot it.

Anyone who'd argue that it matters that he picked it up, let them explain that it wouldn't matter.....because they'd let him change his called pocket after shooting the ball. :rolleyes:
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Think Mr. Wilson has it correct. I see no foul.... ;)
 
another post which begs the question of why anybody would play in a league.
 
PaulAlex7000 said:
Last nite, a dispute arose between teams A and B on this one particular game.

Team A shooter marked his pocket and then banked the 8 ball into the side pocket. It was pretty obvious that the bank was good and the 8 ball was was destined for the side.

But just about as the 8 ball was going to fall into the side pocket, the shooter then removed the marker. You know, because the 8B was going to fall in and that was it -- end of game.

But Team B immediately contested this, saying it was loss of game because Team A shooter removed the marker before the 8B actually was sunk.

Was this technically a foul? No one could find anything on this particular scenario in the rule book. Everyone from all of the teams couldn't find anything. Even the barmaid got into the action, thumbing through the rule book.
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That's a tough one to answer. I think even the league operator would have a tough time answering it. Does the rule say that the shooter must mark the pocket before the shot, or that the pocket must be marked when the 8-ball goes in?

IMO, I don't think it was a loss. The shooter marked the pocket, everyone knew he was shotting it there and it went in. End of story. Team B should be ashamed for being such whiners and Team A shooter should be slapped by his teammates for pulling such a stupid stunt. One very important rule I've learned since I started... never touch anything until the balls stop rolling.
 
First, I'm an exalted APA 9, mind you, so my opinion carries a lot of weight here. That wasn't a foul. It might have been a foul if Player A bashed Player B upside the head with their break cue for attempting such a chicken-shit move but, other than that, no foul.

I love league pool.
 
JPB said:
another post which begs the question of why anybody would play in a league.
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Not all leagues are bad. As a matter of fact we happen to have one of the greatest BCA Leagues I have ever seen!....randyg
 
randyg said:
Not all leagues are bad. As a matter of fact we happen to have one of the greatest BCA Leagues I have ever seen!....randyg
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I know some are worse than others. ;)

I am sure your league is nice. I would like to see it in action. I probably wouldn't play if I lived in your area though. Committee meetings, rules disputes, appellate briefing, etc... all to play bar table 8 ball. What a joy.
 
Though, I think it was a bit cocky of the shooter to pick up his marker I think it is more obnoxious and petty of the team to try and call it a loss. This illustrates why the rule is there in the first place, to avoid arguments over which pocket was called. Since all agree this was the intended pocket then they are just arguing semantics and again seeking a petty victory. Ahh yes, leagues are so much fun!

I am curious to know what the outcome was?
 
11. How to Win- Aplayer has won the game when all the balls of his numerical group have been pocketed and he has legally pocketed the 8-ball in a properly marked pocket without scratching. To properly mark the pocket, a coaster or some other reasonable object, not chalk, must be placed next to the pocket the 8-ball is intended to enter. Both teams may use the same marker. Only one marker should be on the table. If the marker is already at the intended pocket from a previous attempt or game, it is not necessary for the shooter to touch it, pick it up or reposition it. Note: You cannot play the 8-ball while simultaneously playing the last ball of your category. The 8-ball must be a separate shot.
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He did not make the bal in a properly marked pocket however I cannot believe that the spirit and intent of the rule was to be that once the CB has been struck the marked pocket STAYS the marked pocket NO MATTER WHAT!

I know the APA does not use umpires but I have umpired/refereed for years and have a little experience at deciding the interpretation of rules that don't take into account issues which only a sore loser would argue.

IMHO no harm, no foul.

LWW
 
jjinfla said:
You got to be kidding me.

That's what you get for playing with liberals.

Jake
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LOL! Are you serious? I don't really see the connection between politics and league arguments. :)
 
The shooter was stupid for doing it and the complainers were childish.

One of our guys uses a used tissue (yuk!) to mark his pocket. One time, the tissue blew off the table just before he pulled the trigger on the 8 ball. The 8 ball went in with the tissue laying on the floor. Nobody said a word about it. It was VNEA league.

League is fun, unless people make it otherwise. Even then, it can be fun. Just look at the fun we're having now! :)

Jeff Livingston
 
My league experience is varied... most all good but some bad... and I can tell you from 10 years of league officer experience that the pettiness that is so hard to deal with in some leagues comes predominantly from the lesser-skilled players. Why?... I don't know... but it definitely does!

Leagues with more experieced players have less quibbles, quarrels and arguments.


And here's one to remember...

"Rules are made for the obedience of fools... and guidance for the wise."
 
Taking it to serious...

Sometimes I think people forget that they are not Pro's?...that you are not losing money on League night...(save your $8 or whatever), I play an In-House League in a neighborhood room, 9 Teams on our roster, so you get to know people and Teams pretty well. Now there are some Teams that are rule junkies, (don't get them?)...and there are others that are more layed back...I find the stronger Teams to be the latter...once your I'd say...a SL5 or higher...reasonable people know you pocket balls where you intend them to go...if you get a lucky roll, you throw up your hand in acknowledgement, 'hey sorry about that', and get on with it...it is APA after all, (slop counts)...as far as the 8-Ball is concerned...if you shoot it and it does not go where you intended, (pocket marked/called or not), your unsportsmanlike at a minimum, and/or everything that's wrong with League play...
 
JPB said:
I know some are worse than others. ;)

I am sure your league is nice. I would like to see it in action. I probably wouldn't play if I lived in your area though. Committee meetings, rules disputes, appellate briefing, etc... all to play bar table 8 ball. What a joy.
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No committee meetings, no rule disputes, no bar table 8-ball.
 
Give me a break! What a bunch of whiners! And "Team A" person should learn to not egg on a bunch of whiners with pulling a nit move like that.

Barbara
 
The ruling should be an unsportsmanlike behavior penalty against the team who argued that it is a foul.

They knew he had marked his pocket.
They all knew he had no intent of unmarking his pocket.
They knew of no rule that suggested moving a marker early meant that a pocket had become unmarked.

They were simply trying to cheat a win on a technicality...at any cost of rudeness.

Burn them at the stake I say!
 
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