APA....How does it work?

jokrswylde...While technically you're correct, the LO would have to be able to establish a reason, and demonstrate (through math, or "known player ability") why a player should be lowered or raised. They cannot just arbitrarily assign skill levels. If this has happened in your area several times, as you said, you have a right to get a clear answer from the LO or you can go to APA National and register a complaint.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Math that can be overridden by the LO, supposedly it has happened several times in our league.
 
Math that can be overridden by the LO, supposedly it has happened several times in our league.

Key word: supposedly.

We all hear tales of an LO doing manipulative things. We could continue with unsubstantiated rumor milling, or we could help support the biggest amateur pool playing league out there.

Freddie <~~~ never seen it
 
No Fargo rating. I am not sure where I would be playing as I am not sure which state we are moving back to. I do know I am only interested in playing on 9 ft tables. I have no interest in bar tables.

Thanks everyone for your input. I sure am going to miss playing here. In 6 years I have never paid for table time.

If no bar tables, it will be very tough to find a league that is not an in-house one that is only 9 footers. I have been playing for 30 years and of those, first 20+ years I played on a 7 footer maybe 4 times total. Then my son started playing and we got into a few leagues, most of the time they are on 7 footers. They may also be non-travel leagues. For example, in my USAPL local league we have a Masters 10 Ball division, it is played out of one place, on 9 footers, but counts towards league standings and a chance to win a Vegas trip with the league.
 
As mentioned. If you like 9's APA is out as they generally play on 7' various brands of tables in bars. Generally the standard are Valleys with buckets.

I believe the APA is good for some folks similar to bowling leagues and night out with friends. Built on a 'Pyramid' type business plan with the '23' rule so teams are not stacked and it does not scare off entry level players.

Better you or teammates get ( higher handicap) the more teams are formed more $ for LO. Magic # seems to be 5's that plays a 7+ speed for that free trip to Vegas which seems all that matters in the APA World.

Have a good day,

-Kat,
 
As mentioned. If you like 9's APA is out as they generally play on 7' various brands of tables in bars. Generally the standard are Valleys with buckets.

I believe the APA is good for some folks similar to bowling leagues and night out with friends. Built on a 'Pyramid' type business plan with the '23' rule so teams are not stacked and it does not scare off entry level players.

Better you or teammates get ( higher handicap) the more teams are formed more $ for LO. Magic # seems to be 5's that plays a 7+ speed for that free trip to Vegas which seems all that matters in the APA World.

Have a good day,

-Kat,


Yep, and heaven help the player that plays at their real handicap. I have become thoroughly disillusioned after going to my first national league event and finding out that I get to spot players 5-3 that can run out as easily as I can. One person runs out the rack, next one I play with same handicap can barely make 3 balls in a row. My teams 350 Fargo rated player can run 3 balls on average, another team had a 370 that runs out double that, and with good position play. Honest players and team have an uphill battle in any handicapped event.
 
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CPA and OPPL leagues are played on 9ft tables at least here in Ontario,but when you go to the Canadians yearly weekend tournament it's bar boxes.
 
Math that can be overridden by the LO, supposedly it has happened several times in our league.

Was it to drop a player down to to raise them? I have seen players raised before manually when their known ability did not match their handicap (not APA league though). I have never seen anyone being lowered manually. When the USAPL started up in my area, it was 30-125 handicap. Since we were all new, we all played at a 50 handicap (which is about a C). Since I am a B+, I blew through players as a 50, and with shorter races had some good runs. 3 weeks later the real ratings went though and I was put in as a 125, the highest in the league, A or A+ level rating. I had to battle my way to a 90-100 rating slowly by losing for a while LOL, no-one adjusted my handicap even though it was clear it was too high for me.
 
No Fargo rating. I am not sure where I would be playing as I am not sure which state we are moving back to. I do know I am only interested in playing on 9 ft tables. I have no interest in bar tables. ...
Some pool rooms with 9-foot tables have in-house leagues or weekly tournaments. I think that's your best bet for your interests. There is a local APA league that is all/mostly on 9-foot tables, so that's another possibility, but as Scott said APA is mostly on bar boxes.

I prefer to spend most of my time in league playing. In many leagues it doesn't work out that way. I did play for several seasons in a league where I got to play two games of eight ball per league night. I was young and naive -- it was a long time ago;).
 
jokrswylde...While technically you're correct, the LO would have to be able to establish a reason, and demonstrate (through math, or "known player ability") why a player should be lowered or raised. They cannot just arbitrarily assign skill levels. If this has happened in your area several times, as you said, you have a right to get a clear answer from the LO or you can go to APA National and register a complaint.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

No complaints from me, man, I just have fun and play pool. I'd play SVB if the other captain throws him against me. :eek:

The two examples that have happened in my division, Player A was a SL5 for a few consecutive sessions with around a 60% winning percentage. He went through a period where he won a local house tourney (non APA) 4 out of 5 weeks, beating known sl 6's and 7's. the LO was in attendance at one of these and when the next session started, Person A was a SL 7, skipped right over SL 6. Maybe it was math, but doesn't seem like it. PLayer A has since excelled as a Sl7.

PLayer B was a brand new APA member, 19 years old. Wanted to start a team but told LO that he wanted to come in as a SL7, as he "putting himself through college" by gambling on pool games. Guy comes in as SL7. I asked our LO about it and he told me he has some wiggle room on the rankings. (this is what prompted my "whatever the LO thinks" comment) Player B promptly had a sub 50% winning percentage and his team folded after 1 session.

But again, I am very green about APA as this is only my 2nd full session. I will defer to those more experienced :thumbup:
 
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Virtually the entire state of Maine plays APA on 9' tables. There are a couple of exceptions, but I would guess at least 90%. I could be off a bit, I haven't visited all the rooms, but I have been told by many that I see at States that they play on 9's, like we do.
 
RE: APA... How does it work? - 9' TABLES

If this is a factor in where to move, I know the Clearwater, FL area has a number of rooms w/9' tables that host in house and travelling leagues, APA included. There is also another one in Chicago that does an in-house APA league on 9' tables. Can't speak to anywhere else, though.
 
I am not going to quote any post here, but this is what I've witnessed from my own eyes on two separate occasions concerning my LO and skill levels...one of them occurring a mere three weeks ago. I am only (for the sake of less typing) going to give you the one example.

The 8-ball team that our LO and his son play on sometimes has trouble getting four players to show up on league night. He had a roster of six players throughout the first nine weeks of the session. Although he didn't drop anyone from his roster, he magically added to new men players to his roster for week ten (which btw is not allowed by National APA rules). We were playing this team in week 12. I checked the rosters and player handicaps as I do before every weeks match and discover that these two men were rated as SL2's. One of them had played one match and lost, while the other had played two matches and won one of them. One of the new players didn't show up for our scheduled matches that week, but the one that had played two matches and had won one did and ran roughshod over one of our SL4's, displaying multiple ball runs and decent cue ball control, including the use of multiple rails for shape and a pretty sporty draw stroke.

My question is...how did this man ever drop from a beginning SL of 4 to a SL2 in two weeks while winning half of his previous two matches? Wouldn't you think at the very least, if he had a 50% win record that he could have never dropped down to a SL2? It would have taken a buttload of innings to have done that, and from what I saw, he wasn't the type of player that would need a lot of innings to make his eight balls (I must also add that he had a good idea of safety play without needing a time out to figure one out).

You can say what you want, but I would bet my house that these two men's handicaps were manipulated by the LO as an incentive for them joining the team so they were assured of having at least five players every week. I cannot see APA National office making either man a SL2 after just one week for one of them and two weeks (at 50% win ratio) for the other.

Couple that with some first-hand info that I got with my own ears several years ago from an opposing captain about two players that the LO promised to start as SL2's for his team to convince them to join makes this a very strong possibility that my LO has the power/ability to manipulate skill levels.

I am in no way bashing the APA. It is fun to get out with friends, have a drink or three, and shoot some pool as opposed to spending most of the evening/night in my reclining chair. My personal opinion is that an APA league can be as good an experience as the LO will allow it to be. If you don't like the handicap system and don't think it can be fairly done, then the APA does have a non-handicapped Master's league.

But not in a million years could you ever convince me that a LO cannot manipulate skill levels.

Maniac (sorry for the long-winded semi-rant)
 
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Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that our LO is still allowing players to play and score points even though they are WEEKS behind as far as owing money is concerned.

These things don't bother me too much as I don't give a $hit anymore, but I have teammates that do and as their captain am encouraged to say something to the LO about it...which I never do.

Maniac
 
No APA here. We have bar leagues. No fees. Beers are $1.50. All 9 ft tables. No handicaps. Dancing girls in shorts or bikinis.... but i am moving back to the real world next year and as much as i enjoy the funny answers above, i kinda would like a real answer some time in this thread within the next 500 responses here.

9 ft. tables, $1.50 beers and dancing girls in shorts or bikinis. You're leaving?
Are you completely insane? You're kidding, right?
 
Its just an extra night out playing..Watch and be amazed what people will sink to to get the mythical Vegas trip...Oh yeah,if you are a good 7 prepare to have 2s dumped on you when the chickens want to protect their session stats or “keep the 2 from moving up”.And when your 2 misses,you will sit because the points are over 23.
 
Another quality APA quote I just heard tonight (well last night since it's 16 min into Friday). "I don't want to go to a 5". Meaning "sure I can make a few more balls, but that means I need to play normally instead of just getting easy wins". I watched this same player last week coaching everyone he was around on how to play. Do many APA 4s go around explaining different ways of shooting balls on the rail, including how and when to use spin? F'n pathetic is what that is. In another pool hall I ran into a player who was about as good as me, a B+, he said he was a 5 in the APA, while shrugging and saying "well, you know... need to keep the handicap low".
 
Up-stater, here.

When i started playing pool again after a 20 year lapse, a few friends recruited me into NAPA. Ithaca (Tomkins County) has APA & NAPA and maybe some others. Some play in both leagues. NAPA is considered the "nicer" league here & may well be the more competitive (5 people cashed checks at Nationals last year, including 1st place 8 Ball, 2nd place laggers choice). In this area we play on both 7' bar boxes, and on 9' GC's depending who is hosting. Though in the past couple years, we're down to just one barbox venue, and 1 college team with GC's. APA often has a match going the same night at the BB place. Many in the league have 9' home tables, the buddy that got me involved has a 5 x 10.

NAPA rankings are computer generated from the HQ. I don't know about APA

Both leagues have multiple options for play throughout the week- teams, singles, scotch doubles, in NAPA.

I'm a banger level player, never get to practice & decided to not make the drive last season. But it's fun and over time does improve the game. Met a lot of very interesting people doing interesting things. Ask around and maybe go watch some league play. Pick one that looks like it meets your preferences.

smt
 
I have said it before and it bears repeating it again in this thread. Apa is no better or no worse than any other amateur organization. You will encounter players of high moral character and also liars....cheats and theives in every league. You will also encounter sandbaggers in every league.

In tap I played a few apa 7's even and spotted a 6 one game and I was a 5...just raised to a 6 recently.

In usapl I was rated 24 points higher than a 7/8. 20 points higher than a 7/9 and just 10 points lower than another 7/9 who only spotted me 4 balls a match...remember I was only a 5.

In bcapl I faced the same thing locally and there was a thread on the main page for a couple weeks recently complaining about handicaps at nationals this year. There is always a thread ir 2 every year complaining about bcapl nationals.

Last night at apa 9 ball I faced a 7 who I am positive dogged a few shots intentionally. Like I said....you have players in every league who sandbag.

Come to think of it Napa is the only league I have played where I never thought any ones handicap was out of line. I never encountered any one at the 2 nationals I played that i thought was out of line except for 2 guys that I thought was too high when I rolled over them but then they both could have been having a bad day.

To the op.....a few guys did explain some thing you would expect to encounter in apa pretty accurately. The type of tables you play on locally is not determined by apa...its determined by what's available in your area. In my area we play on valleys....7' diamonds and gold crowns.

There are numerous formats offered but what is available in a particular area depends on how popular that format is in that area.

We have

In house double jeapordy....play both 8 and 9 ball that night.
8 ball travel
9 ball travel
In house scotch doubles
Jack and Jill tournaments...ladies and men combined
Money tournaments...singles and teams
Masters....non handicapped race to 7...push outs and jump cues allowed.
Jr. Masters...same rules as masters but geared towards s/l 4's and 5's
Jr division for children.

His heard we are finally starting a strictly singles division .

I hope this info is what you were seeking as its what apa offers but again it depends on what is popular in each area as to what is available to you.

Good luck in your search for a league in your new area.
 
Don't let the naysayers run you off from joining a local APA league when you return home.

I've starting playing in the APA in 2013 and am still playing today. Overall it's been a lot of fun and I've met some great friends. I started out as a complete novice and found people in the league very helpful in learning the rules and improving my play.

League fees are set by the league operator so they vary. Green fees may or may not apply. The place I play APA has all 9 footers. We pay $7 to the LO and $6 to the room. I played a TAP league in a bar where there were no green fees, so it varies from place to place.

As some have said though, depending on your skill level, APA may not be the most suitable league for you. The 23 rule makes it difficult for 7-9's to play and I believe it is one of the biggest reasons why there are complaints of sandbagging. If you are good player and play it straight you will be shuffling teams fairly often, or sitting and watching more than you'd like.

Hopefully you will find a well run league, no matter the affiliation, full of good people to enjoy the game with.
 
Ha, this one's easy...you sandbag for the first year or maybe two, then get bumped up to a sl 7, then get locked in as a 7 for winning anything regional or above, then your team can't play you anymore cause they are pointed out on the nightly limit. You continue to show up just in case, but mostly to drink beer and maybe coach a bit...then you join a BCA league. Pretty simple. The fees are nominal you'll spend more on beer hanging out.


So true, in this situation now. Getting better only has reward when playing for money, not APA.
 
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