APA league Frustrations....

dooziexx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is my first session playing on an APA league and last nite was the last week of the regular season before the playoffs started. My team was in 2nd place trailing the 1st place team by 1 point. So last nite, the 1st place team's opponent decided to forfeit the entire nite hence handing the 1st place team 5 points and essentially became the division winner. This totally sucks. We totally got shafted and so did the 3rd and 4th place team because they all had a shot of winning the division since they trailed us by only a point. My captain immediately called the league operator and was told that there was nothing that they could do. Does this crap happens all time in APA leagues?? We busted our asses for 16 weeks to get a shot at taking first and this is how it ends?? How does it get handled by other leagues? Im thinking of quitting the league altogether.

The only good thing that came out of last nite was that I won the league MVP title...So its kind of a bitter sweet victory for me...
 
That really sucks. Normally if a team forfeits then the other team only gets 3 points.

Did the team that forfeit actually show up and purposely lose every match or did they not play at all?

If the league operator is not going to do anything then I would contact APA hq about it. Make sure to mention that your team and other teams are so disgusted with this bs that you are all about to quit. Even if it's not true, it will definitely get their attention.
 
dooziexx said:
This is my first session playing on an APA league and last nite was the last week of the regular season before the playoffs started. My team was in 2nd place trailing the 1st place team by 1 point. So last nite, the 1st place team's opponent decided to forfeit the entire nite hence handing the 1st place team 5 points and essentially became the division winner. This totally sucks. We totally got shafted and so did the 3rd and 4th place team because they all had a shot of winning the division since they trailed us by only a point. My captain immediately called the league operator and was told that there was nothing that they could do. Does this crap happens all time in APA leagues?? We busted our asses for 16 weeks to get a shot at taking first and this is how it ends?? How does it get handled by other leagues? Im thinking of quitting the league altogether.

The only good thing that came out of last nite was that I won the league MVP title...So its kind of a bitter sweet victory for me...


Hey Doozie,

League policies are going to vary from region to region. I know years back when I played in the APA, total forfeits counted for 4 points which is the equivelant of 3 wins out of 5. However, regardless of how your league director determines the value of a forfeit, this is something that any league member of any league has to account for. There is always the possibility of something like this occuring, especially toward the end of a season when teams begin to find better things to do because they're out of the running.

My suggestion to you is that you suggest to your league director incentives that would keep losing teams in the league. Most leagues use wildcard draws (random play-off selections) to keep teams interested. I know of one APA division that created an entire tournament for non-playoff teams. It's in your interest AND his to keep the entire league intact throughout the course of the season so he will likely be open to any new ideas.

It sucks, I know. We've all been there. My only suggestion beyond that is to try and accommodate for it. If 1st place is important to you, try to establish a lead that takes the final week out of the equation (a lead of 6 points or more). That way, you control your own fate.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
dooziexx said:
This is my first session playing on an APA league and last nite was the last week of the regular season before the playoffs started. My team was in 2nd place trailing the 1st place team by 1 point. So last nite, the 1st place team's opponent decided to forfeit the entire nite hence handing the 1st place team 5 points and essentially became the division winner. This totally sucks. We totally got shafted and so did the 3rd and 4th place team because they all had a shot of winning the division since they trailed us by only a point. My captain immediately called the league operator and was told that there was nothing that they could do. Does this crap happens all time in APA leagues?? We busted our asses for 16 weeks to get a shot at taking first and this is how it ends?? How does it get handled by other leagues? Im thinking of quitting the league altogether.

The only good thing that came out of last nite was that I won the league MVP title...So its kind of a bitter sweet victory for me...

very common issue, as far as leagues go. i don't get into the politics and such......so the only advice i can offer is just play on a team to play. don't worry about the place and such...just play. if you make 1st then its an added bonus. and if winning in a league means that much to you, then play on a team for fun, and enter the singles qualifiers.......its much easier to rely on your own skills to get you somewhere, then to rely on a team, and the politics to get you there.

thanks
 
That is frustrating. I have been on a team that was vying for first place and another team forfeited to our closest competitor at the end of the season for questionable motives. We got lucky and won that time but the intent to disrupt the outcome of the league was there. This was just another example of how dumping causes so much damage at any level of play. It’s not just the guys playing for big bucks that are capable of fouling up the nest by dumping.
 
breakup said:
That is frustrating. I have been on a team that was vying for first place and another team forfeited to our closest competitor at the end of the season for questionable motives. We got lucky and won that time but the intent to disrupt the outcome of the league was there. This was just another example of how dumping causes so much damage at any level of play. It’s not just the guys playing for big bucks that are capable of fouling up the nest by dumping.


Yes but the fundamental problem with this is, this only occurs when you're playing for something of value. The fact is, nobody wants that changed. The only thing I advise to anyone who is involved in a league is to keep on top of things. Bear in mind that most players are honest but keep an eye out for those that aren't. Any sort of corruption can completely unravel the entire league but constantly flagging opposing teams can also be disruptive. This particular instance merely looks like a team that lost interest but I could be wrong. It must be remembered that a league is a business first and its clients are its competitors. Any league director knows that you need to be careful in how you handle a situation. It's always best to create a situation where it's in each players' best interest to obey the rules.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Hey Doozie,

League policies are going to vary from region to region. I know years back when I played in the APA, total forfeits counted for 4 points which is the equivelant of 3 wins out of 5. However, regardless of how your league director determines the value of a forfeit, this is something that any league member of any league has to account for. There is always the possibility of something like this occuring, especially toward the end of a season when teams begin to find better things to do because they're out of the running.

My suggestion to you is that you suggest to your league director incentives that would keep losing teams in the league. Most leagues use wildcard draws (random play-off selections) to keep teams interested. I know of one APA division that created an entire tournament for non-playoff teams. It's in your interest AND his to keep the entire league intact throughout the course of the season so he will likely be open to any new ideas.

It sucks, I know. We've all been there. My only suggestion beyond that is to try and accommodate for it. If 1st place is important to you, try to establish a lead that takes the final week out of the equation (a lead of 6 points or more). That way, you control your own fate.


Jude M. Rosenstock

Jude,
Actually my league does have incentive for non-playoff teams. This what I believe how it works. The league winner automatically advances to the 'Challenge of Champions'. The next 4 best teams will battle it out and the winner of that advances to COC. The remainder teams will battle it out for the final spot for COC. So there is incentive for that team to show up. Im sure the match-ups depends on how the final standings are. Its just sucks all the way round thats all. And to shrug it off as 'That stuff happens' without any kind of resolution is not acceptable especially when people pay to play.

Maybe there should be a rule saying that forfeiting is not acceptable. Play make-up games if you cant make the league night. Thats why theres 8-man to a team with 3 alternates....
-Erik
 
I'm actually starting to think about leaving the league and just play one tournament a week. All the things mentioned have happened in our league and then some. Not to mention the fact that there are a handful of good players and the rest of the time it's a cake walk. I would much rather go to a tournament and lose two and out than win the best of the best in an APA league. I have noticed recently that my concentration really stinks because I have a tendency to play down to my opponents level which has never been the case. Just a little mentally drained I guess.
Doozie, that really does suck what happened and it has actually happened to my team before as well. If the APA, at least locally, were to be fair, they would issue a warning to that team and then give them the boot if something similar happened in the future. I think I will play out one more session and then make a decision. If the fun doesn't come back then it's bye bye APA and hello to getting my ass kicked in tournaments. At least then my game should start to progress again.
 
dooziexx said:
Jude,
Actually my league does have incentive for non-playoff teams. This what I believe how it works. The league winner automatically advances to the 'Challenge of Champions'. The next 4 best teams will battle it out and the winner of that advances to COC. The remainder teams will battle it out for the final spot for COC. So there is incentive for that team to show up. Im sure the match-ups depends on how the final standings are. Its just sucks all the way round thats all. And to shrug it off as 'That stuff happens' without any kind of resolution is not acceptable especially when people pay to play.

Maybe there should be a rule saying that forfeiting is not acceptable. Play make-up games if you cant make the league night. Thats why theres 8-man to a team with 3 alternates....
-Erik

Yes Erik, you say it's not acceptable but you're a league PLAYER not a league DIRECTOR. You see, these are his clients. You can offer incentives to have players finish the season but anything outside of that would be punitive which would only have a negative result. There will be times when it's necessary for a league director to kick someone out but he'll avoid this measure as much as humanly possible. Hey, everyone likes money. How can you force a team to do a make-up if it serves no real gain? What if that team has no desire to make the play-offs? You're assuming way too much.

"Hey this stuff happens" is a pure and simple truth. I can assure you, it'll happen again. People don't play in leagues for a living. The moment the league serves no purpose in their lives, they're going to stop going and there's nothing you can do that's going to get them there except offer incentives for them to show.

Regarding the rules, you can petition your league director to consider how scoring should be done in a forfeit situation. My old league director used to award 4 points (3 victories, 1 bonus) because it would be assumed that we won by the smallest of margins. I believe this may be a national rule but I could be wrong. The only instance when a team should get more is when their weekly average is significantly greater than this. The reason for this is that it should be assumed that the better team would have won anyway and probably would have continued at the pace they had throughout the season.

The point I was making (and everyone else for that matter) is that there are things you can control and things you can't. You control whether you play in this league or not. You control whether you show up or not. That's just about it. You cannot control the league rules. You cannot control your opponent's attendence. Worrying about what you cannot control is just a waste of time. Speak to your league director if it makes you that unhappy and consider your options if these things continue to happen but keep in mind that so long as there is league play, there will be forfeits.


In the end, are you having fun? Are you looking forward to the play-offs? Do you enjoy the matches? If you can say yes to these questions, you have nothing to complain about. If it's no, it's time to move on to something else.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
i hear where you are coming from man...in my league a forfeit usually means 4 points...3 points for the match and the 1 xtra point...ive never heard of teams getting 5 points in a forfeit....i have been playing in the apa now for 3 seasons i believe...the more i play in it the more i dislike it....once you get to regionals it is all sandbaggers...that is the only way to win in that league...its a shame but it is fact...i really think they should change the name from apa to sandbag city....also i dont like how at the regionals and in vegas that they have you play on 7 footers...i know most bars have 7 footers, but i am not a fan of it...anyway good luck in your league
 
DDKoop said:
I'm actually starting to think about leaving the league and just play one tournament a week. All the things mentioned have happened in our league and then some. Not to mention the fact that there are a handful of good players and the rest of the time it's a cake walk. I would much rather go to a tournament and lose two and out than win the best of the best in an APA league. I have noticed recently that my concentration really stinks because I have a tendency to play down to my opponents level which has never been the case. Just a little mentally drained I guess.
Doozie, that really does suck what happened and it has actually happened to my team before as well. If the APA, at least locally, were to be fair, they would issue a warning to that team and then give them the boot if something similar happened in the future. I think I will play out one more session and then make a decision. If the fun doesn't come back then it's bye bye APA and hello to getting my ass kicked in tournaments. At least then my game should start to progress again.


Go to www.BCA-Pool.com and check out their leagues. Their Championships in Las Vegas are second to none. I've been to Vegas for both the APA and BCA and the two simply do not compare. BCA is the best.


Jude M. Rosenstock
 
theoneandonly said:
i hear where you are coming from man...in my league a forfeit usually means 4 points...3 points for the match and the 1 xtra point...ive never heard of teams getting 5 points in a forfeit....i have been playing in the apa now for 3 seasons i believe...the more i play in it the more i dislike it....once you get to regionals it is all sandbaggers...that is the only way to win in that league...its a shame but it is fact...i really think they should change the name from apa to sandbag city....also i dont like how at the regionals and in vegas that they have you play on 7 footers...i know most bars have 7 footers, but i am not a fan of it...anyway good luck in your league

well alot of sandbagging goes on, but alot of it is not sandbagging.

the way i understand it, is that your scores are put into the computer by the league director, but the scores are only compared with the people under your league director. therefore if there isn't an abundance of good players in your area then your upper level players (6-9) are not going to be as good as the upper level players of an area that has alot of skilled players. thats why you see a 5 somewhere that can easily run a couple racks, then go somewhere else and a 5 can't get out to save his life.

also when you get to 7 footers you see quite a few more runs.

thanks
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Go to www.BCA-Pool.com and check out their leagues. Their Championships in Las Vegas are second to none. I've been to Vegas for both the APA and BCA and the two simply do not compare. BCA is the best.


Jude M. Rosenstock

Thank you Jude. I will be sure to check it out.

Dave
 
dooziexx said:
This is my first session playing on an APA league and last nite was the last week of the regular season before the playoffs started. My team was in 2nd place trailing the 1st place team by 1 point. So last nite, the 1st place team's opponent decided to forfeit the entire nite hence handing the 1st place team 5 points and essentially became the division winner. This totally sucks. We totally got shafted and so did the 3rd and 4th place team because they all had a shot of winning the division since they trailed us by only a point. My captain immediately called the league operator and was told that there was nothing that they could do. Does this crap happens all time in APA leagues?? We busted our asses for 16 weeks to get a shot at taking first and this is how it ends?? How does it get handled by other leagues? Im thinking of quitting the league altogether.

The only good thing that came out of last nite was that I won the league MVP title...So its kind of a bitter sweet victory for me...

lol...welcome to the APA...lol.

Doozie, it appears you've outgrown the baby league and had better move on. I lasted less than a year in that league, because I wasn't willing to let my game go to hell "for fun." I like fun, but the APA ain't it for me.

This ame thing happened to us 2 years ago, with the dumping team in the same bar as we were! It was the league playoffs. It came this (hold index finger and thumb together) close to breaking out in a big brawl. We basically let it be known that if the dumping team (good players, btw) did it again, they'd pay for it (and I don't mean with money). They have since left that league and gone to another. I've noticed that they've also grown up quite a bit since then.

The league operator understood the problem and changed the format to using two different bars for the playoffs so one match would "invisible" to the other.

Be a leader for your team and the other APAers and show them the right way to play....in another league.

jmo,

Jeff Livingston
 
Kind of hard to believe but I don't see any leagues in or around Boston. Only one in MA and it's in the western part of the state. Oh well, at least we have a playoff match Monday night. Yippee!
 
DDKoop said:
Kind of hard to believe but I don't see any leagues in or around Boston. Only one in MA and it's in the western part of the state. Yippee!

there's no law against starting your own league or weekly tournament. if there are no other leagues there, you might find it successful to run something yourself.
 
vapoolplayer said:
there's no law against starting your own league or weekly tournament. if there are no other leagues there, you might find it successful to run something yourself.

Absolutely. If I only had the time. Between family, work and school I doubt I would be able to fully commit to running a league. Hence the reason I only play once a week :(
 
rayjay said:
I played two sessions in APA. I'm very happy now in BCA. 'Nuff said.
rayjay :cool:


Don't get me wrong, I can go on and on all day about the wonderful experiences I had playing for the APA. The people were a lot of fun. Being an s/l 7 was like obtaining celebrity status and the entire experience was profitable. However, out of the 3 times I went to Vegas, my best time was with the BCA.

For starters, there are no handicaps. There comes a point in one's life when you no longer wish to travel 2,500 miles knowing you're going to give someone weight.

Secondly, you don't need to win the trip. The fact is, even from NYC, Vegas packages are cheap. There's no need to put in a year's worth of play only to miss the dance. Through the BCA, you just go. No invitations necessary.

Thirdly, there's no bs. Even though I met some great people through the APA, there are an UNPRECEDENTED number of whiners. If they're not questioning your handicap, they're questioning your very existence (I'm actually serious). On several occasions, I've had people argue that I shouldn't be allowed to play amateur pool (which would create a nice laugh among my real pool-playing buddies). The fact is, most of the people who play in the APA aren't pool players. They're muggles with pool cues. The BCA rewards the best and the best are expected to attend. It's a much more positive attitude.


Like I said before, the APA can be a lot of fun. You get a team of friends and hang out in some bar for five hours, playing pool. Even better, you get to visit other bars and meet people. It's great. However, it's not necessarily pool. If there's one thing I care not to do ever again in my life, it's watch two s/l 2's battle it out for two hours. I'm sorry but I have better things to do with my time (like watching commercials). In the BCA, there's greater flexibility and the national events basically encourages leagues to recruit people who have a serious interest in the game.



Jude M. Rosenstock
 
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