APA league operator conduct

gesan

gesan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences with Lee Tiani league operator (owner) Alexandria,VA or if this is just an isolated incident (bad day?)

I went to fast eddies in Alexandria, Va today to play in an APA tier 2 playoff
there was a dispute over some rules and since Lee was there a couple of players went up to Lee and calmly asked him to make a ruling

He started right away cursing and yelling and generally acting very unprofessional - much more so then any of the players on either of the 2 teams (though a couple of the younger guys were pretty worked up as well) some suggested this might be why Lee blew up at some other players who did not even raise their voices and appeared to be asking perfectly logical questions in a very calm fashion.

My question is - is this his normal patteren of behavior?



He seemed to have no regard for his customers and when 1 older gentleman said he was not sure if he wanted to continue particapating in the APA based on his reaction to a simple request to make a common sense decision - he screamed at him and said good I hope you do quit the league or words to that effect peppered with cursing

I am no saint and have been known to cuss with the best of em - but I usually control myself around women and family types -

Is the APA doing so well that 1 of its biggest operators can afford to alienate its members?

Have any of you ladies and gents ever dealt with this guy?

I am just curious - seems to support the growing adage that customer service is dead

I want to give him the benifit of the doubt - not that he needs me to excuse his behavior - but if this is normal for him - perhaps I will rethink my own participation in the APA.

thanks for any info you might share
 
My own APA experience

The APA league owner in my area does a better job of controlling his temper. However the end result is not much better. He does NOT have a web site, but does have an email address. I had a rules question and sent him an email. He never answered. :rolleyes: A week later I called on the phone and left a message that I had a question. He never returned my call. :mad: A week after that he came in where I was and I asked about my email and my phone call. Here is his exact reply. "Yeah, I got your email and phone call, but I figured is wasn't important so I didn't bother getting back to u". :eek: :mad: He didn't even know my question, but figured it wasn't important enough for him to waste his time getting back to me. :mad: Like u said, I am his customer and he didn't feel I was important. :eek: His dress is to the extreem of the casual side (sloppy) and so are his actions. His actions are more like someone who has too much to drink or is a little hi. Not at all like a professional business person.

It wasn't long after that when I decided to leave APA and went to APL, which is a member of BCA. I love it and never want to go back to APA. APL has a great web site where I can check on schedules, standings, scores, and records, plus more.
http://www.amateurpoolleague.com/
If I email or phone the league owner, he is back to me within the same day. He is pleasant, friendly, dresses well, and is very business like. The difference between the 2 league owners is nite and day. At our last regional tournament there was a rules question. He came out, listened to both sides and made his ruleing. His rueling was fair and seemd to b correct. He is well respected and neither side complained. End of problem.

If your APA owner and my ex APA owner are any indication of how APA operates, it is a sorry affair. :(

Charlie
 
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Theres always two sides to the story so its hard to picture.

Honestly why would a guy go off on his own people for no reason when
players are asking questions in a reasonable tone and without being confrontational.

Very odd. I think the only people that I would ask about his behavior are theones that saw it first hand that night.

If there appears to be a problem then I would ahv eno problem addressing it with the APA. I wouldn't hold this guys actions ( if wrong) against the organization.


--------------

In the other case of a guy telling me that my questoin probably was not worth it then I would have discussed that with the APA. Again I wouldnt
find fault in an organization because of a bad apple.
 
Well, I do not know this guy but I think it is clear, that many league operators do not see the participants as you do, as customers. Though that is exactly what they are. Until you said that, I have to admit, in all my years of APA participation ( I have been happily APA free for over a year!) I never thought about it like that either. And this lack of perception is why many will ultimatly fail.
I know that they have big league operators meetings every year during the Vegas team event and this would be a very good topic. I think if more of them approached it as a actual business, rather then an activity and the players as paying customers, rather than nats that need swatting, it would improve the overall system.
 
In my APA experience(5years), the operaters have to deal with people and teams whining and crying over fair handicaps, rulings, and every other problem when you gather a bunch of mature adults(?????) together. I'm sure it's frustrating to them to have to baby sit.

With that being said, the operaters in my area are crooked. They do everything to help people they like, and nothing for the ones they dislike. I should have been a 7, my numbers were of a 6, but I was bagging, and she new it. I was told to let them deal with me in Vegas (yeah I was on her good side).

My partner and I won a partners trip to vegas, and were told we could not go for partners, and teams, so we chose teams. Well, I know the second place finishers in the partners Vegas tourny, and they were not asked to attend after we decided not to go. Hmmmm, what do you think happened to all the money from the tourny?? Didn't go to airfare, and hotel I can tell you that.

This is just some of the stories from my area, I have many more, and some from Vegas as well.

I would recommend staying out of the APA, and trying out your local league if you have them.

Rodney

P.S. 1 more thing, each year, there's more, and more participation in the APA, yet do you see the prize money increasing in Vegas? The amount of teams increased the 4 times I went to Vegas, not the prize money.

All about the $$
 
that really sucks .....I was in an identical situation a few years ago..
won a trip to vegas with my team......and a trip with one of the girls on the team by winning a scotch doubles tournament...we went to vegas early , then our team joined us later....
I was raised to a seven after our first match ( team ) , which ended our chance to win it all.
 
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Wow!!!!!!!!

I guess the league I play is one of the lucky ones. Our operator always answers questions, calmly listens to the "whiny" complaints about skill levels, and is just an all around easy guy to talk to.

His stress level does go up when it's tournament time or ESPECIALLY Tri-Annuals and The City Championship, but he is still cordial too all of the members.

Please tell me I'm not the only AZ'er that has an operator like this.
 
gesan said:
I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences with Lee Tiani league operator (owner) Alexandria,VA or if this is just an isolated incident (bad day?)

I went to fast eddies in Alexandria, Va today to play in an APA tier 2 playoff
there was a dispute over some rules and since Lee was there a couple of players went up to Lee and calmly asked him to make a ruling

He started right away cursing and yelling and generally acting very unprofessional - much more so then any of the players on either of the 2 teams (though a couple of the younger guys were pretty worked up as well) some suggested this might be why Lee blew up at some other players who did not even raise their voices and appeared to be asking perfectly logical questions in a very calm fashion.

My question is - is this his normal patteren of behavior?



He seemed to have no regard for his customers and when 1 older gentleman said he was not sure if he wanted to continue particapating in the APA based on his reaction to a simple request to make a common sense decision - he screamed at him and said good I hope you do quit the league or words to that effect peppered with cursing

I am no saint and have been known to cuss with the best of em - but I usually control myself around women and family types -

Is the APA doing so well that 1 of its biggest operators can afford to alienate its members?

Have any of you ladies and gents ever dealt with this guy?

I am just curious - seems to support the growing adage that customer service is dead

I want to give him the benifit of the doubt - not that he needs me to excuse his behavior - but if this is normal for him - perhaps I will rethink my own participation in the APA.

thanks for any info you might share
Click to expand...


Regardless of whether this was an isolated incident or pattern, I would recommend relaying this information to the national office. If you have others who witnessed this, you may also want them to do the same. They would certainly want to know if this kind of thing is happening and would likely know best on how to help keep it from happening again.
 
Apa

The APA operators I have dealt with aren't like that he must have been drunk, however they all seem to be total morons that have little regard for the player if they don't know them, and think that because the league is so big, players are expendable. I quit my APA teams, there are too may other leagues and in-house leagues to worry about the APA. Also there is too big of a talent level from one APA division to the next and I got way over ranked because of it i'm not a 9-ball "8" but i have to play as one because of the intense sandbagging that goes on. I have to give points to players that are twice my speed.

Ted
 
s'portplayer said:
I guess the league I play is one of the lucky ones. Our operator always answers questions, calmly listens to the "whiny" complaints about skill levels, and is just an all around easy guy to talk to.

His stress level does go up when it's tournament time or ESPECIALLY Tri-Annuals and The City Championship, but he is still cordial too all of the members.

Please tell me I'm not the only AZ'er that has an operator like this.
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You are not the only one. I have played in the APA for 10 years in Baltimore, MD. Terry Justice is the league operator and I think he does an outstanding job.
 
The APA operator for Kansas City is a jerk also. Tom Campbell could not care less about the players, or providing any kind of customer service. Thats why everyone is going BCA. APA attendence in this area is dropping.
 
Apa

The various APA divisions range from total recreational leagues to very competitive. I think the APA should do a better job seperating the divisions kind of like little league baseball. The APA has enough players to have a rec league and a competitive league. Increase the handicap total to 30 on the competitive side and leave it at 23 on the rec side.

If it wasn't for beer drinkers I dont think the APA would be in business

Ted
 
Da Poet said:
Regardless of whether this was an isolated incident or pattern, I would recommend relaying this information to the national office. If you have others who witnessed this, you may also want them to do the same. They would certainly want to know if this kind of thing is happening and would likely know best on how to help keep it from happening again.
Click to expand...
The team captain did in fact report this to the APA LO. They responded in a very professional and curteous fashion.

They said the LD was correct in his ruling and had infact tried to talk the other team out of such unsportsman like conduct.

No mention of their
own rule against delibrete forfiet - and there was no response what so ever regarding the conduct of the LO even though both were mentioned in the email to their office

we call that "home cookin"
 
gesan said:
The team captain did in fact report this to the APA LO. They responded in a very professional and curteous fashion.

They said the LD was correct in his ruling and had infact tried to talk the other team out of such unsportsman like conduct.

No mention of their
own rule against delibrete forfiet - and there was no response what so ever regarding the conduct of the LO even though both were mentioned in the email to their office

we call that "home cookin"
Click to expand...

I can't comment on how the LO treated you guys or the situation because I was not there and its always tought to choose a side afterwards. However you have mentioned a rule about not being able to forfeit and thats just not true. In fact you can forfeit at anytime. I think the rule that you are thinking about actually refers to TWO teams colaborating to
forfeit matches for one of the teams beneift. What happens is that my team would play your team and your team needed wins to qualify but mine did not or couldn't. So I tell my guys to not show up and then your team gets all 5 matches.
Here is the rule
h. Deliberate forfeits will not be tolerated. If the League Operator/Board
of Governors is satisfied that the receiving team conspired to receive
deliberate forfeit points, then the points would not be counted.
Depending upon the situation and evidence, either or both teams would
be subject to other penalties.

While I dont agree with what your opposition did I don't think that they were wrong according to the rules. I also do feel that its a teams responsibility to have 8 players there and ready especially in a HLT.

Right now one of my teams only has 6 players with the 6th really not wanting to come very often. So beforehand I explained that to only keep the 5-6 players on the team and no one else that we might have to forfeit a mathc here and there if something comes up. Everyone was in agreement however we did add a couple other friends to the roster in case
of a major emergency.
 
I hear ya and you are probably correct as far as the rules go - my point is they didn't address either point - deliberet forfiet or LO conduct at all.

also as far as the # of players go - just for the record that is the first time we ever had to forfiet because we didn't have enough players ever (still no excuse) we did have 4 in the building 1 was playing at the time in a match that had it been allowed to end normally - at the least with our player winning 2 games straight would have easily allowed time for the 5th guy to be in the room - the 5th guy had to work but was in the building when the discussion took place. assitant captain was in the hospital emergency total unexpected -

1 player had a way previous vaction planned (before playoff was scheduled) and was out of town - the only 7 on the team felt theatened by the security guard who was in front of the poolroom to ensure no players parked in the parking lot forcing us to park in a school across a major rd behind the poolroom - so he went home(shame on him) the same guy (security guard ) couldn't have been nicer to me. the bottom line is the LO acted in accordance with the letter of the law.
HOWEVER!
I'm a grandfather of 8 and challenge the APA to find 1 player (using their infamous computer and my league #) that I have ever played winner or loser that would accuse me of any unsportsman like behavior. Any team captain or local league operator. Thats pretty strong. APA LO implied I might be a guy with a history of problems.

since the 5th guy was in the pking lot and called on his cell to tell us he would be there as soon as he parked and the other team heard the call and then went into forfiet mode. (we were playing at the time)I merely went to the LO to ask if he had any discretion in the matter - at that point there was only myself and a young woman involved in the conversation and neither of us raised our voices. I greeted the guy with HI lee how are ya? As I said I'm not some immature kid and I thought 2 mature people could resolve the issue in a fair and respectful fashion. I was shocked and humiliated! IF I get treated poorly in a resturant - I tell other people - by the same token if I'm treated well - I share that info - thats all I'm doing

I have on several occasions in the other thread invited him to share his side of the story - the APA LO has been invited to tell it for him - so far no show

of course you are right about 2 sides to every story I maintain you can make a judgement based on my posts and theirs.

I'm not trying to judge anyone harshly I would think in a common sense world they would have us play the match over (I know they won't) so I'm sharing my experience - I'm told I'm a marked man now in the APA -I feel like hippacrite playing now anyway but I will finish this season - I brought 5 new players to this league this session - That 5 and a couple more will play in the local TAP league next session - the guy who runs that league told me Saturday he DOES have some discretion and would have (under that set of circumstances) had the game decided on the table.
 
gesan said:
I hear ya and you are probably correct as far as the rules go - my point is they didn't address either point - deliberet forfiet or LO conduct at all.

also as far as the # of players go - just for the record that is the first time we ever had to forfiet because we didn't have enough players ever (still no excuse) we did have 4 in the building 1 was playing at the time in a match that had it been allowed to end normally - at the least with our player winning 2 games straight would have easily allowed time for the 5th guy to be in the room - the 5th guy had to work but was in the building when the discussion took place. assitant captain was in the hospital emergency total unexpected -

1 player had a way previous vaction planned (before playoff was scheduled) and was out of town - the only 7 on the team felt theatened by the security guard who was in front of the poolroom to ensure no players parked in the parking lot forcing us to park in a school across a major rd behind the poolroom - so he went home(shame on him) the same guy (security guard ) couldn't have been nicer to me. the bottom line is the LO acted in accordance with the letter of the law.
HOWEVER!
I'm a grandfather of 8 and challenge the APA to find 1 player (using their infamous computer and my league #) that I have ever played winner or loser that would accuse me of any unsportsman like behavior. Any team captain or local league operator. Thats pretty strong. APA LO implied I might be a guy with a history of problems.

since the 5th guy was in the pking lot and called on his cell to tell us he would be there as soon as he parked and the other team heard the call and then went into forfiet mode. (we were playing at the time)I merely went to the LO to ask if he had any discretion in the matter - at that point there was only myself and a young woman involved in the conversation and neither of us raised our voices. I greeted the guy with HI lee how are ya? As I said I'm not some immature kid and I thought 2 mature people could resolve the issue in a fair and respectful fashion. I was shocked and humiliated! IF I get treated poorly in a resturant - I tell other people - by the same token if I'm treated well - I share that info - thats all I'm doing

I have on several occasions in the other thread invited him to share his side of the story - the APA LO has been invited to tell it for him - so far no show

of course you are right about 2 sides to every story I maintain you can make a judgement based on my posts and theirs.

I'm not trying to judge anyone harshly I would think in a common sense world they would have us play the match over (I know they won't) so I'm sharing my experience - I'm told I'm a marked man now in the APA -I feel like hippacrite playing now anyway but I will finish this season - I brought 5 new players to this league this session - That 5 and a couple more will play in the local TAP league next session - the guy who runs that league told me Saturday he DOES have some discretion and would have (under that set of circumstances) had the game decided on the table.
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I explained how you could go about resolving your dispute. If the person you spoke to at the National Office couldn't answer your concerns, then you should ask to speak to someone who can.

I totally understand your frustrations and I wish I could help you more, but I have my own issues to resolve and my own league to run. I can almost guarantee you that Lee is not going to join a billiards message board forum and speak publicly about the problems between you and him. It's not a public matter. And I'm certainly not going to call Lee and relay what he says back here. I'm not a mediator. I'm just a league operator attempting to assist you with the proper channels to be heard.
 
cuesblues said:
If it wasn't for beer drinkers I dont think the APA would be in business

Ted
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This statement shows ignorance. There are many tens of thousands of APA league players that do not drink at all. The APA is still the best league opportunity for RECREATIONAL poolplayers, and to bring new players into the sport. Yes there are a few bad league operators...just as there are in other leagues too. The huge majority are fair, professional, and their players love them. Their leagues are continually growing too.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
gesan said:
My question is - is this his normal patteren of behavior?
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Definately Not!

The league operator here in Charleston, SC is Bruce Bates and he's a perfect gentleman. He was voted LO of the year by the APA and he definately deserved it because he runs a first class operation.

I think someone in your area should report your LO to the APA headquarters and let them give him an attitude adjustment or replace him with someone who wants the job and is willing to deal with people the right way.
 
gesan said:
I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences with Lee Tiani league operator (owner) Alexandria,VA or if this is just an isolated incident (bad day?)

I went to fast eddies in Alexandria, Va today to play in an APA tier 2 playoff
there was a dispute over some rules and since Lee was there a couple of players went up to Lee and calmly asked him to make a ruling

He started right away cursing and yelling and generally acting very unprofessional - much more so then any of the players on either of the 2 teams (though a couple of the younger guys were pretty worked up as well) some suggested this might be why Lee blew up at some other players who did not even raise their voices and appeared to be asking perfectly logical questions in a very calm fashion.

My question is - is this his normal patteren of behavior?



He seemed to have no regard for his customers and when 1 older gentleman said he was not sure if he wanted to continue particapating in the APA based on his reaction to a simple request to make a common sense decision - he screamed at him and said good I hope you do quit the league or words to that effect peppered with cursing.....
Click to expand...

For Lee, this is out of character. I had Lee as a LO for around 9 years and never ever heard him do this, or anyone else mentioning something like this.

Lee could get short with complete idiots, and in those instances I actually praised him. I liked his decisiveness. I'll bet you that these guys had previously jerked his chain and that they deserved what they got. What was the question anyway?!!!!!!

Bottom line I think - you probably don't have the entire story/facts. Also, I have never seen Lee stewed at any event, not to say of course that it couldn't happen. He has always acted like a gentleman to me.
 
APA LO said:
I explained how you could go about resolving your dispute. If the person you spoke to at the National Office couldn't answer your concerns, then you should ask to speak to someone who can.

I totally understand your frustrations and I wish I could help you more, but I have my own issues to resolve and my own league to run. I can almost guarantee you that Lee is not going to join a billiards message board forum and speak publicly about the problems between you and him. It's not a public matter. And I'm certainly not going to call Lee and relay what he says back here. I'm not a mediator. I'm just a league operator attempting to assist you with the proper channels to be heard.
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I appreciate your response and your position - I went to the local guy on site (Lee) and was insulted - the team went to the LO - I will post their response - and as for it not being a public matter - he didn't mind making it public when he was cussing and yelling - just so its clear this was not a telephone conversation. - My apoligies to you as far as my expectations - I thought you were the APA L office. The fact that you have taken the time you have speaks volumes about you and I mean you no disrespect.

As far as Whitewolf - I felt the same way until Saturday - until then I would have said the same thing.
 
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