APA love it or hate it?

[Cory in DC]

So you are saying that a pool league can't be good for pool if it doesn't allow you to play? I don't think that is the criteria that should be used.

BTW, I have no idea of your age, but the APA allows players to become members at the age of 18. The following is copied from the national APA web site.

"You must be 18 years or older to participate in regular APA Leagues (some areas may require players to be 21 or older)."

If you are age 18, it may be your local LO or local laws that are keeping you out, not the APA. If you are under age 18, you certainly shouldn't be in a bar or pool room serving alcohol. Enjoy whatever league you are in until you are older.

There are under-18 leagues in some markets -- it's up to your local LO and the level of interest.

http://www.poolplayers.com/under18.html

More generally, if you don't like it, don't play. If you don't think it's good that APA helps bars with tables and pool halls stay in business, then hopefully you'll enjoy traveling farther to play pool (we just lost another pool hall in DC a few weeks ago).

And if more than 1% of your wins and losses really depend on whether slop counts or not, then you need to spend some time working on your game. Maybe join a league or something....

Cory

 

[jrt30004]

lol, i thought the first choice covered it, if you love apa you love slop imho. i will say hi to him and yell at him to do his mother drills, he has been slacking.


Ben

i don't think loving the apa equals loving slop. i hate the fact that when i'm stuck playing a 2 or 3 they are going to get lucky once in a while but if you play, you play. i'm a 6 in nine ball and 5 soon to be 6 in eight ball and my feeling is this - don't like slop affecting your game, run out or play safe. don't whine about being stuck with what you made on the break, treat it as a challenge. just because you play bca doesn't mean you're in a better league or different class of player. i can whoop on some of the bca only guys on a regular basis no matter what rules we use. and lets face it when someone hits the upper skill levels in any league you should be able to win no matter what the rules. all this being said - i want to puch who ever came up with scoring nine ball by points right in the mouth. aside from that the apa ain't that bad.

 

[Gregg]

'Scuse me if I'm wrong, but doesn't slop in nine ball count?

And yes, I've been playing APA 8 ball for five years, and I don't recall losing a match because of slop.

 

[Flettir]

Safeties

This may or may not be the appropriate thread but I've been an 8 for two years any general ideas about what to look for to be a 9 (I might be the only APA player in exsistence looking to raise my skill level)?

I noticed my safeties aren't always recorded could that alone be the difference between a 8 and 9?

You can do what I do. After I do a safe I announce to the other team that it was a safe loudly enough to be heard by my scorekeeper too. Example "That was a safety, it was a very bad safety, but a safety none the less." Or "I really did not mean to make that bank, that was a supposed to be a defensive miss, not a made shot."

Hope that helps to get your safeties recorded, it works for me.

 

[Flettir]

Youth League

Its also supposed to be the largest pool league in the US. How does it help the game if young players aren't allowed in to play?

Ben

In my area the LO has started a Sat youth league at the local family pool hall. It seems to be going well and getting the youth involved and some couching by some of the higher level adult players. The best in our town, who is a shortstop, offen goes and couches there.

 

[hilla_hilla]

Currently, I am not playing APA. Taking a bit of a break. A LONG break:smile: .

I hate the commitment of having to be somewhere EVERY week. I dislike worrying about teammates and whether or not they are going to show up. I also dislike constantly having to search for 2's or 3's because somehow, my 2 that can't make 2 balls in a row becomes a 5 over night .

The first few years of APA I played on a team that had 2 7's on it. Both 7's insisted that I sand bag which I think hurt my mental game a LOT . Now-a-days, years later I still have a lack of desire to win and it's unfortunate that I have this poor mind set and think this way.

I prefer playing call shot, myself. Slop drives me nuts but if I'm going to play APA, it's something I gotta put up with...

The positive of APA is the social aspect. I also think that the APA is good for people who are starting off learning to play pool in a fun enviroment instead of a super competative enviroment with constant barking like the pool hall. The Southwest Challenge is also usually a lot of fun, but then again... when is Vegas NOT fun?:grin:

 

[hilla_hilla]

Duplicate post, deleted .

 

[Dave Nelson]

Gregg

I am not bashing APA. This thread asked for opinions. I gave mine. The conditions I described existed at every APA event at which I was present. To me, the worst part is the smoke. I can't stand it so I don't participate. I know that there are some very good players in APA. In fact, at least half of the players in our straight pool round robin also play in the APA leagues. As for my using my expertice to help weaker players, I have stated more than once that I am a C player, second from the bottom. I am not qualified to help anyone.

Dave Nelson

 

[Rak9up]

New Idea

There's no incentive to go up in skill level. Better to be a strong 5 or 4 rather than a weak 6. I think The APA should revamp its payout structure.
For example have handicapps 1 to 10
10 get 100% of payout 9 gets 90% 8 gets 80% so on .......
Therefore lets say a team of 7 people won $700 (7 equal starting points)
The 10 on the team would get $100(he deserves that he has spent more time/money practicing)
The 5 would get 50% or $50(has less time/money invested)
so on.........
After the baseline payouts have been paid whatever money amount is left from the original $700 (because not everyone will get 100%) the remaining
money from the unpaid percentages divided evenly among all 7

That way when a team wins money... the 2 that Just learned which end of the cue to point at the cueball doesn't get same amount of money as the 10 that has practiced and improved for 10 or 20 years.

Since its money is the reason most sandbagg maybe money could also fix the problem.

 

[jrt30004]

There's no incentive to go up in skill level. Better to be a strong 5 or 4 rather than a weak 6. I think The APA should revamp its payout structure.
For example have handicapps 1 to 10
10 get 100% of payout 9 gets 90% 8 gets 80% so on .......
Therefore lets say a team of 7 people won $700 (7 equal starting points)
The 10 on the team would get $100(he deserves that he has spent more time/money practicing)
The 5 would get 50% or $50(has less time/money invested)
so on.........
After the baseline payouts have been paid whatever money amount is left from the original $700 (because not everyone will get 100%) the remaining
money from the unpaid percentages divided evenly among all 7

That way when a team wins money... the 2 that Just learned which end of the cue to point at the cueball doesn't get same amount of money as the 10 that has practiced and improved for 10 or 20 years.

Since its money is the reason most sandbagg maybe money could also fix the problem.

yeah - not really. the 2's and 3's on the teams who do get to the cash rounds are either good enough to deserve a fair share of cash or sandbaggin. and if they are baggin they are doing at the request of the higher ranked players your system would reward. i would never think of not paying out equal, it's a team effort, you accept that going in, the spoils of victory are shared by all. if you seek individual glory and want the cash for yourself play in tournaments - that's what i've started doing.

 

[Rich R.]

There's no incentive to go up in skill level. Better to be a strong 5 or 4 rather than a weak 6. I think The APA should revamp its payout structure.
For example have handicapps 1 to 10
10 get 100% of payout 9 gets 90% 8 gets 80% so on .......
Therefore lets say a team of 7 people won $700 (7 equal starting points)
The 10 on the team would get $100(he deserves that he has spent more time/money practicing)
The 5 would get 50% or $50(has less time/money invested)
so on.........
After the baseline payouts have been paid whatever money amount is left from the original $700 (because not everyone will get 100%) the remaining
money from the unpaid percentages divided evenly among all 7

That way when a team wins money... the 2 that Just learned which end of the cue to point at the cueball doesn't get same amount of money as the 10 that has practiced and improved for 10 or 20 years.

Since its money is the reason most sandbagg maybe money could also fix the problem.

The APA pays out money to the team, not to individuals. Your team can divide the money any way they want to. I suggest you bring your system up to your team and see what they say.

 

[Scott Lee]

Cory...Although the APA site lists those counties where apparently junior leagues are POSSIBLE, almost NONE of them have active junior leagues operational. I know of only one or two in the entire country.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

There are under-18 leagues in some markets -- it's up to your local LO and the level of interest.

http://www.poolplayers.com/under18.html

Cory

 

[Steve Ellis]

lol, i thought the first choice covered it, if you love apa you love slop imho. i will say hi to him and yell at him to do his mother drills, he has been slacking.


Ben

I've got to agree with what Scott said, slop has very little effect on the outcome of a match. Rarely it effects an individual game and even more rarely it effects a match. I'd say it effects the game about as much as somebody accidentally leaving you safe, maybe less.
JMHO.

 

[Rak9up]

Its not individual glory.......... at your Job for example lets say you have 2 people a guy with a master degree and 10 years experience and a guy with nothing. Do they deserve the same pay NO.

The Job is a team effort but not everyone is compensated the same (in the real world) and everyone accepts that going in.

If the APA would change its payout structure maybe it would help with the sandbagging issue. Not pay a team payout but by skill level individually.

This would help both sides of the spectrum it would give the low skill levels a reason to try and get better and the upper skill levels would get more compensation which is what they deserve also.

So I ask...

What with the current APA structure is the 4's incentive to become a higher skill level.(NOTHING)
or is the the current structure geared toward his incentive to be the best 2 he can be be.
But if you paid the winnings based on skill level and not not team. Like if a 5 cheats and says he's a 2 his gain is only 20% so wheres the incentive to
sandbagg now?

 

[Rich R.]

Its not individual glory.......... at your Job for example lets say you have 2 people a guy with a master degree and 10 years experience and a guy with nothing. Do they deserve the same pay NO.

The Job is a team effort but not everyone is compensated the same (in the real world) and everyone accepts that going in.

If the APA would change its payout structure maybe it would help with the sandbagging issue. Not pay a team payout but by skill level individually.

This would help both sides of the spectrum it would give the low skill levels a reason to try and get better and the upper skill levels would get more compensation which is what they deserve also.

So I ask...

What with the current APA structure is the 4's incentive to become a higher skill level.(NOTHING)
or is the the current structure geared toward his incentive to be the best 2 he can be be.
But if you paid the winnings based on skill level and not not team. Like if a 5 cheats and says he's a 2 his gain is only 20% so wheres the incentive to
sandbagg now?

I have to disagree with you, especially with APA 8-ball.
No team can play more than one or two high level players in any one match, due to the 23 point rule. Therefore, no team can win without their lower level players winning a match or two.
Also, just because you are a high level player, that does not insure that you will win your individual match. Therefore, every match is of equal value. Every team member is valuable, regardless of skill level. Nobody wins every match.

As far as incentive to improve goes, that is a personal thing. If you are inclined to cheat, which is what sandbagging is, you will do it. You will justify it to yourself somehow, regarless of the money involved.
If you have a sense of honor and honesty, you will put out your best effort in every match.

I have been on the same APA team for more than 5 years and I am proud to say I have never heard my team captain ask any player to dump a match or attempt to control their skill level in any way.
On a personal note, since joining this team, I have moved from an sl-4 to an sl-6 and I have never lost a match on purpose.

 

[jrt30004]

Its not individual glory.......... at your Job for example lets say you have 2 people a guy with a master degree and 10 years experience and a guy with nothing. Do they deserve the same pay NO.

The Job is a team effort but not everyone is compensated the same (in the real world) and everyone accepts that going in.

If the APA would change its payout structure maybe it would help with the sandbagging issue. Not pay a team payout but by skill level individually.

This would help both sides of the spectrum it would give the low skill levels a reason to try and get better and the upper skill levels would get more compensation which is what they deserve also.

So I ask...

What with the current APA structure is the 4's incentive to become a higher skill level.(NOTHING)
or is the the current structure geared toward his incentive to be the best 2 he can be be.
But if you paid the winnings based on skill level and not not team. Like if a 5 cheats and says he's a 2 his gain is only 20% so wheres the incentive to
sandbagg now?

i can only speak for myself and say my incentive to move up has always been personal. i want to be better than everyone i play against. and this goes back to my point about pay outs. the APA or BCA or TAP or any of the major leagues are not set up as money makers for players. they are set up to give every person a chance to compete. sandbagging is employed to help increase chance for payouts and trips to vegas but those payments are perks of, not the goal of the league. again i say if you're concerned about getting paid on how well YOU PLAY, go for tourneys or do what a lot of guys on here seem to do.....go for action. i want to walk into a room and have people say that fat S.O.B. can play. not that i'm the best cheatin' low down dirty sandbaggin dirtbag they ever seen. that's the motivation to move up for me. the level of game i get offered has increased steadily and propotionately to the little number that follows the SL on my APA scoresheet. And in regards to two people at the same place of business and thier levels of pay - I started my own business because i was sick of watching people who kissed the bosses a** make more than me.

 

[DelaWho???]

My incentive to move up is: More pool for less money. As an SL4 I might only get to play 3 racks for my $6. As an sl5 I get at least 4 (unless I get whipped) and as an sl6/7 you get 5 racks. The better you are the less it costs to play.
I don't care about sl when I am playing I don't care how many racks you need to win, I have to get to 3 first. That's the only score I care about.

B

 

[Rak9up]

You guys missed my point I'm not try to get more money
for the upper players. I'm just suggesting a possible way to help curb sandbagging.
Plus like he said you can't stack a team anyway so its not like high skill levels will swoop in and get all the money.
I'm glad you guys have integrity you don't cheat and you try and move up.

What are the odds of finding dishonest people in a pool halls of all places? (just crazy talk)

Why would dishonest people be attracted to the highest paying amatuer tourney in the counrty (Ludacracy)

So you mean there might be people willing to "gamble" with their skill level to A get to Vegas or B win Money at Vegas (Ridiculous)

A sandbagger may never have to show his true speed depending on the opponent he plays and if he does a judge would have to be there to catch him.

Your right I'm wrong the APA is perfect as it is.

1.There are NO DISHONEST PEOPLE IN POOL HALLS WILLING TO GAMBLE WITH A SKILL LEVEL FOR LARGE MONITARY GAIN

2.The judges will catch all the sandbaggers or they will come to their senses and turn themselves in

3.Revamping the payout structure couldn't possibly help to curb cheating if cheaters were to receive less since poolplayers aren't motivated by money

Will you be voting for the Paris Hilton/Jessica Simpson ticket this year for president?

 

[baltimorebill]

Apa

Hate it. You can have a player rated the same for 5 years and if they win just one time in vegas, they get moved up. You do not have any home team advantage like any other sport out there, you must play at the green room in baltimore for local playoffs, sucks. You also have to go in sudden death if you go past a certain time at the green room playoffs, no other league does that to their players. You play all session long and did not have to go intop sudden death, makes no sense. You have to play at the green room many times before you even have a chance to get to vegas. Other pool leagues out there look out for the players, not the APA.

 

[Pushout]

From July.........