Wow. You asked the question, I simply gave you an answer. The speed is the one thing you have to vary from table to table and day to day, so it is the most skillful part of that break. You don't agree?
APA Masters Division
- Thread starter stlerdave
- Start date
Wow. You asked the question, I simply gave you an answer. The speed is the one thing you have to vary from table to table and day to day, so it is the most skillful part of that break. You don't agree?
Three times in a row is great. But that's not the same thing as making the shot 3 out of 10 times, like clockwork, on any decent table. Mike knows that too. If you think it is, you might wanna read up on the Gambler's fallacy.
Let's say someone IS skilled enough to master it. How would you like it if 8 ball tournaments went like this:
Race to 5.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Player A misses the 8 on the break but runs out anyway.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Does that sound even remotely fun or fair? You think this is the way 8 ball should be played?
Let's say someone IS skilled enough to master it. How would you like it if 8 ball tournaments went like this:
Race to 5.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Player A misses the 8 on the break but runs out anyway.
Player A wins - 8 off the break.
Does that sound even remotely fun or fair? You think this is the way 8 ball should be played?
Maniac...Pay no attention to whitewolf...he's just a pot stirrer and name caller. Just one clarification...sidespin on the CB has NO effect on the rack...it can only affect what the CB does, after it contacts a rail. Draw is what causes the CB not to scratch off the 2nd ball break.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Thanks. I am not clueless though. I am also not a pretender.
When I get more time, maybe next week, I will rack myself 100 racks of 8-ball and break hitting second ball, low & outside english just like "some" pros (I appreciate you not dropping names here :winkthat you know say you should. I'll report back on the statistics with a new thread. Keep in mind that I am not a weak breaker, have excellent break cues, Delta-13 racks, and a good table that racks tight. The statistics will NOT be skewed. I will break 50 times from each side. Besides hitting the second ball and using the recommended english, what else, short of rack manipulation, can be done that would be considered skillful?
Maniac (doesn't appreciate condescending talk from posters who's opinions differ from mine)
lorider...I wish it was wasn't 30 years ago, because I would have asked you to match me up with that gentleman, and I would happily bet him break after break, that he could not make the 8. That offer is open to ANYBODY...pro or not. If you think you, or somebody you know, has it down...contact me, because you can make a LOT of $$$ from me (of course you won't because nobody can make the 8 on the break with any kind of consistency). BTW, if this challenge is accepted, it will be on a neutral table, with a neutral racker...none of this "rack your own" BS. Bring it on people...
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
CreeDo...Hell will freeze over before that scenario happens...LOL
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Yeah, let's here it from someone who didn't know why the pros made so few 8 balls on the break in the IPT.
You wanna bet NOW Scott?!!! I tell you what. You drop by Champions in Frederick and I will put up $1,000 that Buck can make more 8 balls on the break in 100 racks than you can (a tie being not counted). Of course, here is the deal - you are not allowed to hit the 2nd ball first since you think this is not a skill. I imagine you will get all the bets you can handle. Bring lots of money. I can't wait!!
Umm.... That's not even close to the bet Scott is proposing.
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Hey Creedo,
How does this sound?
Break - Nothing down - Opponent misses - Run Out
Break - Eight Down
Break - Run Out - Eight Hung on break!
Break - Eight Down
Break - Run Out
One inning match. Incidentally, all from second ball break with my opponent racking. Guess he didn't know what the phrase "gaffe rack" means!
Is it fair? Don't think so. Was it legal according to the rules in place? Absolutely! Really felt sorry for my opponent. Got one shot. Still cost him $6 plus $2.50 in quarters. Would you have wanted to be my opponent? Can't imagine how he really felt. Still shook my hand. So much for the "classless" APA players.
Lyn
Cardiac, imagine if those 2 golden breaks weren't wins... and you had to run those 2 racks legitimately. Then he might have had 2 more chances at the table.
If he never did get those chances, because you shoot so strong you ran a complete 5-pack... hell, fair enough. I wouldn't complain. You earned it.
What I don't consider an "earned" win is making some circus shot off the break. Nobody deserves an automatic win for making a single shot. Even if it were a 100% skill shot.
It might be legal under the APA rules but I don't think it should be. We already know pool isn't fair because sometimes the opponent doesn't get to shoot. If pool already has that problem, why make it even worse by giving the breaker a lottery ticket for a free win?
If he never did get those chances, because you shoot so strong you ran a complete 5-pack... hell, fair enough. I wouldn't complain. You earned it.
What I don't consider an "earned" win is making some circus shot off the break. Nobody deserves an automatic win for making a single shot. Even if it were a 100% skill shot.
It might be legal under the APA rules but I don't think it should be. We already know pool isn't fair because sometimes the opponent doesn't get to shoot. If pool already has that problem, why make it even worse by giving the breaker a lottery ticket for a free win?
mr lee i have no idea who that gentleman was. i doubt if he is with us today as he was around 60 years old then. i do believe he said his name was jim but i a not sure. i practically lived in the bars shooting pool back then and had never seen him before or since that night. i knew practically everyone that shot pool for a 50 mile radius and had never seen him . we had no pool hall around back then, the closest pool hall was about 60 miles away in west palm beach, he might have been from there.
my girlfriend at the time said he was a road player. i was naieve about what a road player was and she explained to me. i asked what makes you think he was a road player. she said he came into the bar and sat in a corner doing nothing but watching the action on the 2 tables all night long. she said after i ran everyone off he comes up and challenges me and then played like he did, she said that is a road player if she ever saw one.
she claimed her brother was a road player and was killed in dayton ohio over a pool game so she quit playing pool after that. i finally convinced her one night to prove she could play, she kicked my ass 3 games in a row and then never picked up a stick again. she tried to teach me a few things that night but being the male chauvinist i was at the time i was not having a girl 10 years younger than teach me how to play pool.
i thought i was a pretty decent player at the time , hell i had been called a hustler back then several times. now i realize i was just what that old man told me that night i was. a young guy with a good eye for the game. he said if i ever learned english and cue ball control i would be dangerous at the table.
now i am pushing 60 and starting to learn english and cue ball control but my eyesight is fading. i just got back into pool 2 years ago after a 20 year hiatus doing the raising a family thing.
wish i had payed attention to him and my ex girlfriend back then, i would be a better player today. today i have the desire to be the best i can be but am limited to age and health issues. i do have days where i can give a 7 more than he can handle though.
Polishing your halo Scott :grin:?
For the record you have stirred the pot many more times than I have. Just look at your disrespectful tirade against Fast Larry, just to mention one.
Of course! Scott likes to act like a big gambler by betting only on dead locks. The only person who would accept Scott's bed would be God.
I offered a bet that will not only prove what I have been saying, but will also give this know-it-all a chance to put his money where his mouth is. Scott won't take this bet because he knows the odds are in my favor.........which only serves to prove my point that making the 8 on the break involves skill. When push comes to shove, Scott is blowing hot air and is stirring the pot as usual.:grin-square:
And let's not forget: if Mike Sigel says it involves skill, then it involves skill. Funny how some BCA instructors are always in disagreement with the pros........from looking at the cue ball last to drawing the ball with low-and-level to not dropping your shoulder.
Of course! Scott likes to act like a big gambler by betting only on dead locks. The only person who would accept Scott's bed would be God.
I offered a bet that will not only prove what I have been saying, but will also give this know-it-all a chance to put his money where his mouth is. Scott won't take this bet because he knows the odds are in my favor.........which only serves to prove my point that making the 8 on the break involves skill. When push comes to shove, Scott is blowing hot air and is stirring the pot as usual.:grin-square:
And let's not forget: if Mike Sigel says it involves skill, then it involves skill. Funny how some BCA instructors are always in disagreement with the pros........from looking at the cue ball last to drawing the ball with low-and-level to not dropping your shoulder.
I see your angle but still, your bet is one where your 'action' is on the wrong said of the debate. ie If he doesn't think it's a skill, then obviously he's not going to gamble on his side requiring that skill to win. Best case is your asking to a bet on a coin toss.
A better bet would be money on an 8 on the break precentage above what the 'average' is according to known stats (pretty easy to establish).
Then you might get some action. :wink:
Ray...Disrespectful tirade? LMAO FL does more to himself than anyone could possibly do to him. I've known Larry far longer than you, and most of the regulars here have a clear understanding of who he is, and how he acts. Truthfully I feel sorry for the guy. He has tremendous knowledge of the history of the game. His teaching and playing ability has always been suspect. It's just a shame that he cannot interact socially here (and other pool sites...other than his own) without making an ass of himself...which is why he is banned everywhere.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com